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When I have multiple hatcheries in one control group, and I press that control group it doesn't cycle through the hatcheries. What am I doing wrong? Here's an example of what I do.
Select Hatchery, Ctrl + 1. Then, select another Hatchery, hold Shift, and press 1. I can see they're both in the same group now. But when I click 1 like a madman it won't cycle through them it just centers on the one that I can see on my screen.
Larva inject What's the best way to larva inject mid and late game when you have multiple hatcheries?
I'd just like some general advice on how I should approach the game as a new Zerg player. Currently I'm just laddering like never before trying to improve my play and I also watch livestreams occasionally.
Sorry if this post is kinda messy and any advice/help I get is very appreciated!
On September 30 2012 01:18 Dragnmn wrote: It's not supposed to cycle through it, you can cycle through hatcheries with Backspace. The control group simply selects them all and if double tapped centres on the closest one.
This. Your hotkey setup seems correct, It's not different than grid so why not ? Thing is you need to get comfortable with it. If so then don't stop using it, or change slightly if you feel there are some that are bothering you. There are not really any best methods for injecting queens afaik. I've tried a lot of them and so far i like the 6789 queens the most because usually you don't want too many queens, and you can always get two of them on one hotkey for 2 close hatcheries. It's all about preference, and this one gives me the most controls over all of them. But it's definitely not faster than the backspace's method. So yeah, there are no best answers. You gotta try them out yourself.
Haven't played in a while, forgot a lot of my old builds (timings when to build x). I see stephano/idra using a pool opening into hatch, anyone know the exact food placements till gas is put down?
At what time should I start preparing for an all-in if they haven't taken a thid?
And I have a judgment question for ZVP - someone mentioned using baneling busts to punish gateway expands. (Or something like that.)
I've been experimenting with busts in that MU in general. And I was wondering what are some things you take into consideration when thinking about busting a toss?
On September 30 2012 09:52 AndySCWilson wrote: I have some timing questions for ZVT.
Say you're 7min Ol sees 100% bio.
At what time should I start preparing for an all-in if they haven't taken a thid?
And I have a judgment question for ZVP - someone mentioned using baneling busts to punish gateway expands. (Or something like that.)
I've been experimenting with busts in that MU in general. And I was wondering what are some things you take into consideration when thinking about busting a toss?
tyty
(low-masters Zerg)
If you make it all the way to 7 mins and the Terran was opening into his natural, you sort of prepare for them in the same manner. If your overlord simply scouts a ton of rax going up (I mean like 4-5 or more), you have around 1 game minute to prepare some defenses. I'm not given much info on your build you're performing, but if you're using say a rather "normal" 6+ queen fast third gasless opening, this means you'll have a third base up, but should seriously consider not droning it up at all until you deal with the developing Terran army.
The thing about Terrans is that a lot of them play strangely. There's just SO MUCH freedom they have with their tech and expansions. He might just keep the third OC in his base for mules or extra worker production instead of using it to expo immediately. Either that or he may use it as his army is moving out. In both cases though, you should rely on sacing lings or changelings to see how large his army is becoming and make a corresponding amount of banes (overmaking banes can kill you going into lair tech units).
About your other question, I have far less experience busting Protosses. I'm much more inclined to macro build into boring lategame split-map BL/festor/corruptor/spinewall because I consider my lategame to be fairly strong. The only times I've ever executed busts were when I was scouting the Protoss bases for the second time (11-12 minutes) to see what his follow-up choices to taking a third were so my army would be properly set up to deal with his. If I see that his army is not split or that his reactions are slow (easy to do with microing a few lings into expos), I would look into aggressive options like festor ling drops on all 3 mineral lines.
If you're referring to some sort of bane bust after going a normal opening, I'm unaware of such builds. The only good busts I know for vs P are the Leenock 10rr and the Zenio 3 base bane/ling all-in. In those builds, you make the decision very early you're just going to bust them after seeing a variation of FE rather than really basing it on info gathered over time.
Low masters NA, yet to be promoted to masters in EU but im playing low/mid masters from last season: http://drop.sc/259462
I dont want your advice on anything but for the late game. How the fuck did I lose that? I know I kept donating infestors because I didnt have burrow for the longest time, and I forgot 3/3 but God damnit does terran have unit retention. Anyway, criticize away.
I don't know where to look this up. I've searched for Youtube vids but I can't seem to find one that shows what I'm looking for.
I'm a Silver Zerg and was hoping you guys can help me on this. So essentially I want to know how to drone stack and attack Zerglings. I honestly hate losing to 6, 7, 8-poolers. What I do to stack is click on a mineral that is sandwiched by 2 other minerals (top and bottom but sticking a bit out so the drones can only stack on top of one tile). Then once the drones stack, am I supposed to just press "attack" and then click on the ground or do I click on each individual Zergling?
The drones tend to split up after the attack command but then I restack and then do the cycle over again. However, I still end up losing too many drones and don't kill the Zerglings fast enough. Can someone please give me a step-by-step process on what you do? Thanks so much in advanced.
On September 30 2012 15:36 learning88 wrote: I don't know where to look this up. I've searched for Youtube vids but I can't seem to find one that shows what I'm looking for.
I'm a Silver Zerg and was hoping you guys can help me on this. So essentially I want to know how to drone stack and attack Zerglings. I honestly hate losing to 6, 7, 8-poolers. What I do to stack is click on a mineral that is sandwiched by 2 other minerals (top and bottom but sticking a bit out so the drones can only stack on top of one tile). Then once the drones stack, am I supposed to just press "attack" and then click on the ground or do I click on each individual Zergling?
The drones tend to split up after the attack command but then I restack and then do the cycle over again. However, I still end up losing too many drones and don't kill the Zerglings fast enough. Can someone please give me a step-by-step process on what you do? Thanks so much in advanced.
Select all your drones, then spam rightclick onto the furthest mineral (or whatever one you choose). When the zerglings get close, do the same thing but for the furthest away mineral. That will cause your drones to not stack too much, and they will also walk straight through zerglings. When your drones then are somewhere ontop of the zerglings, you just a-move and they should surround the zerglings.
Does anyone know IdrAs buildorder (somewhat) when he goes early mutas ZvZ? It seems like a really strong build, but i can never seem to get the right timings myself.
What im mainly looking for is when to take lair, 4 gasses, 3rd hatch, etc.
ZvZ is just a really annoying matchup and mutas seem really, really good..
On September 30 2012 22:16 tehcaekftw wrote: Does anyone know IdrAs buildorder (somewhat) when he goes early mutas ZvZ? It seems like a really strong build, but i can never seem to get the right timings myself.
What im mainly looking for is when to take lair, 4 gasses, 3rd hatch, etc.
ZvZ is just a really annoying matchup and mutas seem really, really good..
I believe his build is something along these lines: 15 hatch, 15 pool 17 gas, speedling, next 100 gas lair + rest of the 3 gases, next 50 gas baneling nest. (Sometimes Baneling nest before Lair) few defensive banes if needed ,drone away. Spire!
Guys in ZvP whats the downright basics to holding the 10 minute all in with toss... it always seems to beat me no matter how many times I scout it and believe to react properly... any help?
On October 01 2012 00:37 tehcaekftw wrote: That sounds like a REALLY early lair, even if baneling nest before lair.. you know timings of this?
Yeah lol, I wouldn't recommend. I mean, if you scout he's actually droning his natural (unlike 99% of my ladder opponents), then it's safe and great, however what I typically do when I go 2 base muta (I'm not IdrA, but I'm top diamond and not a complete noob):
-15 hatch, 17 gas, 17 pool, but any hatch before gas opener works (leave 3 guys in gas, take out 1 if you want/scout gas after hatch from opponent) -@100% pool, speed, queen x2 -@50 gas, baneling nest, spine crawler -@100% baneling nest, morph 4 banes if you suspect ANY aggression -@100 gas, lair, take second gas -@50% lair, double gas again. This could probably be earlier if you had to make those 4 banes -@100% lair, spire.
Third timing: Not sure about this. Traditionally, you need to use mass spines to defend against roach/ling all-ins, but I'm really starting to doubt this. IMO, take a third ~55-60 supply, along with an evo to get +1 ranged. The banes should keep you safe from ling/bane timings, worst case scenario is you sac the third but he sacs his economy to do that so you aren't behind.
If your third is denied (through roach/ling all-in, or ling/bane, whatever), then I take it as soon as mutas pop. I then usually drone super hard, and get a roach warren, hydra den, and second evo. I can usually deny his third with the ~10 mutas (STOP AT 10!), don't even go for drone kills. If you can deny his third until he gets lair tech out (or until you've saturated yours), you've won the game. I then like to go for a 2/1 roach-hydra timing at 170 food, usually wins the game right there. My income will be so much higher than his for so long that there's nothing he can do.
Unfortunately, I've never played against players who use roach/queen to secure their third. 10 mutas got nothing on 4 queens with transfuse, especially with creep he can set up spores. Probably will have to play a more harass-centric style with multi-pronged muta/ling aggression, which is OK but not my favourite.
You can transition into roach/infestor instead of roach/hydra, but this is a more defensive move. Hydras punish infestors pretty well; roach/hydra is decent against IT spam, split is good against fungals, and have you ever seen neural in ZvZ? I haven't. You'll have so much more than him that roach/hydra 2/1 timing is a great way to end the game. It's not even all-in; you've already saturated your 3 bases.
On October 01 2012 00:47 Xonix wrote: Guys in ZvP whats the downright basics to holding the 10 minute all in with toss... it always seems to beat me no matter how many times I scout it and believe to react properly... any help?
What type of all-in? Sentry/immortal? 7gate +2 blink? A really late naked 7gate?
[QUOTE]On October 01 2012 00:47 Mavvie wrote: [QUOTE]On October 01 2012 00:37 tehcaekftw wrote: post about IdrA style mutas zvz.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, this is the kind of post i've been waiting for so long about this.
Hopefully this cleared up a bunch of stuff about this and hopefully it'll work good.. many times i just get rolled due to them either droning a lot so i am behind, or they go mutas or roach all-in or something.. thanks.
On October 01 2012 00:47 Xonix wrote: Guys in ZvP whats the downright basics to holding the 10 minute all in with toss... it always seems to beat me no matter how many times I scout it and believe to react properly... any help?
What type of all-in? Sentry/immortal? 7gate +2 blink? A really late naked 7gate?
well I'm just wondering of the basic reaction to any of those early ones... scout and then stop droning and go into mass unit pumping?
On October 01 2012 00:37 tehcaekftw wrote: post about IdrA style mutas zvz.
Thanks, this is the kind of post i've been waiting for so long about this.
Hopefully this cleared up a bunch of stuff about this and hopefully it'll work good.. many times i just get rolled due to them either droning a lot so i am behind, or they go mutas or roach all-in or something.. thanks.
No problem ^^
Yeah, I'm still not sure how to play ZvZ. Hell, even Belial wasn't. If you can secure a 3hatch before lair, in theory you have a huge macro advantage. However, against 2 base play you can't afford to drone....until they drone their third, so you're behind
So I just stick to 2 base muta. It can't hurt to have 3 spines once you're saturated, and if you want I can show you a few replays of me doing the style. I wouldn't call it idra's style, iirc darkforce made it popular recently?
On October 01 2012 00:47 Xonix wrote: Guys in ZvP whats the downright basics to holding the 10 minute all in with toss... it always seems to beat me no matter how many times I scout it and believe to react properly... any help?
What type of all-in? Sentry/immortal? 7gate +2 blink? A really late naked 7gate?
well I'm just wondering of the basic reaction to any of those early ones... scout and then stop droning and go into mass unit pumping?
Generally against non-8:00 attacks you should drone up your third and grab an ~8:30 macro hatch. You want ~20 roaches and all the rest lings. I even recommend baseracing against sentry/immortal. Only 4 gas against 2 base toss
On September 30 2012 12:02 whatevername wrote: Low masters NA, yet to be promoted to masters in EU but im playing low/mid masters from last season: http://drop.sc/259462
I dont want your advice on anything but for the late game. How the fuck did I lose that? I know I kept donating infestors because I didnt have burrow for the longest time, and I forgot 3/3 but God damnit does terran have unit retention. Anyway, criticize away.
I understand you want criticism only on your lategame but this would be a very incomplete picture of why you lost which is why you're asking us to look at this to begin with. I will simply put things in a bullet format and I'll let you choose if you even want to read the "midgame" section.
Early Game: Looks fine as most players' early game does.
Mid-Game:
-I don't know if you were going for some strange variation of 2 hatch mutas, but you didn't take a third hatch until 8 minutes. That's pretty late in modern ZvT flow.
-You get a very early bane speed even though it appears the focus of your gas is supposed to be into mutalisks. Might want to consider changing this timing.
-9:17 his first MM moveout kills your tower scout. You need to watch your tower control scouts and move them right before he gets there and then shift move it in a pattern so it'll come right back after a few seconds.
-That same push gets your 2nd scout without any reaction too. There's no unit response from you at all. Did you see it happening?
-The lack of reaction at all caused you to lose your third as well as 2 mutas (died as they popped). You then proceed to attack into a mineral line and lose a LOT of your stuff. You're left with a tiny 5 mutalisk force which isn't enough to do anything.
-I don't know why but you put a hatchery at one of the "normal 4th locations" waaaaaay off center. Not something I'd expect to see in masters.
-Afterwards, you start going for mass mutas and +1 air attack. While this is viable, you did not use your mutas very well. You attack into his main and nat and somehow completely miss his third going up. While you did cause significant damage to his army there, he chased you away with just 10 marines. 18 mutas should not be running from 10 marines. You could have very easily won it right here I feel.
-A series of very poor micro decisions with your muta/bane/ling causes you to have to run when you should've been able to easily crush him. I'll let you figure this out since its pretty obvious while watching the rep.
-UPGRADES: Your +1 melee attack literally starts when his +2/+2 is just 50 seconds from being completed for his army.
-TECH: Your infestor pit isn't even down until 17:19. This is extremely late even with muta/ling/bane being your midgame choice (which is very gas-heavy). Even after your pit is placed extremely late, it takes you until 18:50 to start your infestor energy upgrade.
-Hive at 19:00 doesn't help either when you're about to face 3/3 Bio army.
-Around 20 minutes you once again manage to kill just about the entire army of Terran and due to lack of multi-tasking, you completely miss being able to kill him.
Lategame: Somehow, you actually manage to keep Terran mostly on 3 base until this point. You have favorable positioning and you have many more expos. However due to that really bad hatch placement on your left base, you can't really use it for anything other than an off-place macro hatch. I'd have to consider you ahead economically most of the game although going into lategame you're going to face serious issues supporting a strong T3 army composition.
-Absolutely no aggression: After the battle over at the left, you pop ultras and then completely neglect to use them. You had a big opening where you could've denied his 4th yet again effectively keeping him on 1 base economy. You must multi-task and keep your army constantly poking to see if there's an opportunity to do damage.
-27:20 your positioning of your BLs in this engagement is really bad. BLs are a siege unit. You need to keep them behind other potential damage shields (ultras in this case) in order to keep them alive and firing off as much as possible.
-Post-30-minutes: The mistakes here all stemmed from the extremely bad midgame decisions and tech choices. For example at the end of the game, you have 3 ultras and 20 lings morphing when he had next to nothing left. You should've been able to end the game with those forces but you left for some reason.
-Your 30+ minute upgrades were 2/2 vs his 3/3. This certainly didn't help you. -You once again back off after killing his fourth and completely miss a timing where you could've killed him
Summary: You want to focus on lategame, but take it from me, your problems are in your midgame. I don't know what build or style you were intending to go, but that's not how you do whatever it was you wanted. Econ was almost always on par or slightly lower than his and his macro wasn't even good. His decisions were equally as terrible and his expansion timings were extremely late. His spending wasn't fantastic and he proceeds to supply block himself at several points for very long periods of time. One example of this is 13:29 T supply caps himself and doesn't even stop being blocked until 17:00. Your opponent was not very good, but your mistakes in the midgame cost you far more than it cost him. Even though you fixed your position several times, your decision making was worse than his and cost you at least 3 solid opportunities to flat-out kill him and end it.
EPT
