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probably there is a topic, or post about it somewhere, but i can't find it, sry
im a casual player, i play like once a week (about 8 games), so trying to go on to much, just don't works for me, and i end up not having fun, with is all i do care for...
i use to be a diamond (quit playing for like 8 months, I'm plat now, I'm ok with that! :p), like a year ago... so, my mechanics are rusty but works kinda ok for me, it know my biggest problems comes from decision making, micro, engagement, choosing battles, etc.
I'm doing ONE basic plan vs all the 3 matches...
pool > hatch > defend or expand again (depend on opponent) > roaches > light pushes > infestor or corruptor or both (depend on opp) > 4 bases > brood lords > 5, 6 bases > macro > whatever xD
usually i win by starving opps
now, this is working quite good against protoss and zerg (some times i loose, some times i win, always have fun  )
its not working at all against terran... i don't want to change the plan (just because i can't handle doing to many diferents things playing so little), my biggest issue are siege lines, a year ago, i use to deal with them by doing mutta harras, trying to connect some nice bane hits, and avoiding his army most of the time... i can't do that with this composition.
can someone give me some tips about to how to deal with siege lines?, i tried casting IT with borrowed infestors, but it seems i lack the apm... I'm also stating to think maybe the best plan for me, its to do some crazy all in, and if i loose i loose, and hope next match is zerg or protoss
also, some general tips to get this game plan to work vs terran, could be really cool
thanks!!
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On September 29 2012 06:53 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +4. either get fast infestors but be prepared to lose your 3rd: wall off will help defend at least 2 bases until your infestors are out. even if you lose your 3rd to his all in you will be ahead in tech.
OR: dont get superfast infestors while going 3rd base. you cant get enough roaches queens and spores AND infestors since you wont have enough drones to support both mineral and gas income. roach queen spore is basically safe vs everything he can throw at you from 2 base so try to get minerals over gas first. you will overcome his gas income fast because you have access to 5. and 6. gas that he wont. think 3 gas will do it until you are safe. if you go for roaches i prefer going roach queen spore and go for delayed infestors since i dont like going for fast 3rd and fast infestors and gambling on whether he attacks me or not. When you delay the infestors, when do you actually start them? When you saturate the third? Or is some other trigger?
there is a chance I'm to big of a noob here to answer this, but i just give my opinion lol xD
i almost never get infestor before 3 bases (except some crazy shit happened on early game). depends a lot on opponent build if you get them right away or wait till saturated... scout the front, make his army show up, if you see him gearing for a big attack get one or two infestor, if you don't... wait xD
if you are dealing muta, small numbers are best to deal of with queen, spores, and big numbers of muta, with queen, spores, and just 2 or 3 infestor... you really almost never need big numbers of infestors, they turn battle tides in your favor, but are the core units that win games (and brood lords/ultras, lol)
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On September 29 2012 06:53 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +4. either get fast infestors but be prepared to lose your 3rd: wall off will help defend at least 2 bases until your infestors are out. even if you lose your 3rd to his all in you will be ahead in tech.
OR: dont get superfast infestors while going 3rd base. you cant get enough roaches queens and spores AND infestors since you wont have enough drones to support both mineral and gas income. roach queen spore is basically safe vs everything he can throw at you from 2 base so try to get minerals over gas first. you will overcome his gas income fast because you have access to 5. and 6. gas that he wont. think 3 gas will do it until you are safe. if you go for roaches i prefer going roach queen spore and go for delayed infestors since i dont like going for fast 3rd and fast infestors and gambling on whether he attacks me or not. When you delay the infestors, when do you actually start them? When you saturate the third? Or is some other trigger?
as soon as i scoutet his build and feel safe enough. saturate 3rd also when feeling safe enough to do so. for example you deflected his mutas and have enough roaches to defend vs ling runbys. then its time to take all gases and 1-2 rounds of drones.
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On September 29 2012 05:06 Defenestrator wrote:
My main concern is defending/flanking the 3rd vs 2-base allins (especially zvp). The problem here is that usually when these timings hit, I'm in drone mode until fairly late, so I don't have a tremendous amount of units out to position for a flank, and flanking from the alley at the 3rd seems pretty tough. On other maps this tends not to be as much of a problem since it's easier to flank.
Also, where do you first spread your creep? Is it towards the alley at the 3rd or down the ramp of the 3rd?
It would help if you could clarify which timing you're being hit with. Obviously, the timings on drone mode are very dependent on what toss is doing to you. This can be done by scouting his gas around 6:30-7:30, and sacking your overlord into the main at 7:30. These gas timings indicate what he's doing, making units vs drones is your decision from there.
Very generally, drone mode is halted around 8:30 (hence the importance of how many drones you can fit by 8:00) and assuming you don't see a 3rd/scouting indicates aggression, you should be massing roach/ling to deal with whatever he's doing.
To address the creep, I like getting 4 queens instead of the traditional three. I like doing so because it makes it easier to handle poking zealots/stalkers and stargate openings are easier to deal with. That and the additional creep you gain.
After you connect the natural to the third, I like going across into the alley to prevent extremely close proxy. Also, any active tumors by the natural can swing down the ramp and then towards the 4th. This assumes you aren't going to be roach aggressive, because his timing will put you in a defensive posture, and if you are roach aggressive then expand creep towards his base. If you suspect he's going to abuse the alleyway, all you can really do is cut off reinforcements and spine up. Again, engaging before he's able to mass up and snowball out of control is really the key to make sure this doesn't happen.
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Is there any good reason to go 14 pool speed in modern zvz? I normally open 15 pool but I really dont like that early early game passiveness.
As an addition to that question, if 14 has validity, how do I respond to a 15 pool with it? Can I really be aggressive [like you can with 14p vs 14p] and abuse my earlier speed, or?
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I have been taking a break from sc2 for a couple months and I am not sure how the metagame has changed. I used to do the stephano roach max push in protoss, muta/ling/bling into infester brolord in ZvT and 15h 15p 15g into defensive banelings in ZvZ. What are the current standards for each matchup?
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On September 29 2012 10:06 whatevername wrote:
Is there any good reason to go 14 pool speed in modern zvz? I normally open 15 pool but I really dont like that early early game passiveness.
As an addition to that question, if 14 has validity, how do I respond to a 15 pool with it? Can I really be aggressive [like you can with 14p vs 14p] and abuse my earlier speed, or?
I dont get your second statement but 14/14 speed just cant do damage even against a 15 hatch, let alone a 10-15 pool. So the only thing you gain from doing it is early map control (which you cant abuse) and safety (which you dont need versus an expando build).
My advice - just learn to 15 hatch, and really analyze those replays when you lose to a bust. Figure it out, and youll get to the midgame in no time
On September 29 2012 10:32 ixi.genocide wrote:
I have been taking a break from sc2 for a couple months and I am not sure how the metagame has changed. I used to do the stephano roach max push in protoss, muta/ling/bling into infester brolord in ZvT and 15h 15p 15g into defensive banelings in ZvZ. What are the current standards for each matchup?
Belials ZVP and ZVT guides should teach you the standard meta, search it up
ZVZ is more of a mix up match up, where the most macro orientated build is a 15 hatch 15 gas 15pool into getting drone saturation, following into various styles. So youll have to tell me what style in zvz youl like best
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If I go 14p and so does the other guy, I can basically just constantly engage him with zerglings. Its very micro based/quick and the aggression isnt necessarily all in, thats what I meant. Can I apply similar zergling pressure to a 15 pool or will it simply be shut down so hard, or I outpaced so much in macro, that it would constitute just a shitty zergling all in.
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How do you counter photon cannon rush?
I tried building spawning pool before hatch but the Protoss user will simply build 2~3 pylons and a couple (or more) cannons at a time... I'm in plat and can't believe this is happening.... some one help me with this crap load of cannon cheese!
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You literally just pull drones and target fire the cannons. 3 drones a cannon and it will die before it spawns. Certain maps cannons can be placed such that not 3 drones can target the cannon, you just have to put a drone in that position to block after you see the pylon go down. If he invests that much, defend and you win.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 11:56 Monsyphon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 10:06 whatevername wrote:
Is there any good reason to go 14 pool speed in modern zvz? I normally open 15 pool but I really dont like that early early game passiveness.
As an addition to that question, if 14 has validity, how do I respond to a 15 pool with it? Can I really be aggressive [like you can with 14p vs 14p] and abuse my earlier speed, or? I dont get your second statement but 14/14 speed just cant do damage even against a 15 hatch, let alone a 10-15 pool. So the only thing you gain from doing it is early map control (which you cant abuse) and safety (which you dont need versus an expando build). My advice - just learn to 15 hatch, and really analyze those replays when you lose to a bust. Figure it out, and youll get to the midgame in no time Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 10:32 ixi.genocide wrote:
I have been taking a break from sc2 for a couple months and I am not sure how the metagame has changed. I used to do the stephano roach max push in protoss, muta/ling/bling into infester brolord in ZvT and 15h 15p 15g into defensive banelings in ZvZ. What are the current standards for each matchup?
Belials ZVP and ZVT guides should teach you the standard meta, search it up ZVZ is more of a mix up match up, where the most macro orientated build is a 15 hatch 15 gas 15pool into getting drone saturation, following into various styles. So youll have to tell me what style in zvz youl like best
I enjoy a passive play style in the starting into multi pronged aggression using infesters and roaches. What would you suggest?
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On September 29 2012 08:43 mati wrote:probably there is a topic, or post about it somewhere, but i can't find it, sry im a casual player, i play like once a week (about 8 games), so trying to go on to much, just don't works for me, and i end up not having fun, with is all i do care for... i use to be a diamond (quit playing for like 8 months, I'm plat now, I'm ok with that! :p), like a year ago... so, my mechanics are rusty but works kinda ok for me, it know my biggest problems comes from decision making, micro, engagement, choosing battles, etc. I'm doing ONE basic plan vs all the 3 matches... pool > hatch > defend or expand again (depend on opponent) > roaches > light pushes > infestor or corruptor or both (depend on opp) > 4 bases > brood lords > 5, 6 bases > macro > whatever xD usually i win by starving opps now, this is working quite good against protoss and zerg (some times i loose, some times i win, always have fun ) its not working at all against terran... i don't want to change the plan (just because i can't handle doing to many diferents things playing so little), my biggest issue are siege lines, a year ago, i use to deal with them by doing mutta harras, trying to connect some nice bane hits, and avoiding his army most of the time... i can't do that with this composition. can someone give me some tips about to how to deal with siege lines?, i tried casting IT with borrowed infestors, but it seems i lack the apm... I'm also stating to think maybe the best plan for me, its to do some crazy all in, and if i loose i loose, and hope next match is zerg or protoss also, some general tips to get this game plan to work vs terran, could be really cool thanks!!
Go 15H 16P in ZvT. It's actually safer than pool first, because the creep of the hatchery prevents bunkers from being built closeby. Also, don't go roaches in ZvT unless the terran is going mech. I also would suggest just going roach-hydra-infestor in ZvZ, unless you're in really really lategame.
On September 29 2012 12:48 wjdzm wrote:
How do you counter photon cannon rush?
I tried building spawning pool before hatch but the Protoss user will simply build 2~3 pylons and a couple (or more) cannons at a time... I'm in plat and can't believe this is happening.... some one help me with this crap load of cannon cheese!
Vs toss you (generally) go for pool first. I usually do 14P 15-16H. This will deal with cannon rushes just fine. Be sure to place your 2nd overlord over your natural to spot for pylons/cannons being built! Pull some drones when he does, until you have lings out. Building many cannons/pylons will put the toss so far behind, when you kill them off (or just run past them) he won't have anything to defend with at home.
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On September 29 2012 12:11 whatevername wrote:
If I go 14p and so does the other guy, I can basically just constantly engage him with zerglings. Its very micro based/quick and the aggression isnt necessarily all in, thats what I meant. Can I apply similar zergling pressure to a 15 pool or will it simply be shut down so hard, or I outpaced so much in macro, that it would constitute just a shitty zergling all in.
If you dont kill any drones or queens, then you're behind slighty because you made a ton of zerglings, while he only had to make defensive ones and he still has a natural,more drones, etc
On September 29 2012 14:27 ixi.genocide wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 11:56 Monsyphon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 10:06 whatevername wrote:
Is there any good reason to go 14 pool speed in modern zvz? I normally open 15 pool but I really dont like that early early game passiveness.
As an addition to that question, if 14 has validity, how do I respond to a 15 pool with it? Can I really be aggressive [like you can with 14p vs 14p] and abuse my earlier speed, or? I dont get your second statement but 14/14 speed just cant do damage even against a 15 hatch, let alone a 10-15 pool. So the only thing you gain from doing it is early map control (which you cant abuse) and safety (which you dont need versus an expando build). My advice - just learn to 15 hatch, and really analyze those replays when you lose to a bust. Figure it out, and youll get to the midgame in no time Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 10:32 ixi.genocide wrote:
I have been taking a break from sc2 for a couple months and I am not sure how the metagame has changed. I used to do the stephano roach max push in protoss, muta/ling/bling into infester brolord in ZvT and 15h 15p 15g into defensive banelings in ZvZ. What are the current standards for each matchup?
Belials ZVP and ZVT guides should teach you the standard meta, search it up ZVZ is more of a mix up match up, where the most macro orientated build is a 15 hatch 15 gas 15pool into getting drone saturation, following into various styles. So youll have to tell me what style in zvz youl like best I enjoy a passive play style in the starting into multi pronged aggression using infesters and roaches. What would you suggest?
I would try 15hatch,15gas,15 pool. Pull a drone off gas @52, OV 17, speed and a banes nest when you get the gas for each, and in that order. Make a spine around 25+ supply, and 4 banes. That protects you against most aggresion in the early game, assuming you make reactive lings.
After that i would go 2 base roach infestor, getting burrow immediately and roach burrow when youre safe. I dont play too much 2base roach.infestor so i dont know the exact timings, youll have to ask again for those
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I'm new to SC2 (and rts in general) and so far my play hasn't been that good, any advice for a new player?
Hotkeys:
+ Show Spoiler +Larva: Q= (Morph into) Drone W= Zergling E= Roach R= Hydra
A= Overlord S= Muta D= Corruptor F= Infestor G = Ultra
Hatchery/Lair/Hive hotkeys
Q= Select Larva W= Produce Queen
A= Overlord Speed Upgrade S= Overlord Transport Upgrade
Z= Mutate into Lair/Hive
I also rebound backspace to Caps Lock. Everything else is default. Do my hotkeys look alright? Anything I'm missing?
Graphics and gameplay:
+ Show Spoiler +I play with everything on low/off except Textures which I have on high. I play on the lowest possible resolution which for me is 1024 x something.
I have the "always display health bars" feature selected as well as always display grid.
Here are some issues I'm having:
+ Show Spoiler +When I have multiple hatcheries in one control group, and I press that control group it doesn't cycle through the hatcheries. What am I doing wrong? Here's an example of what I do.
Select Hatchery, Ctrl + 1.
Then, select another Hatchery, hold Shift, and press 1. I can see they're both in the same group now. But when I click 1 like a madman it won't cycle through them it just centers on the one that I can see on my screen.
Larva inject
What's the best way to larva inject mid and late game when you have multiple hatcheries?
I'd just like some general advice on how I should approach the game as a new Zerg player. Currently I'm just laddering like never before trying to improve my play and I also watch livestreams occasionally.
Sorry if this post is kinda messy and any advice/help I get is very appreciated!
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It's not supposed to cycle through it, you can cycle through hatcheries with Backspace. The control group simply selects them all and if double tapped centres on the closest one.
For the rest of your questions, I'm not the best one to answer it since I use heavily customised hotkeys (Darkgrid, intending to switch to TheCore).
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Hi iam a top plat zerg player and i have started to reach diamond mmr and iam notecing that many protoss players will do sentry/imortal all ins/pushes so iam woundering what to do vs that cause i mess upp when he starts to throw down forcefields and iam not used to players who can throw down decent forcefields. Sorry for my poor English and thanks if you can help me .
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On September 30 2012 01:22 Ezneralc wrote:Hi iam a top plat zerg player and i have started to reach diamond mmr and iam notecing that many protoss players will do sentry/imortal all ins/pushes so iam woundering what to do vs that cause i mess upp when he starts to throw down forcefields and iam not used to players who can throw down decent forcefields. Sorry for my poor English and thanks if you can help me .
Haha, it's a terribly powerful all-in, especially on maps like cloud kingdom.
I actually wrote a guide on defending it, using methods that's been proven to work by top level players:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=360647
It's also covered in Belial's ZvP Guide (he's temp banned for a while though  ) :
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320038
Basically you can either:
1) Outpower it with roach/ling, using flanks and engaging in open areas
2) Baserace with roach/ling, just move out when he moves out, avoid his army, mass spines in your natural and walk into his base
3) Baserace with muta/ling: same as above, you just use mutas instead of roaches to break down his wall
I believe there's replays on it in both the above guides, as well as much more in-depth explanations.
Also, while people in diamond may have good forcefields, most can't execute it to save their lives. I once played a guy who moved out at 11:00...
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Ok thanks have read the guides and gonna try practice this at the ladder tanks
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hi helpfulzergs,
http://drop.sc/259334
wondering what if anything I could have done in this game.
I was mostly ok dealing with the harass in midgame but once I reached hive tech I was just feeling completely helpless.
once he completed his air switch in the late game I seriously had no idea what I should even be trying to do. engage his air and lose my army? sacrifice the air game and go for a big ground attack? base trade with the brood lords I have?
this kind of thing is why I usually go for a muta/bane late game instead of infestor/brood lord... basically impossible to defend harass after hive tech when choosing brood lord tech
any suggestions even vague ones welcome!
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What the hell do I do upon scouting 10/11 pool speedling/bane all-in?
Replay:
http://drop.sc/259360
I thought I was perfectly set up to defend; I was getting my own speed, I had a queen, I had a drone lead. He attacks with a fuckload of ling/bane before I get my own bane nest up, I had no minerals to buy more queens/lings/drones, honestly not sure what I should've done differently.
Do I have to leave 2 in gas when I scout a really fast pool-gas build to get a faster bane nest? Do I need to spread creep to my ramp so I can set up defensively with spine/queen/ling?
Excuse the BM at the end, it was meant to be humourous, not offensive.
Edit: I also lost to an 11gate zealot pressure into nexus................. what is the right reaction to that? I've never played against either of these builds before...
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EPT
