The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 355

On August 18 2012 07:21 tehcaekftw wrote:


What doesnt make sense?

I have Create Location Hotkey as CTRL+SHIFT+ Q,W,E,R,A,S,D,F and Go to Location Hotkey as Alt+Q,W,E,R etc. and Inject as F

So it's basically when I go inject Alt+Q>inject Alt W> inject Alt E Inject....

On August 18 2012 08:13 Mavvie wrote:

Honestly, infestor broodlord with better micro than the opponent. Fungal locks down ravens, corruptors absorb a ton of viking fire, thors are pretty useless except for their splash. If it's 0/0 vs 0/0, corruptors only take 2 (lol oh no) damage per attack. They are OK at denying infestors, but tanks work way better.

http://drop.sc/239891

Here's a replay where I lost a fuckton of drones to hellions, and that's the only reason I lost. Engagements were pretty good except for losing the infestors. I thought his army was way bigger, with a flock of vikings.

Actually, here's some good stuff to note:

When engaging, split EVERYTHING. Your army is unbeatable (unlike in ZvP, where an even fight you'll lose if you split), so there's no reason a seeker missile should hit more than one unit. I think in the first engagement, his ravens caught me by surprise, so I lost a TON of units to it. Afterwords I split my units, focused a few ravens down, fungalled vikings, and lost because I had to make 215+ drones and never had more than 60 alive at a time.

If he has tanks, try to lure him away from them. If his thors are in range of the tanks but your infestors aren't, GO FOR IT. The splash will mash all the thors into oblivion, and then it's corruptors vs vikings and broodlords vs tanks.

Tl;dr
-Split units
-Spines (LOTS) to kill hellions super fast
-Infestor/corruptor/broodlord works fine

On August 18 2012 09:25 Belial88 wrote:
^ if I see someone going air, I'll go for ultras/NP. Generally what happens for me in those sort of games, is like terran will go mech, turtle, and so I'll rush broodlords. If I see terran really dedicating to air, I'll attack with said broodlords with heavy IT spam, but I'll be preparing for an ultra switch. i suppose it would be even easier if you go straight to ultras, but even someone going straight into air, will have difficulty with broodlords, the timings just match in such a way that even if he goes straight air, broodlords are going to be hard to deal with.

If terran has 20+ vikings (and that's really how many vikings you need to deal with a broodlord fleet), or a bunch of ravens, he's going to win against broodlords armies, but he won't have enough ground to deal with a pure ultra/NP army going around his static defenses, like straight into his main to tear up the production.

On August 18 2012 10:18 pyrostat wrote:
if i may ask, can you please read my previous post?

how do you beat terran air as zerg consisting of ravens, vikings, bio force, as well as a couple thors/tanks to deny infestors?

http://day9.tv/d/Day9/nestea-z-vs-kas-t-iem-gamescom-day-2-group-b/

this game what could have nestea done? even if he tech switched into ultras, that would be a stupid choice considering he had all the tools he needed such as maraders and thors to counter.

how can zerg counter this, especially after patch soon to come which buffs ravens and nerfs zerg creep spread to make things worse?

On August 18 2012 10:29 DemigodcelpH wrote:


Split your units. The concept of this micro is unknown to most Zergs (not trying to be offensive), but essentially unit splitting makes HSM very bad.

On August 18 2012 10:32 pyrostat wrote:

INB4 read my previous posts.

a few problems i see with your reply. See his ravens aren't clumped. Few are in the front, few are behind. Fungal doesn't work. With the insane range vikings have, the only person getting damaged will be the zerg's unit if they don't engage. Also if you split, what's going to kill stimmed bio units? Marines beat split BLS Nothing. Nothing at all. I have been also thinking what can deal with this for almost 2 months. The best i've got was massing spores. But with marines harrassing at all fronts, unlike pvz, you do not have enough incom to just mass spores here.

On August 18 2012 11:23 Orek wrote:
On recent raven discussion above, let me defend Terran a bit here even as a Zerg myself. (don't hate on me )
Note that I am not here to discuss balance. Nowhere in this thread do I suggest any change to anything.

From Terran point of view, late game BL/inefesor looks nearly unbeatable pre-20 min or even pre-25min mark in some cases. In a straight up engagement with similar economy situation to get there, Terran's odds are not so high during this late game period. There is no way Terran can have enough ravens at this point. Therefore, Terran often goes drop to 1.buy time & delay the BL/infestor push 2.use the bought time to secure at least 4 if not 5 bases. 3.sacrifice supply for viking/raven instead of marine/tank only. If Zerg manages to engage Terran head-on during this late game period and doesn't let Terran delay you much, then unprepared Terran is likely to die. This is where "Zerg OP" usually comes from as far as I know. 2-3 months ago, game was figured out only to this point, and Terran didn't have enough experience how to transition to super late game

Once Terran buys enough time with 4-5 bases, which is only possible on certain maps like metropolis, then he can afford many ravens for HSM along with vikings. This super late game terran composition looks so strong. At this point, I don't think Zerg has much advantage like it did 8-10min ago when Terran was relatively unprepared. The match comes down to split. Split against HSM vs split vs fungal. To be fair, whoever cannot split BL/corruptor/infestor deserves to lose. At the same time, whoever cannot split raven/viking/marine deserves to lose as well. I don't think it is unfair for either side. However, the longer this super late game continues, the better Terran gets. With nearly unlimited resource, Terran can afford ghost for nuke/EMP or BC at this point. So, clock is ticking against Zerg, a race that used to have advantage when it just entered late game era. It is like playing no rush 60min game. If both are given virtually unlimited resources, Terran end game ultimate composition is better than Zerg's, and this is not a problem as long as Zerg has means to prevent Terran to get there. I am probably a bit biased and misinformed, but I don't think it is too far off.

In short,
1. Keep in mind that clock is ticking against Zerg. Try to finish ASAP while your composition has advantage.
2. Split is a must skill once raven is in picture, but your opponent has to split as well, which comes down to skill.

On August 18 2012 10:18 pyrostat wrote:
if i may ask, can you please read my previous post?

how do you beat terran air as zerg consisting of ravens, vikings, bio force, as well as a couple thors/tanks to deny infestors?

http://day9.tv/d/Day9/nestea-z-vs-kas-t-iem-gamescom-day-2-group-b/

this game what could have nestea done? even if he tech switched into ultras, that would be a stupid choice considering he had all the tools he needed such as maraders and thors to counter.

how can zerg counter this, especially after patch soon to come which buffs ravens and nerfs zerg creep spread to make things worse?

On August 18 2012 11:30 pyrostat wrote:


first of all, i agree with you. But looking at your point 1, i see a lot of problems. See terran has these things called Mules and ocs, enabling them to not have nearly as much supplies in food, and this doesn't require super late game as you have mentioned. With the range of siege tanks, pfs, and vikings, defending is a joke as terran. I don't see a problem not being able to defend against zerg in a defence position as terran. Now if indeed the clock is ticking against the zerg, does that mean you consider and notice a slight imbalance there? Now even then, terran is being buffed, while zerg is being nerfed. Do you believe that it should be the other way around?

On August 18 2012 20:48 Monsyphon wrote:
Does anyone have any good ZVZ replays/vods you can learn from?
Im so lost in this matchup if i dont do 2 base muta, and i wanna try something new

On August 18 2012 11:53 Belial88 wrote:


Artosis even states in the cast that nestea should have stopped making broodlords, and gone ultras.

I believe it's something like it just takes 3 ultras to beat a PF, even if it's being fully repaired by 20+ SCVs.

I see, at 25:59 youtube video time, 16 odd marauders, 2 thors, and some marines. 8 Ultras with the 10 infestors he had supporting to throw down FG+IT, would have rolled this army.

I keep telling you the answer, but it seems like you are insistent on this idea that ultras are bad. They aren't. We've been seeing a lot recently that a pure broodlord army of any kind will just get demolished by a raven fleet, as well as simply 20+ vikings. When Terran has that much in air, ultra/infestor will be extremely strong.

At 32:00 youtube time, nestea attacks into a huge choke with only 1 ultra, that seemed destined to fail. You shouldn't have any corruptors, infestors are all the AA you'll need to make sure terran doesn't do something like kill every single overlord. He dedicated so much into his broodlords though, a little too late. The game was already lost.

I'm not saying it's easy, but you seem to underestimate the power of ultras. You really can't handle a maxed ultra army, even with PFs, if you have 20+ vikings and a lot of supply tied up in ravens. I'm not even saying that ultras would win the game, ravens are pretty hard to deal with. But I can promise you that ravens just destroy any sort of broodlord based army, and that ravens + 20 vikings really aren't that strong against ultras.

If you max out on broodlord/infestor in the face of a terran going ravens, you are going to be a tough spot, you can't exactly tech switch into pure ultra with even 6 bases. But if you identify what terran is doing, and go towards ultras instead of more broodlord/infestor, you can do pretty good damage. There's also a lot of zergs who prefer ultra/NP vs pure mech armies instead of broodlords. Ultras are pretty good, and any terran will tell you how much it sucks dealing with the tech switch from zerg. In a case like a map like Metropolis, you just use the ultra army to deny terran from taking any extra bases, while you take more yourself. You can use drops to go around PFs, or quite frankly you can use a pure ultra army to storm through, they really aren't going to care much about a PF.

A zerg a while back wrote a guide on how awesome ultras are even against a pure BC army.

On August 19 2012 01:24 pyrostat wrote:

To be honest though, did you forget that ravens in that numbers can still kill ground units just as fast? especially if they are clumped. you can't just split up your ultras when attacking because they are meelee. They clump up as they attack. Especially zerglings, they will die so fast. With PFS, siege tanks, and maruaders, plus ravens to add to that, no way ultras are going to even touch a terran army.