EPTtehcaek, a little description would go a long way.
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 351
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
tehcaek, a little description would go a long way. | ||
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tehcaekftw
Denmark138 Posts
I dont know how to scout these things. Like mutas to screw me over, protoss preparing to attack me with a lot of stuff.. etc.. I simply dont know what to look for when i scout, other than the obvious like a dark shrine or stargates but.. In ZvZ its just am atter of timing, i dont know when i should scout roughly to see if my opponent is going for spire or not | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On August 14 2012 18:02 gronnelg wrote: In the video, the IT seems to survive so long... Was there a lot of hallucinated units in video? I feel that ITs nearly insta die to colo fire? Is that IT spam in front of the army really viable? In one of those fights, there was a guy with about 13 or 14 hallucinated colossus. I don't think there were hallus in any of the other fights. If he has more colossi or uses storms on your ITs, you have to keep making more infested terrans, and try to spread them out so it uses more storms. It sure seems viable to me. | ||
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Rovskagg
Sweden46 Posts
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:32 Rovskagg wrote: So, im a rank 1 gold Zerg wich doing very well in ZvZ fairly ok ZvP but have the worst win-rate ever against terran(maybe 20-30% winrate) My apm is decent for my level and i think i have a fairly good understanding of the game in generall, but i just dont seem to understand how to play against Terran. It seemse like i never can break there walls. I would love if some one could maybe uppload some replays and tell me some standard buildorders for this MU and maybe some random-tips, beacuse im loosing faith in my dear race. I am in Plat league. My best MU is ZvT by far with about 80% winrate. What works for me is just play standard lings/banes/mutas but defensively. I get map countrol and when he pushes out I crush his army in the middle of the map and then I attack his bases. I only harrass if I can with mutas before the pushes. I never attack into a terran wall as I feel it is their strongest stance. | ||
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Icarox
Sweden78 Posts
Im top dia, facing off against masters all the time and beating them on a regular basis. But ZvZ is seriously the dumbest most dull matchup in the game, or so I feel. Its only based around ling-drone, and the occasional baneling for pressure or guarding your ramp. And then you move into midgame, and almost always stay there. Unless theres mutaplay involved and one player may or may not delay a third or etc. And moving into Ultras. Is it because Ive watched TvT and PvP too much and seen that they alter units, tactics and openings? Hell, PvP is allegedly the 'coinflip matchup' of the game. But thats just like an ordinary ZvZ opening. And then ling-drone. Ling-drone. Ling-drone. I guess that what Im asking for is less for solid strats, openers or the like. And rather goofy stuff that you can use to throw people off and maybe experience a side of the game that feels fresh and not completely stagnant. I've been playing around personally with +2+2+2 speedroach-speedling for midgame and then use that for t3 lately, but obviously lings dont fare well against infestors if they ever found you clumped up. But its interesting cus you got a bunch of units that you can flank with and exploit your multitasking even for the midgame. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
http://drop.sc/238841 I have been having trouble with people who go 9/10/11 Pool in a macro game. See, I 10 drone scout, and reactively go 15 pool. I'm way ahead, right? I grab a gas, and go baneling nest first so I can take my natural honestly, quickly, while being able to hold any sort of all-in follow-up, despite having way less lings than an opponent who just pumps only lings all game long. However, I have a really big problem with Zergs who 10 pool, and play macro from there, dishonest macro - As in they take their hatch immediately. And maybe they can do that with all the lings, it's not a big deal, because I'm way ahead in drones (assuming we both gas normally). But then they don't get any gas, speed, or banes. And I end up behind because I play honestly, while they don't. But see, if I go speed first, I can't secure my natural against a flood of lings, I need banelings. And if I go baneling nest first, I can't really scout if they are going for drones or whatnot. So what the fuck. How am I supposed to play against 10 pools like this? I think in this game, I could have inferred that he had nothing when he took such a fast expo. But I could not have known if he was going straight into baneling tech and would have been able to hold any all-in. I do drone scout his gas, I guess I could have known he would have been vulnerable, but I figured I would have been way ahead and I would just play it safe. How can you play against 10 pool like this? | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
His macro was awful and he really didn't know what he was doing so you were actually ahead. A while later you start getting supply blocked alot and then when he attacks with those roaches you also can't make units again, way to few units so you lose. Isn't a 14 pool 16 hatch holding a 9/10/11 pool too? | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
On August 15 2012 08:11 Belial88 wrote: I have a question and replay: http://drop.sc/238841 I have been having trouble with people who go 9/10/11 Pool in a macro game. See, I 10 drone scout, and reactively go 15 pool. I'm way ahead, right? I grab a gas, and go baneling nest first so I can take my natural honestly, quickly, while being able to hold any sort of all-in follow-up, despite having way less lings than an opponent who just pumps only lings all game long. However, I have a really big problem with Zergs who 10 pool, and play macro from there, dishonest macro - As in they take their hatch immediately. And maybe they can do that with all the lings, it's not a big deal, because I'm way ahead in drones (assuming we both gas normally). But then they don't get any gas, speed, or banes. And I end up behind because I play honestly, while they don't. But see, if I go speed first, I can't secure my natural against a flood of lings, I need banelings. And if I go baneling nest first, I can't really scout if they are going for drones or whatnot. So what the fuck. How am I supposed to play against 10 pools like this? I think in this game, I could have inferred that he had nothing when he took such a fast expo. But I could not have known if he was going straight into baneling tech and would have been able to hold any all-in. I do drone scout his gas, I guess I could have known he would have been vulnerable, but I figured I would have been way ahead and I would just play it safe. How can you play against 10 pool like this? I think your problem was that you played a bit too safe. First of all why build a spine, you are perfectly fine vs 10 pool with 15 pool without it. Then you see him going for a rly fast expand and no gas, there is no need to build baneling nest before speed, he cant rly allin you with slowlings. Also once you get the nest all you need is 2 banelings to be safe not 4 or 5. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Holy shit, set 3, Lowley beats a 10 pool with 8 of 12 drones pulled double spine with hatch first. He doesn't cancel the hatch, and constantly shifts between hatches as he gets a queen and more lings out until he can fight. Really interesting. Maybe you can beat 10 pool with hatch first. This is the only attempt at a hold I've seen that doesn't have flaws in it (like that stupid 'just hold position with 3 drones at the ramp to block the opponent from move commanding into your base!' defense). I'd love to test this out with somenoe. Belial.869. Still don't see how to beat 10 pool baneling with hatch first, but i havent seen that on ladder or pro play since checkprime was around. | ||
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Monsyphon
Canada190 Posts
Roach warren/production? Upgrades? Lair? Third? 3rd+4th gas? I've been trying to learn the roach/htdra infestor style because i now dislike using muta builds and i like to be out on the map attacking stuff | ||
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734pot
Australia294 Posts
On August 15 2012 13:33 Belial88 wrote: http://sc2casts.com/cast9509-Nerchio-vs-LoweLy-Best-of-3-ZOTAC-Cup-Quarter-Finals Holy shit, set 3, Lowley beats a 10 pool with 8 of 12 drones pulled double spine with hatch first. He doesn't cancel the hatch, and constantly shifts between hatches as he gets a queen and more lings out until he can fight. Really interesting. Maybe you can beat 10 pool with hatch first. This is the only attempt at a hold I've seen that doesn't have flaws in it (like that stupid 'just hold position with 3 drones at the ramp to block the opponent from move commanding into your base!' defense). I'd love to test this out with somenoe. Belial.869. Still don't see how to beat 10 pool baneling with hatch first, but i havent seen that on ladder or pro play since checkprime was around. Another example of this sort if defence is Soulkey vs Jaedong in proleague . I remember seeing a series between Ret and suppy, Ret defended the 10 pool in this fashion in one game, but it failed the second time when suppy put a spine at the natural and the main, so im not exactly sure how viable it is. I believe this was at Asus ROG, but im not entirely sure. | ||
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Liverpool8
United States1 Post
I have been out of the Starcraft 2 scene for about 3 months now. In that time I have completely forgotten everything I know about my beloved Zerg. I used to be a high plat- mid diamond player in 1v1 and a diamond player in 2v2. I was hoping someone could help me out with a standard opening for each Zerg matchup. It doesn't have to be a build order, just an idea. I know that queens got a buff so I am just wondering how that and any other changes to the game affect Zerg openings. Thanks! | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On August 15 2012 14:10 Liverpool8 wrote: Hey all, I am a long time lurker, but this my first account and first post ever. I have been out of the Starcraft 2 scene for about 3 months now. In that time I have completely forgotten everything I know about my beloved Zerg. I used to be a high plat- mid diamond player in 1v1 and a diamond player in 2v2. I was hoping someone could help me out with a standard opening for each Zerg matchup. It doesn't have to be a build order, just an idea. I know that queens got a buff so I am just wondering how that and any other changes to the game affect Zerg openings. Thanks! There are 3 really really good guides that will give you a great idea of the current metagame/playstyle for Zerg. These are: Belials ZvT - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340023 Belials ZvP - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320038 Blade ZvZ - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344989 | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On August 15 2012 13:52 734pot wrote: Another example of this sort if defence is Soulkey vs Jaedong in proleague http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t0H-EG3kYg. I remember seeing a series between Ret and suppy, Ret defended the 10 pool in this fashion in one game, but it failed the second time when suppy put a spine at the natural and the main, so im not exactly sure how viable it is. I believe this was at Asus ROG, but im not entirely sure. Holy shit. I am now in total awe of Jaedong. I have never seen defensive drone fleeing and early pool defense that good before. That was godly how he stacked all his drones onto eachother (it's effectively a mobile Belial's Drone Flower of Death!wtf!), and then when soulkey, who clearly was executing the build really well and went for the morphing lings, JD mineral walked to his eggs so soulkey had to back off. That was the best early pool defense ive ever seen. That was amazing, thanks for linking that. Interesting. So maybe hatch first is a build order win against ALL openings? There's a few 9/10/11 pools I'm still not sure about though - 10 pool speedling, which isn't that good, should still at least get a lead against 15 hatch when executed well against someone defending well (just a minor lead i think, maybe some testing could be done on that), and 10 pool baneling i still have no idea how you'd defend against. I'd love to test this stuff out with someone. Belial.869, just message me on TL. If we could make it so hatch first beat 9/10/11 pools too, then you could go 15 hatch blind every single zvz with full confidence. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
why do some zerg pros go 2 base roach/infestor? It seems to be done solely as a reaction to 2 base muta (i dont think 2 base infestor is too popular so no one seems to think that may come), but you can hold 2 base muta with fast third before lair and then spores, queens, and infestors as you would with 2 base lair infestor right? It seems they are just going 2 base infestor, and then adding roaches after third, but why dont they just go third before lair every game? ZvZ metagame is so ridiculously hard to keep up with ;/ edit: hm maybe its just effort doing a 2 base speedroach all-in.. im not sure. it seems like most pros do it as just 2 base infestor as a way to defend 2 base muta... im still confused why they do that instead of going third before lair vs muta play. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
On August 15 2012 06:30 Icarox wrote: How do you make ZvZ fun? Im top dia, facing off against masters all the time and beating them on a regular basis. But ZvZ is seriously the dumbest most dull matchup in the game, or so I feel. Its only based around ling-drone, and the occasional baneling for pressure or guarding your ramp. And then you move into midgame, and almost always stay there. Unless theres mutaplay involved and one player may or may not delay a third or etc. And moving into Ultras. Is it because Ive watched TvT and PvP too much and seen that they alter units, tactics and openings? Hell, PvP is allegedly the 'coinflip matchup' of the game. But thats just like an ordinary ZvZ opening. And then ling-drone. Ling-drone. Ling-drone. I guess that what Im asking for is less for solid strats, openers or the like. And rather goofy stuff that you can use to throw people off and maybe experience a side of the game that feels fresh and not completely stagnant. I've been playing around personally with +2+2+2 speedroach-speedling for midgame and then use that for t3 lately, but obviously lings dont fare well against infestors if they ever found you clumped up. But its interesting cus you got a bunch of units that you can flank with and exploit your multitasking even for the midgame. I felt just like you, until a few weeks ago, when I started using blade55555s ling instestor, into ultra build. Having a build is great. Knowing what to do at all times, and actually doing somehting that works. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344989 | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
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