EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 219
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
|
sewergoat
United States97 Posts
| ||
|
M1cha84
Germany64 Posts
 | ||
|
VaderZerg
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On March 25 2012 06:08 sewergoat wrote: Between a 15 pool 15 hatch and a 14 pool 16 hatch in zvp, which is better and why? Thanks! Most pros do 14p 16h (followed by 15 ol 15 queen). That way you can produce 2 consecutive queens from the first hatchery and immediately spawn larvae on the natural once it's complete. | ||
|
Werezerg
Germany62 Posts
On March 25 2012 07:41 M1cha84 wrote: I go 14 pool 16 hatch always in zvp because DRG and Stephano do that! I would guess, that they have tried every possible opening, so why not copy them? funny, when i saw stephano he played 15 pool 15 hatch, i guess he varies a bit. but honestly it´s such a small difference i wouldnt care about that. @vader: take the nearest base without rocks, on the opposite direction of your opponent. think about going gas -> speed before 3rd, this variation helps defend against early 4gate (out of fffe) stuff. it´s a bit hard to defend such a far away expo against early pressure with the roaches. taking down the rocks is a rly big hit to your drone count, so better not expo there. i see the pros always take the nearest base without rocks. and veto tal darim on ladder  | ||
|
SyDe
France355 Posts
I played a game today and I don't really understand (or almost) why I lost so bad. Here is there replay : http://drop.sc/141791 ZvP on Shakuras, close pose. Well, I know that I made a few mistakes (lair too fast and since I lost my 4 first lings I had no clue what he was up to), but still, I feel like even if I knew he was coming -that fast- it would have been hard to defend without losing my 3rd. thanks in advance~ go zerg !~ edit: mid/high master, dunno if that matters. | ||
|
Falcon-sw
United States324 Posts
Can. Not. Win. Lately. I am seriously 1 of my last 15 or so on ladder. Platinum. Getting my ass handed to my by Gold level players. Handle 6 hellions at my front, forget the tiny detail of spotting drops, get dropped in my main with 8 marines, everything dies. Scout a FFE from Protoss, go Stephano build, get warp prismed into my main, ramp forcefielded and everything dies. Move out at the exact wrong time to attack Terran natural, end up with massive army in my face and everything dies before I can even get there with anything but lings (all die instantly). No idea how to handle a 3-gate expand. Protoss waits until I get my third up, wanders over and rapes it, and I'm done. Zerg feels so so so so so unforgiving. One mistake costs you everything. Have to scout and plan for everything under the sun. I started playing at midnight and told myself it'd just be a couple games. It's now 2:15 AM and I can't quit because I have yet to win since then. | ||
|
jackdaleaper
Philippines1216 Posts
On March 26 2012 17:13 Falcon-sw wrote: I. Can. Not. Win. Lately. I am seriously 1 of my last 15 or so on ladder. Platinum. Getting my ass handed to my by Gold level players. Handle 6 hellions at my front, forget the tiny detail of spotting drops, get dropped in my main with 8 marines, everything dies. Scout a FFE from Protoss, go Stephano build, get warp prismed into my main, ramp forcefielded and everything dies. Move out at the exact wrong time to attack Terran natural, end up with massive army in my face and everything dies before I can even get there with anything but lings (all die instantly). No idea how to handle a 3-gate expand. Protoss waits until I get my third up, wanders over and rapes it, and I'm done. Zerg feels so so so so so unforgiving. One mistake costs you everything. Have to scout and plan for everything under the sun. I started playing at midnight and told myself it'd just be a couple games. It's now 2:15 AM and I can't quit because I have yet to win since then. Not sure if this is just a rant post but if you seriously want some help, it would be nice if you could include replays and specific questions where you want help. All Zergs can symphatize with you... yes, it's so easy to lose as Zerg (my pet problem is overdroning) but with proper scouting and decision making you can make other races pay for their mistakes too. Terran moves out? Backstab him with lings and make his push all-in or force him to come back so you can have more time to macro/prepare defense. Protoss goes for some 2 base push? Scout his tech and prepare proper defense and roll him. Yes it's easy to make mistake as Zerg but what a lot of Zergs forget is if the other races make a push/harass and don't do enough damage, we can make them pay for their failure dearly by getting our economy up and just overwhelm them. Zerg defense primarily hinges on scouting (knowing what to scout for and what to do with that info), but then again getting the right info is easier said than done. | ||
|
jackdaleaper
Philippines1216 Posts
I've had success in EV going gasless early on and then maxing out on roaches ala Stephano/DRG and just push until Protoss dies but if the 'toss is competent in defending I usually lose. | ||
|
Bearwidme
Australia57 Posts
Warp prism in main is lame but there's a clock on it, the toss will keep his sentries by the ramp, usually without protection. Get what ever units you can to go around the other assaulting units and target the sentries, even ~2 roaches or ~6 lings can limit the number of forcefields the toss can lay down. Not really sure how a terran army can sneak up on you (ling at front?). 3-gate expo can and should be handled similarly to ffe, you just need to shift all your timings earlier (faster gas, faster roach warren, produce units earlier). You should still be able to get your 3rd up, just don't drone it. It's not so much that zerg are unforgiving, it's just the way they only try and get units out when they need them (where as terran/toss tend to have constant work/army production), this can hurt zerg players who lack understanding about timings and what type of attack is actually possible. I'd say getting supply blocked is the only thing that isn't quite as forgiving as the other races, since a zerg will make reactionary units in the early/mid game, if you get supply blocked, the damage can already be done before you can defend it. | ||
|
lannisport
878 Posts
And now on how we get there, what is your general midgame goal and unit composition (Assuming they don't do some 2 base thing)? I know if they get an early third it's popular to just max at 12 minutes and do multiprong attacks but how do you know when to back off or when you've done enough damage? I've tried a few passive styles but I think denying or delaying that third and fourth is more important than superior upgrades or tech. And uh does anyone transition to mass infestor ling with a focus on harassing the third and his army or is that army just too fragile? | ||
|
windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
When should I stop Muta production and Focus on teching up to Hive? I usually use my mutas to buy me time to get a 3rd and 4th up and then start with Hive tech now that I have 8 gas. But often I find myself with too little gas anyways because of continuous Muta production. | ||
|
PerksPlus
Canada105 Posts
On March 25 2012 06:08 sewergoat wrote: Between a 15 pool 15 hatch and a 14 pool 16 hatch in zvp, which is better and why? Thanks! I just do 13 pool, 15 overlord, queen/lings -> hatch. (i'm only a diamond level player) but i do this just because pylons are annoying. | ||
|
Chinesewonder
Canada354 Posts
On March 27 2012 07:48 windsupernova wrote: Hi, I recently switched to Z from T and am having some trouble regarding Muta play vs T. When should I stop Muta production and Focus on teching up to Hive? I usually use my mutas to buy me time to get a 3rd and 4th up and then start with Hive tech now that I have 8 gas. But often I find myself with too little gas anyways because of continuous Muta production. Hey mid masters here I usually get around 20ish give or take and no more. There is some wiggle room for preference. For me, I have found that terrans have become very good at denying harass with turrets and stimmed marines. I know I'm not going to end the game with them and if I get too many, my standing army is going to become weak. I find 20 a good number to establish map control, deal with drops and pick them off, and pick off a tank here or there. Also you want to work to get your brood lord tech as soon as you can as well as infestors. If you get a huge flock of mutas, your brood lord tech will be delayed, and when you finally get to that tech, you are going to have to sacrifice them anyway to free up supply. | ||
|
windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On March 27 2012 09:55 Chinesewonder wrote: Hey mid masters here I usually get around 20ish give or take and no more. There is some wiggle room for preference. For me, I have found that terrans have become very good at denying harass with turrets and stimmed marines. I know I'm not going to end the game with them and if I get too many, my standing army is going to become weak. I find 20 a good number to establish map control, deal with drops and pick them off, and pick off a tank here or there. Also you want to work to get your brood lord tech as soon as you can as well as infestors. If you get a huge flock of mutas, your brood lord tech will be delayed, and when you finally get to that tech, you are going to have to sacrifice them anyway to free up supply. Oh Ok thanks. I know the "in" thing now is to go straight to Infestors but I really like the flexibility Mutas give. I guess my gameplan with Mutas would be to secure 3rd and 4th with the map control my Mutas give me, stop at 20 ish Mutas tech Infestors and Hive. Thanks, haha now I realize how much I overcommited to Mutas. | ||
|
ChriseC
Germany440 Posts
How to defend the Immortal 6Gateway mass Sentry allin? i never could hold it and i dont know how to react against it. Roach ling doesnt seem to work since there are soooo many forcefields. do i need infestors? anyone has experience with holding it off quite well? | ||
|
Aeceus
United Kingdom1278 Posts
| ||
|
Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
The reason i want to know this is because i want to know how to handle these weird builds that rarely occur but if they do occur i respond incorrectly and i die. I have also had matches(real opponent) when the terran 1 bases + lots of barracks for mass marine, those are easier to handle since i can have banelings. Note that i want to know how to React to a similiar build(not just how to defeat them) so i play standard 15 hatch 16 gas(pull 2 drones away when 100gas) 16 pool 17 overlord+1drone, and then when i scout how i should react. I can easily beat zerg and protoss on insane playing standard but terran is a nightmare. Diamond zerg here trying to improve my weaknesses(weird/cheesy builds). 1 more question: it has been asked a ton of times but really, everyone says something different, how to hold 6 pool + or without a spine, please tell me how to do it properly. | ||
|
willverrecken
80 Posts
On March 28 2012 02:43 Aeceus wrote: Hey guys, quick question. How many infestors are the 'magic' number in ZvZ? I think its the one match up holding me back. I usually lose in the Early or Late game. I think my teching is too slow but I am not sure. I try to focus on upgrades but got told that upgrades in ZvZ arn't as important as other match ups for zerg. armor upgrades aren't as important as dmg upgrades but those are HUGE. roaches get +2 and hydras as well as infested terrans have naturally high attack speed so they profit a lot. i'd still advise you to get both upgrades if you don't feel like you absolutely need the ressources for something else though. i don't know what's the magic number for infestors but i've always felt that there is no point where more infestors isn't better because i feel like infested terrans kinda wreck everything zvz. you still want hydras and roaches with that though so it's obviously more controlled by your gas income than just by what you want in your composition. if you just look for a number at which infestors start getting "useful" then it's probably 4 for just fungals. On March 28 2012 02:14 ChriseC wrote: ZVP: How to defend the Immortal 6Gateway mass Sentry allin? i never could hold it and i dont know how to react against it. Roach ling doesnt seem to work since there are soooo many forcefields. do i need infestors? anyone has experience with holding it off quite well? i think the key here is creepspread. to hold it with just roach ling (hydras is what i read most on TL, but personally they never did the trick for me so just talking from my own experience (eu master)) you need 4 hatches, a little more than 60 drones (around 65 is a good number i think, not too many), 3 gases, 3 queens constantly injecting, roach speed and +1 armor or +1 ranged attack (armor works better i think). the key is to identify it early enough somehow. what should tip you off is 3 gases at the nat for a long time without stargate and a lot of sentries. obviously if you scout a robo/immortals. if he goes for something else you can just do the same build and use your army to deny the protoss 3rd and play from there (make 4th, more drones, tech ifnestors). works surprisingly good as well. | ||
|
Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
On March 27 2012 06:52 lannisport wrote: I have a few questions for you ZvP specialists. I'm having a bit of trouble in the late game versus 3-3 stalkers. Maybe my upgrades are a little slow or my composition isn't so hot, or my mid game isn't aggressive enough but my lategame army is dying to highly upgraded stalkers with collosus support. I usually have about 12 BLs with 10 infestors and crackling support. At that point my BLs are 1-1 and I have fully upgraded ground upgrades. Should I be waiting until I have more BLs before moving out? Maybe 2-2? If I get blinked under I fungal and set out a few infested terrans, but the toss seems to reinforce his stalkers too quickly and I'll have half of my BLs already at yellow health by the time his reinforcements come. How should I be controlling the late game army vs toss? I always pre-emptively spread my BLs out and try to catch leading stalkers with FG. How many BLs should I be aiming for? Usually I see Stephano turtle until he has 18+. And now on how we get there, what is your general midgame goal and unit composition (Assuming they don't do some 2 base thing)? I know if they get an early third it's popular to just max at 12 minutes and do multiprong attacks but how do you know when to back off or when you've done enough damage? I've tried a few passive styles but I think denying or delaying that third and fourth is more important than superior upgrades or tech. And uh does anyone transition to mass infestor ling with a focus on harassing the third and his army or is that army just too fragile? 12 broods + 10 infestors? How are you dying? That's A LOT of fungals! Your engagement is probably wrong, is my guess. Ideally, you should have your lings back a bit, waiting for the stalkers to blink in ('cause they always do). Otherwise, you're just letting the broods work and fungaling stalkers with infestors. The second stalkers blink in, a-move the lings and move command the broods back a bit before a-moving them again. Otherwise, your lings shouldn't be do anything at all except trying to look cute (which they do so well when they're on crack). Edit: Oh yeah...replays help with the diagnoses... | ||
| ||
