EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 217
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
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Vond
Sweden145 Posts
On March 21 2012 07:03 Chinesewonder wrote: I was always under the impression that you want to get roach speed before the timing hits. I mean slow roaches are just bleh... Also I use the overseer to scout exactly what he is doing, though I guess you can just watch the forge to see if he is upgrading or not. For sure vs 7/8 gate pushes, but a 6gate push usually hits so much faster that you won't have roach speed ready anyway, meaning the gas is wasted on upgrades you won't have during the engagement. If you DO have the time to get it vs the push you were having issues with however it's ofcourse different. | ||
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mokumoku
157 Posts
Im silver league Zerg. It comes down to who has the bling micro? It's really weird because one thing that goes wrong loses the game for me. | ||
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ETisME
12542 Posts
On March 22 2012 00:54 mokumoku wrote: I dont really understand ZvZ, any videos explaining ZvZ? Im silver league Zerg. It comes down to who has the bling micro? It's really weird because one thing that goes wrong loses the game for me. I think ZvZ is a really difficult match up to explain. the most common being 14g14p and 15h15p the gas first opening allows you to be more aggressive with the earlier lings because you will have speed ready, you can just mass lings if he went for 15 hatch while grabbing an expo of your own. If he had made too many drones, you can just win right out with the higher ling numbers or if he forgot to block the ramp of two queens, you could run into his main and target all the drones and pull ahead with the superior macro. Plus you will be able to scout around for a while. If you went for hatch 1st, you will need a spine at your natural to buy time for your speed/baneling nest done. if you managed to survive the initial wave of ling baneling micro war, the general mid game unit composition is: roach infestors roach hydra muta Generally, the easier one is to go mass roach if your micro isn't so good, you can add in some infestors when you have a relatively high roach number. Getting the third up is huge in ZvZ and requires quite a lot of experience to do. You can just do a 2 base roach all in when you get the 1/1 upgrade and it usually works well as long as your macro is better than his | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
On March 21 2012 20:03 Buruguduy wrote: That's what I do basically. But I guess the question is how exactly do you engage? The issue is my army keeps getting cut off if he builds his stallker ball while attacking. I'm a 558 points in master btw, so I don't think mechanics is an issue. I maybe just suck in decision making. Any replay? Sorry I mean one with Z wins and one with P wins. Im sure mechanics can be improved at any point even mid masters. One of the biggest thing when doing the "both players just keep making army and keep attacking" you have to keep up with his production. If he has 7 gates making stalkers you better have 3+ hatches making roaches. If you're making lings when you should be making roaches, if you're not injecting as well as you could have, you are probably losing because you cant keep up or cant spend your money. Ideally you should just balance your resources with your larva. If you have a lot of drones mining you want a lot of gases, this way you can spend your money on a limited # of larva on more roaches. That way you arnt stuck at 700 minerals 0 gas with a lot of drones not enough gases (making lings making your money go up). And you arnt stuck at 0 minerals 500 gas where you don't have enough drones to balance how many gases you have. Typically its "do i have money and gas? make roaches", and then the rest is on lings. Macro hatch or expansion behind the push. Oh a last thing, u can have 1 or 2 spines per entrance to your bases (usually 1 or 2 entrances total). This helps you be more on the greedy side and still defend effectively. | ||
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tehcaekftw
Denmark138 Posts
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Werezerg
Germany62 Posts
i think you really should add hydras to your roach army. roaches usually cannot deal with the blink stalkers efficiently if the protoss micros well. it might be possible but the easier way is this: the moment you know it´s 7 gate blink stalker you place the hyd den. the first engagement you should hold with roaches afterwards when he just masses outside your base you should have your first wave of hydras out. good thing is, to deal with the hydras he needs collos out, a tech he just does not have at all. so there should be a window where you have the upper hand, so you can get your eco back up, maybe you can deny a 3rd or even kill him. (my 2cents from mid master zerg eu) | ||
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Giku
Netherlands368 Posts
On March 21 2012 04:41 GloPikkle wrote: In what way do you lose to hellions? Do they deny your 3rd for too long? Do they dive in and get drones? Please be more specific as to exactly how hellions are killing you. Build spines and a decent sim city using evos or a Roach warren or something. If they dive behind your mineral lines, try to block their movement with either lings or drones if you have to. If you suspect they're going to try to run into your main, put 2 queens on hold on the ramp. Good OL spread should give you better map awareness. Try to post lings as well on likely medivac routes. You play Terran as well so you can probably think of the lanes that they're going to send an OL. Losing to a drop is much better than an unscouted drop landing in your base. Also patrolling a few lings and blings around your mineral lines can catch them as well. When playing mutaling, you need to be really active with mutas. They risk losing their drop once mutas are on the map. When playing Infestor/ling, place 2 infestors at each base if you're not pushing out. Don't just clump them all at your rally. Hellions dive in and kill my drones, somehow it always happens, maybe not at first but it'll happen sometime. Mostly because of the big naturals, that I don't know how to defend it. Maybe I should position my queens a bit better.. Thing is, I always scout the drops, but I dont know how to stop them, say 2 medivacs come, my army is in the middle of the map. What do I send? Especially with multiple drops I get crazy, I do get spines at my 3rd/4th most of the time, but should I invest even more in spines for my main? As for mutaling, if I do get my mutas I'm relatively safe, I can just focus on my macro(whilst harrassing a bit) because the terran is afraid to move out. If I play infestor or go broodlord I don't know what the hell I'm doing, especially if they start dropping again, like where do I morph broods? Do I need more than just infestor support? What if I get dropped somewhere, broods are too slow, and can't ever be left alone right? Thanks for the tips&help so far  ! | ||
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lannisport
878 Posts
I really think this is neat, maybe I'm looking too much into it but the roaches early on allows him to slow down the push (By spreading creep out so much) and take the army on head on in the midgame with upgraded lings and infestors (Until BLs come out). So what are the general goals (always upgrading, hive morphing at around 12 minutes), when do you get the evo chamber and roach warren? How do you defend best against multiprong drops? 1 infestor and a few lings on hotkeys 1 and 3? Infestors on 2? What's the safe number of infestors to get before teching to hive? ETA: Found a BO post: + Show Spoiler + Stephano Notes vs Toss Plan: 3 Base then try to delay his third for as long as possible with roaches. When you see that its not possible, get a fourth and tech to infestors with spinecrawlers, camp then tech to broodlords Build: • 15 Pool, 16 Hatch, 24 Hatch(Before 2nd Comes out) • Go down with 2nd queen and lay creep tumor to spread creep to second/third build queen in main( creep spread to third base very important!) • 44-50 food 2 Ex(about when two bases saturated) • Get Lair at first 100 gas( want to get upgrades and speed asap after to apply pressure) • If zealots coming to kill third, build 14 zerglings micro very important. (very common) • Scout 7min (if his natural is getting gas and has few probes, then teching to blink or voids) Response: Gather overlords, get more queens at each base, spores in each mineral line • 7 min make roach warren with evo chamber(4 gate timing off two base) Evo helps you to defend against voidray push at 7:30 • 2 More gases half way before Lair Pops( gas for upgrades) No pressure from Toss- you want to apply pressure because he is probably teching so if he cut any corners then you can kill him. • 9min Bases Should be Saturated. Start Building Roaches and Lings to pressure his third keep on the pressure if you sense you can persist. • 10 min macro hatch. You can bring in reinforcements faster. • Transition 11min If on two base or cant do damage, get infestors, rest of extractors, spines, evolution chamber , macro hatch, Get Fourth, fifth if possible. Infestors should be ble to delay until broodlords come out. If going ling infestor(expand as well very defendable with this unit composition, can counter with zergling run bys) • Get rest of 2 gases, 2nd evo, tech to infestor zergling, get spine crawlers at exposed bases • Tech to broodlords, keep main army to protect from stalker blink Tips: Double Spire to get upgrades Spread creep to cut center in half, so that you can put spines cutting map in half and you can take those bases Zergling Run By if army is out of position Enter Army and attack once its blinked Keep lings in base if getting dropped/ build spine Spread Creep after first inject, walk 2nd queen to third Keep on changing rally point of bases to match army Keep Rally on bases, just transfer drones to prevent over saturation Chase probe, knowing where pylon is is very helpful Scout map early with zerglings If early pressure, delay gas, and get zerglings, start zergling speed, get roaches After pressure, pressure him and get all extractors(only for infestor zergling) If Dts, surround with zerglings, do not let it get anywhere Stephano vs Terran Plan: More defensive than playing against toss so more you want to go more tech heavy path on 2 base. Expand third with some troops to protect. Terran has the ability to split you up with drops and attack early so you want to be sure that you have the necessary tech to defend against this. Get Roach Zerging Infestor, then tech to broodlords very fast. Defend until broodlords come out Try to stay on two base then expand (Shakuras) On maps with easier to get thirds, try getting third before hellions come to kill drone. (Defend with roach spread creep). 3 Base Maps • 15 hatch, Scout 15 Make sure safe, 15-17 pool, 15-17 ex. Try to get as good of an economy as possible early to get an edge on opponent. • First 100 Gas Zergling Speed • Get third queen at natural/ spread creep to third • Get third before extractors(if helion depends on map) • Keep Drones in Gas to get • 44-50 food 3 more ex (when bases saturated) • Roach Warren 5min. When Factory gets ready(If one baracks expand( have a little more time 6:30 hellions) • 4Roaches then expand to third • 7min 2 Evo chamber (timed with the extractors) defend against banshes more gas for upgrades. • 8:00 Build Lair with upgrades(4 extractors should be running by now) +1 armor helps against tanks a lot • 8:30 macro hatch(or save money for defense • 9minutes get some units then only drone(to fight off push) PIVOTAL, get roach speed immediately • Transition to Infestors immediately when lair finishes ling infestor(some roaches left over) This will help you hold off his tank push • Full map control(creep spread your half of map) • Infestor 9-10 Minutes to Delay push 5 infestors not to many because you want to save for broodlords • Get expansions aggressively, its ok if one of them dies because you have a lot of minerals • Spire to Go down when hive goes down, expand multiples times before broodlords come out • 15 minutes get broodlords out (Don't build too many, just defend the ones you already have with corruptors/ infestors) 2base- On maps like shattered temple and taldarim, this will help you get early upgrades while building an early defense on two base will help you to kill the rocks to get your third • 15Hatch, 15 scout(if you know exactly where he is because drone will get there in time to see) 15pool, 17 Ex (keep on getting gas) • First 100 Speedlings • Third Queen Spread Creep • Roach Warren around 6min if 1 Racks Expand • 2nd Ex 50(Build Early Roaches to kill rocks wherever) Early defense as well so you can drone. • 7min Evo Chambers, time 3rd and 4th extractors( You need lots of gas to keep up unit production with upgrades) also this helps you defend against banshees. • Work on Upgrades • 7min Work towards expanding using built troops that are also used to defend against helions • 8-8:30min Lair • Right When Lair Finishes Get Infestor Pit, Roach Speed • Infestors when upgrade 30seconds in(Five infestors) • Tech to Broodlords Spire with Hive, 6 Broodlords only then rest corruptors, Infest vikings Tips in general Keep infestors on different hotkey and select all if you want to select army 1 overlord scout, 2nd overlord at natural( Do not want to be bunker rushed) To defend early bunker pull drones to kill marines first Then build zerglings and queens to defend perhaps build spine crawler if needed After you defense, you have to pressure and check out what he has. When he moves out, you move in to do damage then retreat Get 4-5 roaches against hellion to expand to spread creep Spread overlords to top half, bottom half of the map. Only spread certain overlords in key positions, keep rest in base prevent getting killed Scout to see if attack is coming... If not then drone a lot( Expand Aggressively after third pops and you are safe) Get upgrade first, at 30 seconds 5 Infestors then straight to hive Creep spread is to keep half side connected together Lategame creep spread is not as important Always scout and keep one base ahead, he cannot be aggressive while expanding Build building placement to split drones if you need to split! Run the drones through the maze of buildings Spread overlords early to spot medivac drops If ever feel like going to loose to big force, counter his base 2base, if under pressure get burrow for burrow micro not many scans Get macro if under attack and high on minerals Delay gases if being attacked Put drones around the bunker at different corners when trying to kill Get third before helions come, then get roaches to defend Build infestors when upgrade is 30 seconds in Focus down units that the medivac isnt healing Spread Creep tumors evenly, very important for zvt On Taldarim and shipyard, get zerglings first if you can't scout because you need to be safe from rush 2nd base different mineral rally point No gas at 15 from terran, should be 1 barracks expand or double racks if low scv count. If pressured early, make 1 spine to defend the queen Put spine just in range of bunker Its ok if your natural dies, just keep on building drones and transfer when you rebuild it, pressure with the defenses that you made If marines come, just take off drones and save zerglings Put up 2 spines if you feel an attack is coming For 2 Base play, get all extractors for double upgrades Get infestors right when lair finishes If behind try baneling bust zergling all in. If getting dropped try spread troops over all bases | ||
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ThomasHobbes
United States197 Posts
On March 21 2012 20:03 Buruguduy wrote: That's what I do basically. But I guess the question is how exactly do you engage? The issue is my army keeps getting cut off if he builds his stallker ball while attacking. I'm a 558 points in master btw, so I don't think mechanics is an issue. I maybe just suck in decision making. Any replay? Sorry I mean one with Z wins and one with P wins. Yes, it is. It's really easy to fall into the trap of "I'm Masters, therefore I macro well", compare yourself to the pros, are you getting the same supply that they do? Are you getting the same drone count at the same time? I played two low-mid masters yesterday in customs, one Protoss and one Terran. They made some decision-oriented mistakes, sure, but their problem was, first and foremost, that they just didn't have the economy to keep up. That's the fault of mechanics and build order inefficiencies. I need to work on it, they need to work on it, pros still need to work on it. | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On March 22 2012 11:09 lannisport wrote: Hey guys I haven't played sc in a few months so I'm a little behind the metagame now. I'd just like to know what the basic BO and midgame goals are for Stephano's brand of zvt. I was typically a muta player but I wanna try some infestor play right now. I've been looking at his korean replays which may be a little older but he typically opens with roaches. He gets about 4 roaches vs a helion opening and takes his third pretty early (Can someone clarify the BO more for me?). I really think this is neat, maybe I'm looking too much into it but the roaches early on allows him to slow down the push (By spreading creep out so much) and take the army on head on in the midgame with upgraded lings and infestors (Until BLs come out). So what are the general goals (always upgrading, hive morphing at around 12 minutes), when do you get the evo chamber and roach warren? How do you defend best against multiprong drops? 1 infestor and a few lings on hotkeys 1 and 3? Infestors on 2? What's the safe number of infestors to get before teching to hive? ETA: Found a BO post: + Show Spoiler + Stephano Notes vs Toss Plan: 3 Base then try to delay his third for as long as possible with roaches. When you see that its not possible, get a fourth and tech to infestors with spinecrawlers, camp then tech to broodlords Build: • 15 Pool, 16 Hatch, 24 Hatch(Before 2nd Comes out) • Go down with 2nd queen and lay creep tumor to spread creep to second/third build queen in main( creep spread to third base very important!) • 44-50 food 2 Ex(about when two bases saturated) • Get Lair at first 100 gas( want to get upgrades and speed asap after to apply pressure) • If zealots coming to kill third, build 14 zerglings micro very important. (very common) • Scout 7min (if his natural is getting gas and has few probes, then teching to blink or voids) Response: Gather overlords, get more queens at each base, spores in each mineral line • 7 min make roach warren with evo chamber(4 gate timing off two base) Evo helps you to defend against voidray push at 7:30 • 2 More gases half way before Lair Pops( gas for upgrades) No pressure from Toss- you want to apply pressure because he is probably teching so if he cut any corners then you can kill him. • 9min Bases Should be Saturated. Start Building Roaches and Lings to pressure his third keep on the pressure if you sense you can persist. • 10 min macro hatch. You can bring in reinforcements faster. • Transition 11min If on two base or cant do damage, get infestors, rest of extractors, spines, evolution chamber , macro hatch, Get Fourth, fifth if possible. Infestors should be ble to delay until broodlords come out. If going ling infestor(expand as well very defendable with this unit composition, can counter with zergling run bys) • Get rest of 2 gases, 2nd evo, tech to infestor zergling, get spine crawlers at exposed bases • Tech to broodlords, keep main army to protect from stalker blink Tips: Double Spire to get upgrades Spread creep to cut center in half, so that you can put spines cutting map in half and you can take those bases Zergling Run By if army is out of position Enter Army and attack once its blinked Keep lings in base if getting dropped/ build spine Spread Creep after first inject, walk 2nd queen to third Keep on changing rally point of bases to match army Keep Rally on bases, just transfer drones to prevent over saturation Chase probe, knowing where pylon is is very helpful Scout map early with zerglings If early pressure, delay gas, and get zerglings, start zergling speed, get roaches After pressure, pressure him and get all extractors(only for infestor zergling) If Dts, surround with zerglings, do not let it get anywhere Stephano vs Terran Plan: More defensive than playing against toss so more you want to go more tech heavy path on 2 base. Expand third with some troops to protect. Terran has the ability to split you up with drops and attack early so you want to be sure that you have the necessary tech to defend against this. Get Roach Zerging Infestor, then tech to broodlords very fast. Defend until broodlords come out Try to stay on two base then expand (Shakuras) On maps with easier to get thirds, try getting third before hellions come to kill drone. (Defend with roach spread creep). 3 Base Maps • 15 hatch, Scout 15 Make sure safe, 15-17 pool, 15-17 ex. Try to get as good of an economy as possible early to get an edge on opponent. • First 100 Gas Zergling Speed • Get third queen at natural/ spread creep to third • Get third before extractors(if helion depends on map) • Keep Drones in Gas to get • 44-50 food 3 more ex (when bases saturated) • Roach Warren 5min. When Factory gets ready(If one baracks expand( have a little more time 6:30 hellions) • 4Roaches then expand to third • 7min 2 Evo chamber (timed with the extractors) defend against banshes more gas for upgrades. • 8:00 Build Lair with upgrades(4 extractors should be running by now) +1 armor helps against tanks a lot • 8:30 macro hatch(or save money for defense • 9minutes get some units then only drone(to fight off push) PIVOTAL, get roach speed immediately • Transition to Infestors immediately when lair finishes ling infestor(some roaches left over) This will help you hold off his tank push • Full map control(creep spread your half of map) • Infestor 9-10 Minutes to Delay push 5 infestors not to many because you want to save for broodlords • Get expansions aggressively, its ok if one of them dies because you have a lot of minerals • Spire to Go down when hive goes down, expand multiples times before broodlords come out • 15 minutes get broodlords out (Don't build too many, just defend the ones you already have with corruptors/ infestors) 2base- On maps like shattered temple and taldarim, this will help you get early upgrades while building an early defense on two base will help you to kill the rocks to get your third • 15Hatch, 15 scout(if you know exactly where he is because drone will get there in time to see) 15pool, 17 Ex (keep on getting gas) • First 100 Speedlings • Third Queen Spread Creep • Roach Warren around 6min if 1 Racks Expand • 2nd Ex 50(Build Early Roaches to kill rocks wherever) Early defense as well so you can drone. • 7min Evo Chambers, time 3rd and 4th extractors( You need lots of gas to keep up unit production with upgrades) also this helps you defend against banshees. • Work on Upgrades • 7min Work towards expanding using built troops that are also used to defend against helions • 8-8:30min Lair • Right When Lair Finishes Get Infestor Pit, Roach Speed • Infestors when upgrade 30seconds in(Five infestors) • Tech to Broodlords Spire with Hive, 6 Broodlords only then rest corruptors, Infest vikings Tips in general Keep infestors on different hotkey and select all if you want to select army 1 overlord scout, 2nd overlord at natural( Do not want to be bunker rushed) To defend early bunker pull drones to kill marines first Then build zerglings and queens to defend perhaps build spine crawler if needed After you defense, you have to pressure and check out what he has. When he moves out, you move in to do damage then retreat Get 4-5 roaches against hellion to expand to spread creep Spread overlords to top half, bottom half of the map. Only spread certain overlords in key positions, keep rest in base prevent getting killed Scout to see if attack is coming... If not then drone a lot( Expand Aggressively after third pops and you are safe) Get upgrade first, at 30 seconds 5 Infestors then straight to hive Creep spread is to keep half side connected together Lategame creep spread is not as important Always scout and keep one base ahead, he cannot be aggressive while expanding Build building placement to split drones if you need to split! Run the drones through the maze of buildings Spread overlords early to spot medivac drops If ever feel like going to loose to big force, counter his base 2base, if under pressure get burrow for burrow micro not many scans Get macro if under attack and high on minerals Delay gases if being attacked Put drones around the bunker at different corners when trying to kill Get third before helions come, then get roaches to defend Build infestors when upgrade is 30 seconds in Focus down units that the medivac isnt healing Spread Creep tumors evenly, very important for zvt On Taldarim and shipyard, get zerglings first if you can't scout because you need to be safe from rush 2nd base different mineral rally point No gas at 15 from terran, should be 1 barracks expand or double racks if low scv count. If pressured early, make 1 spine to defend the queen Put spine just in range of bunker Its ok if your natural dies, just keep on building drones and transfer when you rebuild it, pressure with the defenses that you made If marines come, just take off drones and save zerglings Put up 2 spines if you feel an attack is coming For 2 Base play, get all extractors for double upgrades Get infestors right when lair finishes If behind try baneling bust zergling all in. If getting dropped try spread troops over all bases I normally play mutas but I'll alternate back and forth depending on the map and whether or not i scout terran is going to play hyper aggressive (3-4 rax before factories after first cc)... Biggest key that I can tell you when trying to play roach ling infestor is to MAKE MACRO HATCHERIES AND QUEENS. You will NEED the larva to stay ahead in supply and to re max because lings die if you look at them wrong during an engagement. Don't be that guy who makes 2 macro hatcheries but doesn't make queens to inject them. This style basically revolves around getting good surrounds and good fungals. You get them, you are cost efficient and likely will win. You miss them/lose your infestors needlessly/engage wrong, it's easy to lose and look really really silly doing it. If you're trying to attack into a sieged terran without using IT's to eat some tank shots, you're doing it wrong. Get burrow, it's good for harassing. I think 12 minute hive is too fast TBH. I like 14-15 depending on how many expansions you have. Also keep in mind when doing this style, ultras are super good cause you'll have upgrades for them mega fast, plus the cavern i think is under a minute after hive unlike GS which takes a long time. | ||
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RedThor
116 Posts
I'm switching to Z from T --- formerly diamond T, now I'm gold Z. I really lack an understanding of PvZ, focusing on PvZ right now. I tend to go 15 hatch 15 pool but I don't see many other people to this. Are there specific PvZ builds that are impossible to hold with 15/15 ? In PvZ, I tend to drone up a bit off 2 bases and then get a roach warren and evo chamber. I have a very hard time holding 4 gate aggression. Can you guys suggest a build that uses roaches as the main unit and can hold its own against the 4gate ? ZvZ I don't understand too well either but I tend to win a lot by getting an early hatchery, holding early aggression with some lings and a couple of spines and then going for a huge roach push once the 2 bases are near saturation. Is this a decent strategy or am I just winning because my opponents are super bad ? | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On March 22 2012 13:02 RedThor wrote: I'm switching to Z from T --- formerly diamond T, now I'm gold Z. I really lack an understanding of PvZ, focusing on PvZ right now. I tend to go 15 hatch 15 pool but I don't see many other people to this. Are there specific PvZ builds that are impossible to hold with 15/15 ? In PvZ, I tend to drone up a bit off 2 bases and then get a roach warren and evo chamber. I have a very hard time holding 4 gate aggression. Can you guys suggest a build that uses roaches as the main unit and can hold its own against the 4gate ? ZvZ I don't understand too well either but I tend to win a lot by getting an early hatchery, holding early aggression with some lings and a couple of spines and then going for a huge roach push once the 2 bases are near saturation. Is this a decent strategy or am I just winning because my opponents are super bad ? Never go 15h vs protoss, because anyone who's even moderately good at cannon rushing will basically just kill you outright. Better is 15 pool 16 hatch gasless with a third hatch around 25-30 food (this is assuming toss is going FFE). If someone is trying to 4 gate you then you can't make more than ~25 drones without outright dying. Best way to hold 4 gate is mass lings and 2-3 spines. Make sure to have one squad of lings out on the map to threaten to backstab his main or his proxy pylon, don't just sit in your base and let him get 2-3 warpins of units for free. ZvZ if you early expand and he goes speed first then you are at a big production lead if you macro properly. The roach attack off 2 bases is trying to exploit your production a bit down the road, but it's a decent plan, I see masters+gm players do it a lot. You just have to be prepared to have a lot of your games end right there, with him either holding it and winning or you just killing him exactly at that moment. | ||
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jumai
Canada115 Posts
On March 22 2012 03:40 Giku wrote: Hellions dive in and kill my drones, somehow it always happens, maybe not at first but it'll happen sometime. Mostly because of the big naturals, that I don't know how to defend it. Maybe I should position my queens a bit better.. Thing is, I always scout the drops, but I dont know how to stop them, say 2 medivacs come, my army is in the middle of the map. What do I send? Especially with multiple drops I get crazy, I do get spines at my 3rd/4th most of the time, but should I invest even more in spines for my main? As for mutaling, if I do get my mutas I'm relatively safe, I can just focus on my macro(whilst harrassing a bit) because the terran is afraid to move out. If I play infestor or go broodlord I don't know what the hell I'm doing, especially if they start dropping again, like where do I morph broods? Do I need more than just infestor support? What if I get dropped somewhere, broods are too slow, and can't ever be left alone right? Thanks for the tips&help so far !Hellions: I used to tear my hair out over this too. Then one day, after a failing a ling all-in triggered by losing all my drones to hellions, I just said "fuck it, I'll start walling in too then." By my logic, if two spines is not unheard-of and I'm already supposed to get an evo chamber for banshees, then I can start with that for free, and adding a second evo only has to save 2 drones before it's justified. And *oh my god* does it help. On most maps/spawn positions I wall across the choke leading into my natural (sometimes requires a queen on hold position for a full seal). On the rest, I wall from my ramp to my hatch ("nexus wall" style) with 3 structures, and put the 4th behind my outside gas to block off access behind my minerals. As long as I'm keeping my lings in the mineral line that's extremely safe as well... once I start being out on the map more I will at least position queens in the unwalled area. General ZvT: When are you getting your macro hatch? It sounds like you're dying as you try to move into the midgame, which is about when it starts to seem like marines are immune to zerglings from a two-hatch point of view. | ||
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M1cha84
Germany64 Posts
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lannisport
878 Posts
On March 22 2012 12:04 HyperionDreamer wrote: I normally play mutas but I'll alternate back and forth depending on the map and whether or not i scout terran is going to play hyper aggressive (3-4 rax before factories after first cc)... Biggest key that I can tell you when trying to play roach ling infestor is to MAKE MACRO HATCHERIES AND QUEENS. You will NEED the larva to stay ahead in supply and to re max because lings die if you look at them wrong during an engagement. Don't be that guy who makes 2 macro hatcheries but doesn't make queens to inject them. This style basically revolves around getting good surrounds and good fungals. You get them, you are cost efficient and likely will win. You miss them/lose your infestors needlessly/engage wrong, it's easy to lose and look really really silly doing it. If you're trying to attack into a sieged terran without using IT's to eat some tank shots, you're doing it wrong. Get burrow, it's good for harassing. I think 12 minute hive is too fast TBH. I like 14-15 depending on how many expansions you have. Also keep in mind when doing this style, ultras are super good cause you'll have upgrades for them mega fast, plus the cavern i think is under a minute after hive unlike GS which takes a long time. Okay so I tried out what I thought was the strategy and totally got smashed multiple times. Then I watched Stephano's stream and realized I didn't understand the strategy at all (i.e. the roach warren). I was getting my roach warren too early and I was droning way too hard and using the roach warren for way too specific of a purpose. Stephano seems to have a rough plan on how to open but he slightly deviates from it. He gets a few lings to defend from the first few helions, gets his roach warren at around 6 minutes+ (they're out by the time 6 helions are) and he starts planting extractors and either gets his third base at 7 or double evos depending on what the terran is doing. And then he starts to make units at around 9:30 (roaches and lings) depending on what the terran is doing (common theme?), and defends any pushes with them or puts on a bit of pressure. Roach speed and +1 carapace does wonders for depending pushes. And during that he transitions to infestors, expands like crazy. Any one with more experience using this build? Is it popular in EU? One thing I learned while watching Stephano's stream. He is damn good.... Not only is his control and map awareness flawless, but his drone timing, and gas timing is immaculate too! How do you guys control all your units on 1 hotkey.... He seems to like doing that. | ||
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alcaras
United States67 Posts
What are some current up-to-date infestorplay builds I can use on ladder to refine my infestor play? The wiki has some but they're all from ... August 2011. | ||
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sjurjh
Norway11 Posts
I try to do these simple multitasking task, but it affects my macro in different degrees resulting in hoarding about 2000 minerals while my supply is around 125. * I scout with the 10th drone. Try to attack the worker building barracks if playing vs. Terran and generally trying to keep my drone alive until i steel gas on some point. * I place 1 ling at opponents natural to see when he expands, 1 in front of ramp to see when he moves out and 1 on each tower and try to replace them / fight some for towers. * I try to harass with muta vs toss and terran. * I send in an overlord and try to click on buildings under construction. * I try to use infestors in the larger battles vs zerg (I expand at some point and go a roach/infestor build) My goal is to become as good as I can get whit limited playing time. Should I drop all this (except the basic scouting) and just focus on getting to 200/200 and then attack? If so, why does practicing macro lead faster to becoming a better player than practicing macro/multitasking? | ||
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ThomasHobbes
United States197 Posts
On March 22 2012 23:37 sjurjh wrote: I'm playing Zerg in top gold on the European server. People keep telling lower league players to practice macro, macro and macro until I am in diamond or even higher. Do they mean practice macro and multitasking as some few others say? I try to do these simple multitasking task, but it affects my macro in different degrees resulting in hoarding about 2000 minerals while my supply is around 125. * I scout with the 10th drone. Try to attack the worker building barracks if playing vs. Terran and generally trying to keep my drone alive until i steel gas on some point. * I place 1 ling at opponents natural to see when he expands, 1 in front of ramp to see when he moves out and 1 on each tower and try to replace them / fight some for towers. * I try to harass with muta vs toss and terran. * I send in an overlord and try to click on buildings under construction. * I try to use infestors in the larger battles vs zerg (I expand at some point and go a roach/infestor build) My goal is to become as good as I can get whit limited playing time. Should I drop all this (except the basic scouting) and just focus on getting to 200/200 and then attack? If so, why does practicing macro lead faster to becoming a better player than practicing macro/multitasking? Focusing on your macro will allow you to make the greatest gains in the shortest amount of time. He clearly have other areas that need work as well, but focusing on the broader picture will lead to slower improvement than just learning to build 200/200 roach by the 12 minute mark and bust down the Protoss's front door. And yes, doing that right will work against Protoss up through Masters. | ||
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sjurjh
Norway11 Posts
On March 23 2012 00:34 ThomasHobbes wrote: Focusing on your macro will allow you to make the greatest gains in the shortest amount of time. He clearly have other areas that need work as well, but focusing on the broader picture will lead to slower improvement than just learning to build 200/200 roach by the 12 minute mark and bust down the Protoss's front door. And yes, doing that right will work against Protoss up through Masters. Could you link me a replay showing me how to get to 200/200 roach by the 12 min mark? | ||
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