EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 215
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
On March 20 2012 00:10 beetlelisk wrote: How do I respond to ZvT 11gas 11/12 rax into reactor hellions? For hellions, unless it is a lot of hellions, you can definitely shutting this down by just making 3-4 queens with 1-2 spines. You don't have to make a lot of units. The key to hold hellion run-by is queen block. use 2 queens to block off the ramp to your main. Make sure you use hold position. If you are more gutsy (like me lol), you can put only one queen and make sure you place your queen right at the middle of the ramp and you have to hold position this time. Most of the time you can hold the ramp even if they try to run-by. After that, you can either start pumping lings after 2 base saturation, and try to chase the hellions and get a good surround. Or you can make a roach warren and make about 5-6 roaches to get back your map control vs hellions. I prefer roaches because my build is very tech heavy, and i need some beefy units to keep me alive early game before my upgrades kick in. I can attach my build order for you: 15 hatch 16 pool @ %100 pool 2 queens + 2 sets of lings (for scouting) 2 spines in natural as soon as you have money 2 more queens after the first 2 @44 supply 2 gases + roach warren + double evo chamber @50 supply get 2 more gases and as many roaches as you can get with the gas @100 gas lair @300 minerals macro hatch (or 3rd base if you feel safe) @150 gas +1 carapace @100 gas +1 melee (or +1 missle if you are sure he is going mech) @100 gas ling speed @100% lair roach speed + baneling nest | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On March 20 2012 00:18 lhr0909 wrote: For hellions, unless it is a lot of hellions, you can definitely shutting this down by just making 3-4 queens with 1-2 spines. You don't have to make a lot of units. The key to hold hellion run-by is queen block. use 2 queens to block off the ramp to your main. Make sure you use hold position. If you are more gutsy (like me lol), you can put only one queen and make sure you place your queen right at the middle of the ramp and you have to hold position this time. Most of the time you can hold the ramp even if they try to run-by. After that, you can either start pumping lings after 2 base saturation, and try to chase the hellions and get a good surround. Or you can make a roach warren and make about 5-6 roaches to get back your map control vs hellions. I prefer roaches because my build is very tech heavy, and i need some beefy units to keep me alive early game before my upgrades kick in. I can attach my build order for you: 15 hatch 16 pool @ %100 pool 2 queens + 2 sets of lings (for scouting) 2 spines in natural as soon as you have money 2 more queens after the first 2 @44 supply 2 gases + roach warren + double evo chamber @50 supply get 2 more gases and as many roaches as you can get with the gas @100 gas lair @300 minerals macro hatch (or 3rd base if you feel safe) @150 gas +1 carapace @100 gas +1 melee (or +1 missle if you are sure he is going mech) @100 gas ling speed @100% lair roach speed + baneling nest I think it's Queens that I lacked but the problem is the hellions come extremely early if he goes gas first. The factory was like 1/2 done before my pool was even completed and I go 15 pool. Run by just obliterated my drones and I get roach warren faster myself, instead of 4th queen. The game was played on Tal darim which has entry to the main wider than ramps on other maps. I would have to play against this again and see if I could make queens in time. Thanks for your reply  | ||
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tehcaekftw
Denmark138 Posts
And then, how do i play ling/infestor in ZvT? ITs ontop of his marines/tanks for friendly fire, then run lings in and some fungals, or? Im platinum-diamond if it matters any | ||
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willverrecken
80 Posts
On March 20 2012 03:11 tehcaekftw wrote: What are the proper responces to terran bunkering my ramp with multiple SCVs and some rines and protoss cannoning my natural/ramp? I've heard 4 or 6 drones can stop the cannons if you attack the pylon but he then just builds another pylon or two and i cant get them down in time. I heard i should take an expo somewhere before the cannons are up? And then, how do i play ling/infestor in ZvT? ITs ontop of his marines/tanks for friendly fire, then run lings in and some fungals, or? Im platinum-diamond if it matters any | ||
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tehcaekftw
Denmark138 Posts
Im not being blocked in, its like one or two bunkers close to so i can run things through but it dies the moment it goes out, and with P its one or two pylons and some cannons, again not blocking but just killing anything walking out. | ||
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
On March 20 2012 03:11 tehcaekftw wrote: What are the proper responces to terran bunkering my ramp with multiple SCVs and some rines and protoss cannoning my natural/ramp? I've heard 4 or 6 drones can stop the cannons if you attack the pylon but he then just builds another pylon or two and i cant get them down in time. I heard i should take an expo somewhere before the cannons are up? And then, how do i play ling/infestor in ZvT? ITs ontop of his marines/tanks for friendly fire, then run lings in and some fungals, or? Im platinum-diamond if it matters any vs T's bunker rush, as soon as you see bunker goes down, you do the following: 1. stop getting gas (or only 1 drone in gas) 2. grab 6+ drones down to a) 4 target on bunkers b) rest on the building scv (use a-move or target fire, whichever you like) c) if you see marines coming, the drones should target the marines first before the scv (or leave 1 vs scv, rest of them chasing the marine(s) out) optimally you want to pull about 9 drones at once, then move some to mine your natural if you think you don't need that many. A good bunker rush can cost all of your drones if you don't react quickly enough. vs P's cannon rush, you want to do: 1. pull as many drones as you need to hold position on the bottom ramp to prevent that probe from walling you in 2. 4 drones target on a building cannon 3. 2-3 drones target on the probe if the cannon(s) do(es) go down, you need to: 1. put spine(s) (1 to 2) to prevent more cannons up the ramp 2. build 1 extra queen to creep spread 3. drone to 1 base saturation 4. get baneling nest / roach warren to break out of contain (to your preference) usually you will be very behind if you do get contained, so just be careful while you play, if you are super afraid of cannons, make sure you have 1 drone chasing the probe at all times once you see it scouting. | ||
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Sra
Netherlands75 Posts
Thx | ||
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nanoscorp
United States1237 Posts
I've started just tossing lings behind my mineral lines once I'm thinking about moving out. In a production cycle, just make 5-6 sets of lings and rally them behind a potentially vulnerable mineral line, or park them at the most likely drop spot. Park Overlords along drop paths as well. Finally, send individual zerglings or overlords to unclaimed bases. I've seen incoming drops thanks to ling scouts quite a few times. Since you play an infestor style, here's another tip that works for me with infestors. Keep 2 or 3 infestors back, at a central location in your base, on a separate hotkey. They're pretty slow compared to speedlings, so they have to be close to home to be useful when responding to drops. Best case, you spot the drop on the way in, and chain-fungal it over empty space. If he manages to drop the marines, you can still fungal before they start killing all your drones. Clean it up with speedlings on the ground and queens attacking the medivacs. | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:47 Sra wrote: do you guys have any tips against drop play terrans, i started using infestors instead of muta's recently and ive lost a few games due to missing only one drop and they wipe my tech before i can even reach it. im also having a hard time putting pressure back on terran when they keep dropping me. Im in platinum league. Thx This advice will be a bit special : play a few days without any sound (you can keep some music if you want). I can guarantee that you will spread your ovies and watch the minimap with much more efficiency. I mean, I just watched Polt vs Stephano on Daybreak, and he stopped the constant drops with only lings, festors, and ultras. So, yes, he managed to spot the drops and defend his base with just this. Edit : Even a few games will dramatically improve your minimap awareness | ||
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nonsequitur
384 Posts
With Ling/Infestor, don't send your entire army to defend 1 drop. Just box a small amount of lings and send them. The key is to remain calm and keep up with injects and upgrades. If possible build spores + spines near your mineral lines, really helps to damage the medivacs so your queens can kill it. | ||
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spatz
Germany153 Posts
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HansenKuo13
3 Posts
I got wrecked... I saw the push coming, probably a bit late and by that time my roach warren wasnt finished yet so i went ahead and made a bunch of lings...and got dominated. Any advice? Im still like rank 13 bronze so any help would be nice http://drop.sc/136461 | ||
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On March 20 2012 11:08 HansenKuo13 wrote: Wow ok so i normally win against Hard AI and this time i tried going stephano style against protoss AI so i could practice before going on ladder I got wrecked... I saw the push coming, probably a bit late and by that time my roach warren wasnt finished yet so i went ahead and made a bunch of lings...and got dominated. Any advice? Im still like rank 13 bronze so any help would be nice http://drop.sc/136461 Scout better and have your roach warren up in time? Needless to say practicing vs AI is terrible, they have retarded timings that could never happen in a real game due to how they build stuff. There's not much else to advice since it wasn't a real game, but the basics is that it's all about scouting and droning till you have to make units, and that should never be when he's already walking towards your base. | ||
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
Am I missing something here? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 20 2012 14:32 Karak wrote: Is ZvT on Cloud Kingdom one of those "must all-in vs competent masters T" maps like close position Metal and ST used to be? Or am I just missing something? I haven't won a ZvT on this map all season despite doing quite well on every other one. I can't deny their 3rd, the cliffs everywhere make my 4th incredibly vulnerable and the tanks from his main watch all 3 of his main bases + tanks from his 3rd can watch his building 4th. Am I missing something here? I feel cloud kingdom is really hard vs a good terran. It is why I veto'd the map, it's just kinda bad imo with how hard it is to get and maintain a fourth. Not sure what the best playstyle is other then ling/infestor but I do think it is hard to get a 4'th, let alone keep it. | ||
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-KarakStarcraft-
United States258 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:08 blade55555 wrote: I feel cloud kingdom is really hard vs a good terran. It is why I veto'd the map, it's just kinda bad imo with how hard it is to get and maintain a fourth. Not sure what the best playstyle is other then ling/infestor but I do think it is hard to get a 4'th, let alone keep it. ya I remember you telling me when the season began that cloud was an "insta veto" and i made fun of you. i am sorry for doing this :-(. | ||
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KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:08 blade55555 wrote: I feel cloud kingdom is really hard vs a good terran. It is why I veto'd the map, it's just kinda bad imo with how hard it is to get and maintain a fourth. Not sure what the best playstyle is other then ling/infestor but I do think it is hard to get a 4'th, let alone keep it. When I was watching MorroW's stream he was playing a counter attack muta/ling/bane on it. I guess repeatedly trying to deny the t third while having some ling/bane left at home to either crush a fast push that neglects seiging tanks or give time for mutas to get home for a slow push after doing damage to the third. But that third is really sim city friendly, so i can see how that is easily beaten. Maybe a 3base hive build to control the high ground and secure the two low ground bases? Only two builds I've had success with on that map. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:47 Sra wrote: do you guys have any tips against drop play terrans, i started using infestors instead of muta's recently and ive lost a few games due to missing only one drop and they wipe my tech before i can even reach it. im also having a hard time putting pressure back on terran when they keep dropping me. Im in platinum league. Thx Now I play muta so maybe getting a baneling nest is out of the question, but basically once I have 3 bases or later, when drops become an issue, t is dropping a lot, close air, or faraway third or im spread out, I will patrol 3 banelings from where t might unload, like behind the line of sight blockers on metal, to the mineral line. that way, when a drop occurs, the banes hit him. I always have overlord spread, so the idea is I use the banes to force t to micro or lose his marines. Most of the time the banes kill his clumped marines on patrol, but if I see him micro, I pull back the banes, and it buys time for my army or mutas. As the game goes longer, I take further ezpos, or I transition into slow broodlords, I increase the bane count to maybe 5 at the most vulnerable bases and maybe patrol along 2 bases per group, and add 3 to 5 spines. No drop is getting past 5 banes 5 spines. Having to turn around a pure bl infestor army extreme lategame while trying to deny t last base can cause you the game, or worse, losing a base just to a single drop. Even in midgame, you never want to be denied the ability to counterattack, or let t run all the way up to your base uncontested because you have to pull mutas just to deal with a drop, or not be able to completely destroy an unsieged t, or put on harras s pressure with your mutas because of a drop. ideally, you never want to pull your units away from the offensive, to deal with a drop defensively. Anytime you arent threatening a counterattack or pressure, because of a drop, sucks so later on, add a few spines, patrol a few banes, and when drop comes, grab the banes and micro them if hemicros his marines, at least to buy time | ||
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