EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 209
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:33 Effay wrote: Okay, i was doing 2 base muta on TDA vs. a toss that 1 gate FE'd, and i scouted him at 6:00 and saw basically nothing, and then when i had my mutas in his base i saw him doing an 8 gate +2 blink stalker all in. What exactly are you supposed to do to hold that off? Or is 2 base muta a BO loss vs. that? You never want to go muta whilst the possibility of an all in is still there, so it kind of is BO loss. If you scout it you can throw down a lot of spines but even then, he can just take a 3rd whilst you're stuck on 2 base. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:03 Host- wrote: How do you hold a 14/14 ling bling all in when going 14 hatch 15 pool 15 gas. Even when I get my bling nest before speed, and a spine and my nat straight away I just die. Is it a matter of putting down 2+ spines? I don't see how else to hold it. You'll want at least 1 spine, then you can put down more spines if he hasn't made an attempt to expand. Just don't saturate your expansion until your opponent places his expo hatch or you know it's safe. It's also possible to hold if you build a roach warren just after your pool finishes, but then you lose the eco advantage of going hatch first. | ||
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meatbox
Australia349 Posts
 I've been playing for some time now, I have close to 500 career wins and have only played zerg (98+% of the time). I've been taught by a high diamond league zerg on SEA (equivalent to masters on NA) to hotkey hatcheries to 6, queens to 5 and to inject via minimap. Professionals do it differently though, DRG hotkeys hatcheries to 5,6,7,8 etc, not sure how he injects, are there more effective methods I could be using? | ||
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SnakeChomp
Canada125 Posts
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meatbox
Australia349 Posts
On March 11 2012 12:53 SnakeChomp wrote: If I haven't played for a while (long enough to be forgotten by the ladder), should I aim to play what ever the standard meta game is now or is it more important to just refresh mechanical things like macro and expanding? What IS the current meta for the 3 matchups anyway? Most noobs are doing placement around 4-6pm on NA server, you should get the 5 placement wins easy. You could join zerg/protoss/terran strategy chatrooms and ask for 1v1s to warm up. | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
Im a diamond zerg~ | ||
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lodeet
United States147 Posts
On March 11 2012 12:21 meatbox wrote: Should I make my own thread on hotkeys and methods on injects? Nonetheless I'll inform you of my queries I've been playing for some time now, I have close to 500 career wins and have only played zerg (98+% of the time). I've been taught by a high diamond league zerg on SEA (equivalent to masters on NA) to hotkey hatcheries to 6, queens to 5 and to inject via minimap. Professionals do it differently though, DRG hotkeys hatcheries to 5,6,7,8 etc, not sure how he injects, are there more effective methods I could be using? Everyone has their own style of using injects and if you search you will find several different methods. People claim that they have the fastest method but in reality it's all personal preference. I don't like clicking on the minimap because you have to be very accurate. I instead bound my tilde key to base center in my options. This way with all my queens bound to 1 key I can hold shift+v and and hit tilde to cycle my camera to each base and click on the hatch for injecting. Find something that works well for you and stick with it. It cannot hurt to try something else if you don't like your current method. What are creative builds/strategies/unit comps for zerg that i can try out? Im jealous of what terran and protoss can do, zerg always does the same macro style of playing unless he/she is doing some all in. Im a diamond zerg~ There are many strategies you can implement to your game play. The hard part is doing them effectively. baneling drops on fungal'd units or mineral lines, using burrowed banelings, doing infestor drops behind mineral lines, using nydus canals offensively or establishing networks between bases at late game to transfer units around quickly. I don't know what you consider the "same macro style" to be but I think there are definitely many different strategic possibilites that work well. Unit compositions really depend on what your opponent is doing but I suggest you use your imagination and develop your own strategies and test them out. One of my favorites vs a protoss who doesn't wall off is proxy hatching in their main. A base in your base is always fun. | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
On March 11 2012 23:30 lodeet wrote: There are many strategies you can implement to your game play. The hard part is doing them effectively. baneling drops on fungal'd units or mineral lines, using burrowed banelings, doing infestor drops behind mineral lines, using nydus canals offensively or establishing networks between bases at late game to transfer units around quickly. I don't know what you consider the "same macro style" to be but I think there are definitely many different strategic possibilites that work well. Unit compositions really depend on what your opponent is doing but I suggest you use your imagination and develop your own strategies and test them out. One of my favorites vs a protoss who doesn't wall off is proxy hatching in their main. A base in your base is always fun. Hmm all that is more mid game late midgame or lategame strategy. Im talking about unorthodox build orders and unit compositions(for example Real used Phoenix/Dt against zerg and MKP with his mass marine style), a while back there used to be a 1 base muta build for example. With macro style i mean that zerg always tries to get as greedy as possible and usually get 3 saturated bases before really doing any pressure or attacks. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On March 11 2012 23:18 Guamshin wrote: What are creative builds/strategies/unit comps for zerg that i can try out? Im jealous of what terran and protoss can do, zerg always does the same macro style of playing unless he/she is doing some all in. Im a diamond zerg~ Here's how I went through your thought process when I was frustrated with boring macro play in low masters: - Zerg is boring macro macro, I want excitement. - Tried baneling drops. Okay, that only works against certain Toss compositions. - Tried nydus, laughed at how terrible it is. - Tried hydra drops, only counters 2 SG. - Tried proxy hatches and such, fun for the lols but only a 1 time ladder build if it works. - Tried a variety of roach/baneling all ins, depends on opponent never scouting. - Went back to playing macro. Basically, if you want creativity and BO variety, switch to Terran. | ||
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Ambtenaar
Netherlands21 Posts
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
On March 12 2012 00:04 Flonomenalz wrote: Here's how I went through your thought process when I was frustrated with boring macro play in low masters: - Zerg is boring macro macro, I want excitement. - Tried baneling drops. Okay, that only works against certain Toss compositions. - Tried nydus, laughed at how terrible it is. - Tried hydra drops, only counters 2 SG. - Tried proxy hatches and such, fun for the lols but only a 1 time ladder build if it works. - Tried a variety of roach/baneling all ins, depends on opponent never scouting. - Went back to playing macro. Basically, if you want creativity and BO variety, switch to Terran. On March 12 2012 00:26 Ambtenaar wrote: Funny how people play zerg but whine about how boring it is and how many options T and P have @Flonomenalz I didn't say i was bored i just want to know if there are any other options then just going macro style. @Ambtenaar In what way is my comment whiny? Did i say it was boring? You better read through the posts once more. | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
On March 11 2012 23:58 Guamshin wrote: Hmm all that is more mid game late midgame or lategame strategy. Im talking about unorthodox build orders and unit compositions(for example Real used Phoenix/Dt against zerg and MKP with his mass marine style), a while back there used to be a 1 base muta build for example. With macro style i mean that zerg always tries to get as greedy as possible and usually get 3 saturated bases before really doing any pressure or attacks. You could 11 hatch O.o, its a 1 queen fast 3rd base macro style. Ive got build order up to like 50 supply (like vs forge fe) and you can diverge based on scouting at any point. I beat a few GM protoss with it so i like it. Its weird tho xD here ill put the build in spoiler + Show Spoiler + Extended Version -10/10 extractor trick+drone -11/10 hatch, send at 220 minerals -10/10 overlord -10/10 extractor trick+drone -as ovie pops 2x drones rallied to natural -next larva is drone, comes right at 50 minerals -micro drones in natural and 14/18 pool -one drone then 14/18 gas -drone until 17/18 -put guys in gas 1 at a time -17/18 drone in natural -18/20 overlord in main -18/20 queen in natural (you have 150 right as pool pops if you did it right) -20/28 2x sets of lings in main -drone to 24/28 -24/28 ling speed, pull off gas 1 at a time -24/28 overlord -spawn larva and send drone to 3rd -31/36 3rd hatch at 3rd base, aim for 5:15 under no pressure -put 3 back on gas right after starting 3rd base -build evo at ~30 gas to have 100 gas for +1 melee when it finishes -3rd set of queen energy is either tumor in your natural, then run to 3rd or run to 3rd after 2nd inject for tumor at your 3rd base once that hatch finishes -your 3rd set of energy will be at 40/44 supply, right as you inject build 2 more queens to hit 44/44 -overlord on 44/44, then +1 melee (or as soon as your evo is done and have money for it), then 4th hatch usually as a macro hatch. -after +1 melee is started your next 100 gas is for lair, your queen in main should finish right about when you get 100 gas to start lair. -make 4th queen for your 4th hatch when the hatch is 50% (and it will finish when hatch finishes), if you don't have enough drones to support the hatch you can spread creep with 4th queen in the meantime. -overlord speed for creep spreading is useful to get shortly after lair finishes, as well as an overseer to scout your opponent Notes: -Try to make all ovies in main because it is already saturated, that way other larva for drones are closer to unsaturated bases -Spread your 1 tumor constantly -extra queen for 100% spreading tumors is good habit -spreading overlords for vision, and for creep after ovie speed -build drones at hatch nearest to where drones are headed (unsaturated bases) -take gases for a reason, like if you plan to go muta/infestor take all gases but if going ling, bling take only 3-4 gas. -constantly be using your evo's to upgrade -backup roach warren or baneling nest prevents many dumb losses against surprise mass chargelot -early or late overlords result in hurt income. Its an easy way to optimize your play, don't take it for granted. Vs Terran: -speed kicks in shortly after 2 hellions can be at your base, do small amount of queen micro and you can hold them off until speed kicks in. -against gas-first hellion build your lings meet the hellions half way acros map, don't build 3rd, build 1 spine crawler soon as u scout it and pull drones into main and queen to ramp. Build 4-6 slow lings so your queen can move from the ramp to spawn larva in natural without letting hellions runby. -sneak a ling to his natural to check when he swaps addons. Typically they swap after 4 hellions, some do it after 6, and some even 8-10 hellions. If he makes more than 4 you should start roach warren and an extra gas as you start the warren. -hydras are your go-to unit. I like to be on 4 gases until I have my 4th somewhat saturated then start infestor pit and hive for ultra lategame. Hydras are decent dps against marines but only if you have lings infront of them. Hydras can also kill drops very fast, about 4 hydras can kill a drop before it can fly away. -overlord speed is very useful in creep spreading especially when using hydras. Vs Protoss: -you can overseer scout at 8:30 or as soon as your lair finishes, this tells you if you need to make roaches to stop his 2 base timing, whether you should mass lings or just tech/upgrade -fast +1 melee compliments fast +2 baneling drop style vs protoss -with your first 4 lings you should scout the entire map for proxy pylons with excess apm. DT take almost a full minute longer to run from his base to your base, thats 7:30 instead of 6:30 which is a huge difference. Also makes pushes much easier to defend because you see it coming quicker or he will push without doing a last warpin. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
The only one i know is 4:30-5:00 for four gate. | ||
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HoBb3
Sweden38 Posts
On March 11 2012 23:18 Guamshin wrote: What are creative builds/strategies/unit comps for zerg that i can try out? Im jealous of what terran and protoss can do, zerg always does the same macro style of playing unless he/she is doing some all in. Im a diamond zerg~ Zerg doesnt really have many creative strategies, or strategies over all that evolves early agression, but sure there is some for ex. vP: 2 base ling infestor (nuke toss natural with infested terrans)->2 expand and hive. Destiny used to do this alot. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246100 Hydra ling drop(followed by mutas) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203996 3Bae borrowed roach I've ssen slush use this quite a bit. Getting 2 roachwarrens for both roach speed and tunneling claws. vZ: 1base infestor Catz used to do this quite a bit. Rushing for borrowed infestors to harras with. 1base nydus roach queen Getting quite a early lair to nydus your opponents main with a bunch of roaches and 4 queens for transfuse. Dont know any "creative" build agains terran, or maby the doom drop zenio did agains kas. The beginning is always boring for zerg, but when your around the 15 min mark you can start muta harrasing, dropping everywhere at once, infested terran harras etc. | ||
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lubu42
United States314 Posts
On March 11 2012 23:18 Guamshin wrote: What are creative builds/strategies/unit comps for zerg that i can try out? Im jealous of what terran and protoss can do, zerg always does the same macro style of playing unless he/she is doing some all in. Im a diamond zerg~ Something you could try that's really strong but very commonly known already is a 14 pool 15 hatch into roach with a timing push. It's VERY effective against T and P and strongly recommend it. Got to masters using this strat! | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On March 12 2012 06:47 lubu42 wrote: Something you could try that's really strong but very commonly known already is a 14 pool 15 hatch into roach with a timing push. It's VERY effective against T and P and strongly recommend it. Got to masters using this strat! What.... this post doesn't explain anything at all, and hatch first is standard against T. | ||
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Ckalvin
Australia150 Posts
On March 12 2012 04:43 Eee wrote: Can someone tell me timings where you should be scouting against protoss (overlord/ling scout)? The only one i know is 4:30-5:00 for four gate. around 6:30-7 is when I'm saccing an ovie in. Sentries are a super welcome sight because it means there's no dt/stargate rush coming. Running in two lings is good to on nats that are a bit more open, one's not enough since cannons rip em apart. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On March 12 2012 04:43 Eee wrote: Can someone tell me timings where you should be scouting against protoss (overlord/ling scout)? The only one i know is 4:30-5:00 for four gate. It depends on what opening Protoss went for. If he opened forge fast expand then sending in your overlord at 7 minutes is a good idea. If he opened with a gateway expand send in a overlord at around 5:30 and keep scouting his natural to see if he is going to expand. Here's a few other timings associated with zvp. Timings vs DT openers = have evo down by 6:30 for gateway openers or vs FFE have evo down by 8:00 (can also help vs air) If your opponent goes for a FFE his warpgate normaly wont be ready until 8:30 and for gateway expands its around 6:00. | ||
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