EPTOther issue, to avoid silly macro games vs turtling terran could you suggest a nice build to attack before siege tanks on high ground? really annoyed to struggle just to break in vs 1-2 base plays.
Thanks!!
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 207
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
|
AlmightyRaiden
Mexico59 Posts
Other issue, to avoid silly macro games vs turtling terran could you suggest a nice build to attack before siege tanks on high ground? really annoyed to struggle just to break in vs 1-2 base plays. Thanks!! | ||
|
Tal0n
United States175 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:41 AlmightyRaiden wrote: Hi, i'm having troubles lately against 1-2 base allins (i play zerg), seems that no matter what units i build or what quantity i just lose badly to stalker/immortal or other strong balls, is it an upgrade issue? because i almost always go double evo chamber, and yes, may be worth mentioning that i always go for macro games and yes i scout it but nothing i can do to prepare apparently..noting that positioning it's sometimes the issue. Other issue, to avoid silly macro games vs turtling terran could you suggest a nice build to attack before siege tanks on high ground? really annoyed to struggle just to break in vs 1-2 base plays. Thanks!! don't try to tech too quickly to infestor or anything. just make a 4rth hatchery on 3 bases, have lots of drones, and hit all your injections. don't make a lot of units before you see him move out to favor drone production. greedy is good. if you lose because you made too many drones, next game just make 5 less. ling roach beats any gateway heavy 2 base push. against terran: do what artosis calls "high economy baneling aggression" - that is 2 queens, 2 hatches, no lair and an expansion soon. you can have like 25 banes before his siegemode finishes. if you choose to make an expansion and drones behind this, it is enough to kill his first tank, some depots, and some marines/scvs with your bling/ling army. don't be afraid to lose all your lings too but make sure you start making units on time so you don't die if he tries to counter immediately. (you should make your larvae into drones after you start morphing your banes) | ||
|
AlmightyRaiden
Mexico59 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:52 Tal0n wrote: don't try to tech too quickly to infestor or anything. just make a 4rth hatchery on 3 bases, have lots of drones, and hit all your injections. don't make a lot of units before you see him move out to favor drone production. greedy is good. if you lose because you made too many drones, next game just make 5 less. ling roach beats any gateway heavy 2 base push. against terran: do what artosis calls "high economy baneling aggression" - that is 2 queens, 2 hatches, no lair and an expansion soon. you can have like 25 banes before his siegemode finishes. if you choose to make an expansion and drones behind this, it is enough to kill his first tank, some depots, and some marines/scvs with your bling/ling army. don't be afraid to lose all your lings too but make sure you start making units on time so you don't die if he tries to counter immediately. (you should make your larvae into drones after you start morphing your banes) Thanks, very good answer, i now inderstand that sometimes i tech up too early and i'm very week before i get up enough units and if i loose 1 hatchery in the process i will struggle getting anything up at all. I'll try now vs protoss to see if my units melt less | ||
|
ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
| ||
|
AlmightyRaiden
Mexico59 Posts
On March 09 2012 07:56 ThirdDegree wrote: Hey guys, I'm a plat toss that has just switched over to zerg. I know there are all sorts of threads about making a switch and I have read most of them. The real question I have is do you have any suggestions for instructional streams? I watch a few, but most of the people just play. What zergs stream in the style of white-ra or incontrol? One who walks you through the methods and thought processes that are going on. I know Destiny does it occasionally and I do watch his stream. Thanks! If you're looking for something low level to help you step up there's a very nice tutorial series by dApollo on youtube, it's called something like from bronze to masters, very interesting and shows how to deal with pretty much anything and it's played all the way. | ||
|
Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On March 09 2012 08:05 AlmightyRaiden wrote: If you're looking for something low level to help you step up there's a very nice tutorial series by dApollo on youtube, it's called something like from bronze to masters, very interesting and shows how to deal with pretty much anything and it's played all the way. I'm not sure because I don't normally watch his stream, but I think Sheth might talk through his thought process. | ||
|
ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
| ||
|
Drmooose
United States390 Posts
(I've jumped around and seen a lot of random masters/gm players including myself that "try" to do the same and may be of some help to you too) feel free to msg me with any specifics! | ||
|
AlmightyRaiden
Mexico59 Posts
On March 09 2012 08:06 Chewbacca. wrote: I'm not sure because I don't normally watch his stream, but I think Sheth might talk through his thought process. I love Sheth but if one wants to ladder up from the bottom dApollo shows actually himself starting in bronze and hence more interesting if you are on those leagues as it shows how to deal with all kind of crazy staff. I would watch pros (to learn) if i was diamond/master and wanted to improve, but in lower leagues doens't make sense learn macro god mode when you get only 1-2 base allins or cheese. The best suggestion i've got so far is "read the game" easier said than done but it actually changes everything and makes the game far more enjoyable since no longer playing in the dark and hope for the best. | ||
|
DeadManLol
Canada1 Post
How do you inject larvae fast enough? and How do you rebind keys and those camera locations I kept seeing around and since I mostly played toss in my sc2 experience and my macro is somewhat terrible. And what are some BO for Zerg? or should I concentrate on improving macro first? any advice? | ||
|
KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
On March 09 2012 14:09 DeadManLol wrote: I am a Gold toss player and planning to switch to Zerg and I need some help How do you inject larvae fast enough? and How do you rebind keys and those camera locations I kept seeing around and since I mostly played toss in my sc2 experience and my macro is somewhat terrible. And what are some BO for Zerg? or should I concentrate on improving macro first? any advice? I personally use hotkeys 5-8 for queens, and just using 55v66v77v is plenty fast. You can look up more specific BO's on liquidpedia/replays/casts/streams, but a few simple ones are: ZvT: 15 hatch 15 pool 18 gas 17 overlord ZvP 14pool 16 hatch. (you can either make an overlord first, or if don't you can make 2 sets of lings, leaving you at 17/18 supply: build a queen then make and cancel an extractor, then an overlord right afterward) If he went FFE, take your third around 23-30 food, and if he went gateway first add a gas geyser at 22. ZvZ open 14gas 14pool 21 hatchery, take 1-2 guys off gas when you reach 100, research speed then throw down a baneling nest and adjust your drone count on gas to 2 total if necessary. (that means if you only kept 1 on gas during the time until you got your baneling nest add a second one onto gas) | ||
|
courtpanda
866 Posts
context: diamond zerg, always hatch first, because it "counters 14/14", and because barely anyone 6-10 pools | ||
|
SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
On March 09 2012 23:19 courtpanda wrote: how does hatch first counter 14/14? context: diamond zerg, always hatch first, because it "counters 14/14", and because barely anyone 6-10 pools "Counter" is a strong word. It's not a BO win, but your first 6 lings should pop just as his' arrive at your front door. From there, you have double the production capacity, but you need to be wary of speed, which should complete for him before it completes for you. It's a small early advantage if you play it out correctly, and small advantages are sometimes all you need in a mirror. | ||
|
HelloSon
United States456 Posts
| ||
|
HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On March 09 2012 23:55 SeinGalton wrote: "Counter" is a strong word. It's not a BO win, but your first 6 lings should pop just as his' arrive at your front door. From there, you have double the production capacity, but you need to be wary of speed, which should complete for him before it completes for you. It's a small early advantage if you play it out correctly, and small advantages are sometimes all you need in a mirror. Yeah, it's not a hard counter, but it gives you a production advantage. My advice is not to attempt to get roaches out to defend, because roaches are simply terrible in small numbers, and that's all that you will have in the early stages of the game. I do the following, and it works almost 100% of the time (hatch first auto loses to 10 pool, so that makes up for almost all my ZvZ losses these days): - 15h/15p/17g - 17 overlord - 4-6 lings + 2 queens when the pool finishes - @100% hatchery - 1 spine crawler (replace the drone) - 3 drones on gas immediately - @50 gas - baneling nest if he went 14/14, otherwise save up for ling speed if it's hatch first vs hatch first. if you get this fast bane nest, pull 1 guy off gas (otherwise you will accumulate too much) - spend next 100 gas on 4 defensive banes if your opponent is pressuring you, regardless of whether or not he expanded behind his 14/14 - if your opponent went hatch first, drone a bit and go into a standard game from there (roach/infestor, muta, whatever you want) I find that 14/14 (or earlier) ling baneling allins just completely destroy you if you attempt to get roaches out to defend, especially if he throws down a hatch around 21 and then just constantly makes ling bane to bust you, and if you go speed first against a 14/14 then he will have speed and banes before you even have speed finished. This means that you basically die 100% of the time unless your micro is absolutely godlike. In addition, on maps where your main ramp is not close to or behind your hatchery, ling runbys are a serious threat if you are trying to get roaches out (maps like entombed and shattered temple come to mind). This nest timing allows you to get your banes up in time to trade effectively with his ling/baneling attack. The reason I started doing this is because speed is honestly not that important when you are defending a hatchery first vs 14/14. It becomes very important in the midgame because you can scout, deny expansions while taking your own, and poke his units to check his timings, but it doesn't make your lings attack faster. Early on, the fight will be taking place at your natural if it happens at all, so I feel comfortable skipping speed until later in the game. If he just goes ling speed and expands, you should have an overlord there to check it, and the 4 defensive banes are still useful because you know that you are completely safe until he either gets roaches out or his own banelings. That same overlord should pull back after you see him expand, and constantly keep an eye on it since you will be able to see whether units are coming towards you. | ||
|
RibsNGibs
64 Posts
If a protoss has a cannon in/near my base that I need to kill (I'm talking super early game... say he's put a cannon or two by my expo, at a time I want to make as few lings as possible), what's a good, safe, number of lings that I should make to kill it? By "safe" I mean I might lose a ling just being stupid, like forgetting to hold position and one gets pulled and killed before I notice, or my lings and queen aren't perfectly synced so the queen spends an extra 2 seconds getting in range, or it takes me a second or two to grab a few lings stuck in the back and run them around to the other side of the minerals for more surface area, or other general micro fails like that (I'm in platinum; I suck). I guess I'm looking for general ballpark numbers for "How many lings should I build to kill"... 1) a cannon where I can get good surface area, with a queen helping 2) a cannon where I can get good surface area, without a queen and then how many extra I should bring for extra cannons, or a cannon in an awkward spot. Thanks, | ||
|
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:13 RibsNGibs wrote: Hi, I have a simple question, I think. If a protoss has a cannon in/near my base that I need to kill (I'm talking super early game... say he's put a cannon or two by my expo, at a time I want to make as few lings as possible), what's a good, safe, number of lings that I should make to kill it? By "safe" I mean I might lose a ling just being stupid, like forgetting to hold position and one gets pulled and killed before I notice, or my lings and queen aren't perfectly synced so the queen spends an extra 2 seconds getting in range, or it takes me a second or two to grab a few lings stuck in the back and run them around to the other side of the minerals for more surface area, or other general micro fails like that (I'm in platinum; I suck). I guess I'm looking for general ballpark numbers for "How many lings should I build to kill"... 1) a cannon where I can get good surface area, with a queen helping 2) a cannon where I can get good surface area, without a queen and then how many extra I should bring for extra cannons, or a cannon in an awkward spot. Thanks, You should honestly pull drones to prevent the cannon from finishing if he is just putting a pylon blocking the expo and then putting a cannon there. There is no reason to let that cannon go up. If you for some reason just don't like pulling drones which would be 4 to stop this, then you have to make probably 8 lings + queen to kill it (might be 6), but that is only if there is one. | ||
|
RibsNGibs
64 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:18 blade55555 wrote: You should honestly pull drones to prevent the cannon from finishing if he is just putting a pylon blocking the expo and then putting a cannon there. There is no reason to let that cannon go up. If you for some reason just don't like pulling drones which would be 4 to stop this, then you have to make probably 8 lings + queen to kill it (might be 6), but that is only if there is one. Thanks. Yeah, I actually usually kill it before it finishes - it's just every once in a while I lose track of his probe or for whatever reason he manages to build the cannon outside of the expo hatch's vision range (behind the minerals for example) and it goes up without me noticing. I usually freak out and way overbuild lings. I'll try 8+queen; thanks. ...wait, 4 drones is enough to keep it from coming up in the first place? I thought you needed way more (since he can just build more and cancel them individually as you whittle them down)? | ||
|
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 10 2012 07:53 RibsNGibs wrote: Thanks. Yeah, I actually usually kill it before it finishes - it's just every once in a while I lose track of his probe or for whatever reason he manages to build the cannon outside of the expo hatch's vision range (behind the minerals for example) and it goes up without me noticing. I usually freak out and way overbuild lings. I'll try 8+queen; thanks. ...wait, 4 drones is enough to keep it from coming up in the first place? I thought you needed way more (since he can just build more and cancel them individually as you whittle them down)? If he builds more then one at a time you do need to pull more. But if he's just building one, then 4 drones will deal with it very easily. You shouldn't pull a lot of drones if he's only making one, wait until you see he's making more before doing that, otherwise you are giving him an economic advantage if you over pull vs just 1 cannon. | ||
|
Rednaxela_19
United States150 Posts
| ||
| ||
