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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On March 06 2012 17:32 the`postman wrote: Spines+Queens+Roaches, as long as you scout this with your ovie it should be the easiest of all the timing attacks to hold. Ok but how do you scout it in time to get enough roaches and queens in time... | ||
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the`postman
United States1643 Posts
On March 06 2012 18:14 Host- wrote: Ok but how do you scout it in time to get enough roaches and queens in time... If it's a 2 player map your first overlord should go behind his natural and your second should be in position outside the main so that you can send it in at ~6:30 to scout his buildings, you should probably be throwing up a roach warren at ~7 in every ZvP matchup so that part is easy. I always build a third queen for creep spread so once you scout the stargate it shouldn't be hard to queue up one more. | ||
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On March 06 2012 22:32 BushidoSnipr wrote: This has probably been asked before, but I'm asking anyway due to recent surges. The Hellion Tank/Thor style of mech is becoming increasingly popular due to the ghost nerf. Terran players have about 30% of the army as hellions, 60% as thors, and 10% as siege tanks. My friend uses this exact style to beat high masters/GM zergs with ease. He feels that there is no real effective counter to the style. Now I know the only time mech is vulnerable is in the beginning, so could my fellow zergs recommend timings to attack a meching terran? Macro games don't work and I need help! No real timing except 200/200 broodlord/infestors. You can't really attack a mech army straight on, what you gotta do is to take advantage of the slowness of tank/thor and expand aggressively while delaying his 3rd. Open roaches and get a fast 3rd, see if you can delay his 3rd. If not, take base 4 and 5 immediately and tech to broods. Overrun him with a 10 gas economy vs 6. Alternatively, open muta and you'll be able to delay his 3rd until he gets 3+ thor or marines. Main drops with ~16 lings are also effective vs mech, as his army will be very slow to react. | ||
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
On March 06 2012 23:20 VoirDire wrote: No real timing except 200/200 broodlord/infestors. You can't really attack a mech army straight on, what you gotta do is to take advantage of the slowness of tank/thor and expand aggressively while delaying his 3rd. Open roaches and get a fast 3rd, see if you can delay his 3rd. If not, take base 4 and 5 immediately and tech to broods. Overrun him with a 10 gas economy vs 6. Alternatively, open muta and you'll be able to delay his 3rd until he gets 3+ thor or marines. Main drops with ~16 lings are also effective vs mech, as his army will be very slow to react. Ok, thanks! In my games against this, I opened for third and got roach, but was extremely hesitant to go brood lords due to his high viking count. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On March 06 2012 23:22 BushidoSnipr wrote: Ok, thanks! In my games against this, I opened for third and got roach, but was extremely hesitant to go brood lords due to his high viking count. If he overmakes vikings dont go BL, just go roach festor and laugh the the fucker. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On March 06 2012 23:27 Host- wrote: If he overmakes vikings dont go BL, just go roach festor and laugh the the fucker. Then when he lands the vikings or you manage to kill them, get brood lords again. Fast late game tech switches after big army trades are one of zergs biggest advantages. Fungal and some corruptors mixed in with the broodlords neutralize vikings pretty well. Use corruption on his thors. | ||
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
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roym899
Germany426 Posts
i have a question about scouting against Terran. I'm a Platinum Player. ZvT ist already my worst matchup in all regards and so it's really annoying when you try to improve your macro play against Terran and lose against a stupid build just because you didn't scouted it. So how should I behave when the Terran just Wall-Ins, and I scouted One Gas going up. So what should I do know. Their are SO many builds Terran can go for. Most of the times it's reactor Hellions into expansion so I prepare for this one, but how should I know if he goes for Bio Build, Mech Build, or the most annoying one Mass Banshee + Vikings. I lose EVERY game when someone goes for 4-5 Banshees + Vikings to snipe Overlords. Mostly because I just don't scout it. But how should I scout it? Of course I can sacrifice an Overlord, but many Terrans especially the ones going for a build like this park their Marines at the edges of their base so the Overlord won't get any intel at all. And just guessing is pretty stupid isn't it? Because I would have to invest soo much into anti-air that i'm most likely out of the game when he goes for a normal Marine Siegetank push. So maybe i'm just too bad in this game which is most likely the case but I do everything to improve, but I just can't think of a way to prepare for all possibilities without being unprepared for all of them. (if you know what i mean^^) And I also can't think of a way to scout if the Terran is a little bit smart... (he could also hide the Starports and so on, which makes it even harder to scout everything) So I'd like to know HOW to prepare or HOW and WHEN to scout the Terran? | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
Most of you should know that mutas stack when being grouped with an overlord in a different way then when you just spam the ground when not having an overlord in your control group. Mutas basicly stack the whole time when being grouped with an OL. So i have around a bit and it seems like you can make the mutas attack in a similiar way as in BW, you shoot, fly back, shoot fly back, and this way it atleast looks like all my mutas attack when doing this. I don't know about what other players have tried but wouldn't this be really useful in alot of situations, you could snipe stuff much easier, just slowly make an army crumble while not taking much/any damage(like you would when you would a-move) Maybe even muta vs muta battles? If this isn't tested yet then that's weird xD. | ||
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UEOvJ.png) Thanks! | ||
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KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
On March 07 2012 05:42 lhr0909 wrote: I want to ask why lategame ZvP pros do this changeling spawn and keep them with your own army. I don't want to open up a new thread asking this, so I am posting here. Thanks! His opponent had a mothership and high templar, he needed the overseers, and if he had energy they could all get feedback'd making it so he couldn't see the protoss units, so he uses all the energy on the overseers so they can't be feedback'd | ||
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Thienan567
United States670 Posts
On March 07 2012 04:23 roym899 wrote: Hey, i have a question about scouting against Terran. I'm a Platinum Player. ZvT ist already my worst matchup in all regards and so it's really annoying when you try to improve your macro play against Terran and lose against a stupid build just because you didn't scouted it. So how should I behave when the Terran just Wall-Ins, and I scouted One Gas going up. So what should I do know. Their are SO many builds Terran can go for. Most of the times it's reactor Hellions into expansion so I prepare for this one, but how should I know if he goes for Bio Build, Mech Build, or the most annoying one Mass Banshee + Vikings. I lose EVERY game when someone goes for 4-5 Banshees + Vikings to snipe Overlords. Mostly because I just don't scout it. But how should I scout it? Of course I can sacrifice an Overlord, but many Terrans especially the ones going for a build like this park their Marines at the edges of their base so the Overlord won't get any intel at all. And just guessing is pretty stupid isn't it? Because I would have to invest soo much into anti-air that i'm most likely out of the game when he goes for a normal Marine Siegetank push. So maybe i'm just too bad in this game which is most likely the case but I do everything to improve, but I just can't think of a way to prepare for all possibilities without being unprepared for all of them. (if you know what i mean^^) And I also can't think of a way to scout if the Terran is a little bit smart... (he could also hide the Starports and so on, which makes it even harder to scout everything) So I'd like to know HOW to prepare or HOW and WHEN to scout the Terran? If he's only getting one gas then it's probably reactor hellion. Terran needs 2 gas to go mass banshee. If he's not pressuring your front with hellions then he's up to something. If need be, sac an ovie at around ~7-8 minutes, get lair, morph an overseer and scout his base at around ~9-10 mins. Vs. early bio pressure, get a spine or 2 and mass lings. After that baneling nest and roll him. Vs mech, he'll be slow, deny his 3rd as much as possible, go mass upgraded roaches. UPGRADES ARE A MUST. From there you want mobility, something like drops, tunneling claws, maybe even nydus if you're feeling awesome. Don't forget to expand all over (literally all over) because he can't actually threaten your bases. Vs viking/mass banshee, spores and queens. Honestly the most important thing is to actually scout it, which is done, again, by scouting at around the 7 and 9 min mark. | ||
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Xizorz
93 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
I want to ask why lategame ZvP pros do this changeling spawn and keep them with your own army. I don't want to open up a new thread asking this, so I am posting here. changelings are fucking awesome, I really, really, really hope blizz doesn't remove the overseer. Nowadays zergs are going mass overseers due to mass ghosts and motherships. And their merit is not in putting in the opponents base and scouting, or tagging with the opponents army. Their merit is to put all over the map, kind of like free sensor towers, or maybe like overlords that are free to lose, or like lings out front of the opponent's base. When someone has a mothership vs your bl/infestor army, it's super important to know exactly where that mothership is, so you don't get vortexed (range 9) suddenly, and so you can jump at a chance to NP it. It's also helpful in games where you go mass muta, so you know where the opponent's army is. What you do, is not place them by their army, but like spread them around the opponents base. So if he moves toward a certain direction, you know right away where he's at (either because he kills it and you know that, or he doesn't kill it and it grants vision). They are just so awesome. It's like having lings, for free, no supply, that you can just put everywhere to spot when the enemy moves out their base, but when the game is so late that everything is so large that you just put everywhere. By endgame when I have BL/infestor, I always poop out a bunch of changelings from my 5+ overseers, and have vision of exactly where the opponent is, to position best. If you could pick 1 opening build to work on the timings for each matchup, what would it be? I don't know what you mean. Like are you having trouble with their timings? I don't get it. If you are asking the question that has a been asked a million goddamn times of "what bulid should I do?", search this thread. But as said a million times, hatch first in ZvT, 14/14 at low level for zvz or hatch first, and 14 gasless hatch asap gas asap if gateway expand zvp. | ||
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Affluenza
United Kingdom214 Posts
My friend plays Zerg and during the GSL Final with DongRaeGu I mentioned that the hydra play was pretty good against FFE'ing protoss and he just quiped...Roaches>>>Hydra... I'm convinced that they are viable...the times that I have used them they have served me well to hold off Protoss timings (mixed in with lings+spines) but it's been a mild success...I've tried drops with hydra but it just seems like an expensive investment drop tech+hydra's themselves. It's funny how if Hydra's had the speed upgrade we'd see more Hydra play...but you know...this issue with hydra's only makes me spread the creep more actively and actually makes me more determined to find ways of using them. | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
On March 07 2012 20:42 Affluenza wrote: Does anyone have a good ZvP hydra build... My friend plays Zerg and during the GSL Final with DongRaeGu I mentioned that the hydra play was pretty good against FFE'ing protoss and he just quiped...Roaches>>>Hydra... I'm convinced that they are viable...the times that I have used them they have served me well to hold off Protoss timings (mixed in with lings+spines) but it's been a mild success...I've tried drops with hydra but it just seems like an expensive investment drop tech+hydra's themselves. It's funny how if Hydra's had the speed upgrade we'd see more Hydra play...but you know...this issue with hydra's only makes me spread the creep more actively and actually makes me more determined to find ways of using them. You may want to take a look this 2 base hydra timing attack what Idra used against Huk in Asus ROG invitational. Here is vod: | ||
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Affluenza
United Kingdom214 Posts
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Grayboosh
United States68 Posts
On March 06 2012 22:32 BushidoSnipr wrote: This has probably been asked before, but I'm asking anyway due to recent surges. The Hellion Tank/Thor style of mech is becoming increasingly popular due to the ghost nerf. Terran players have about 30% of the army as hellions, 60% as thors, and 10% as siege tanks. My friend uses this exact style to beat high masters/GM zergs with ease. He feels that there is no real effective counter to the style. Now I know the only time mech is vulnerable is in the beginning, so could my fellow zergs recommend timings to attack a meching terran? Macro games don't work and I need help! I disagree about the no real counter. As has already been mentioned, broodlords > mech, if you make it that far. In addition to that, I've heard drops are very good because of how stationary mech is. I've never done this myself, but it stands to reason. In the "almost late game", I go for roach / infestor with NP (you'll need at least 6 infestors so you can NP half his Thors). You can keep the hellions from harrassing by catching them with FG, so your economy should be pretty good since he can't really harrass. He will likely push out before you get broodlords, so I would recommend engaging in a choke (that's right, Zerg can actually take advantage of choke points). Use the choke to NP the closest Thors, that way the Thors behind them will be out of range of your infestors. Keep the Hellions FG'd. Throw beach balls once the Hellions are cleaned up. Keep remaking your roaches. Win. | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
Xizorz - to me 14/14 seems good, ideal for P against cheeses, pretty safe for T and a in the risk/reward if done right while at least an above average result | ||
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