|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Voir-- whoa... did you just say creep tumors can spawn other creep tumors?? Excuse me? Is this true? Ellaborate plz!
Can someone tell me some good things to do with burrow? FOr instance, with roaches, what do I want to focus on doing once I get burrow? If they have observer out, do I NOT want to burrow anymore? IF they DONT have observer, do I use burrow for sneak attacks? do I just burrow, heal, re-attack? What about with other units besides roach? Looking forward to some burrowing tips. Some things I can think of:
1.) Burrow units as spies, or underneat potential expanding areas
2) Burrow Baneling Land MInes
3.) Burrow Roaches/Hydras/Lings for ambushes
4.) Burrow Roaches to heal them or escape from a losing battle if they don't have detection.
5.) Burrow infestors and move them close to bases, bunker zones for destruction fun.
|
Apparently I'm a "dumb fuck noob" for not harassing. As per my post above, I don't know how to harass as Zerg - I'm not even sure it's possible. I'm so fucking close to quitting this game. I cannot for the life of me beat Protoss. It's physically making me angry. I have lost HUGE rank in ladder because I just. can't. beat. Protoss.
You can't really harass a turtling protoss. Warp-ins, forcefields, et cetera... it sounds like some dumb protoss said 'lol harass more' to you, but it's pretty much impossible to harass a protoss who's turtling on 2 or 3 bases unless you go muta style.
How do I harass with muta when they FE to 2-port phoenix? If I roach-ling all-in and they hold, I lose. If I roach-ling all-in and a VR pops in time, I lose. So if my "harass" is useless, it just sets me back in econ while they mass up behind their walls. If I macro they (in this scenario) go either:
Maybe you should stop all-inning. That's probably why you lack the fundamentals to play a real macro game.
Double starport is an all-in, so you need to treat it just as cautiously as you'd deal with a 4 gate. I'm assuming you took a fast third, please, if you dont take a fast third against FFE then you really need to go back to the drawing board - but you defend with mass spores and queens. You should be saccing at a minimum, 3 overlords against FFE around the 7:00 mark, and if you see no buildings, like no mass gateways, and you see 4 gas, that obvuiosly means double stargate all-in. Put 2 spores at your main and your third, and then add-on as he reveals his air fleet. Defend, get corruptors, then mass ling/bane and win. Or whatever, once you hold the all-in you can do whatever you want.
Just don't make hydras to defend, and you aren't making corruptors to defend, you are making them to push him back. You need to defend with spores. Once it gets going, you really need about 3-5 spores per base to deal with double stargate. But even if he kills your third, you will be ahead of protoss still, so, just keep in mind as long as you keep all 3 of your bases, you'll be fine.
Of course if you dont take a third against protoss FFE, then you are already losing and he doesn't have to do anything.
I'm not sure what league you are in either, but... focus on macro play. You are basically going fast third against protoss, no lair until 100+ supply, then defend their 2 base aggression until you can push back to deny their third.
You can't let them get a third, and 2 base deathball is crap.
1. Phoenix/VR to Colo take another base, deathball, I'm fucked.
2. Phoenix/VR to mass zealot/archon/temp and do a timing with that.
VR/Colossi, you just need mass corruptor with infestor support.
archon/zealot, you need mass roaches with infestors and eventually broodlords.
If you see him deathballing like that, just take 2 more bases, and get a super good lair tech army (his push will come before hive, so dont rush hive).
You shouldn't be allowing protoss to grab a third anyways though. If you allow protoss to grab a third uncontested, while you aren't even on 4 bases yet, then most likely you have already lost the game and just don't realize it yet.
How should my gas count look like after a toss goes FFE and when should the warren and upgrades come in?
You take a fast third, and just get a single gas around 5:30-6:00 for ling speed. Then get the second gas when you throw the roach warren down at 7:00. You can get it later if you want too, actually.
You don't get any upgrades when going fast third, as gateway timings will come before any upgrade finishes. It's more important for your 2 gas to get lots of roaches and ling speed, and eventually a lair, rather than any upgrades.
If you watch, say, nestea, or losira play, they actually will only get an upgrade after they know they held off the 2 base FFE aggression. Sometimes, they get it even before lair.
1.) Baneling Usage - What ratio of baneling/speedling is ideal for MM? What about if tanks/mech is involved, do I want more or less banelings/zerglings to counter mech? Lastly, what is the best way to send in banelings? Do I want them closely following the zerglings? mixed together? A move and pray?
You really don't need many banelings at all against Terran. baneling splash I think is as large as about a storm? It's very large, like double siege tank splash. Against MM you want even more lings. Zerglings actually rape bio pretty hard, it's siege tanks that makes things troubling, and so do medivacs.
YOu only really need, maybe 5-10 banes, 20 against the largest of armies, and only 30+ when it's super super lategame and terran is just getting crazy 3 base and it's better to go lots of mutas than hive tech yet.
Just watch the "Destiny baneling rape analogy' video on youtube, that'll explain a lot to you.
Never a-move. You want to move command behind the opponent, then hit 'attack' real quickly when your lings sort of have that 'perfect' surround. Your banelings should be on a separate hotkey (its okay to have ling+bane on 1, then just bane on 2) so you can 'recorrect' their path so they dont blow up on marauders or siege tanks.
Dont put them on follow... lings are fast. Dont make them slow.
A really good 'spreading' tip: Before you engage Terran, have your ling+bane 'patrol' a long area perpendicular to the enemy approach - when you want to engage, hit Patrol behind the opponent. Your units will spread really well, instead of clumping up.
...why would you go mutas? Personally, I don't like mutas in zvp. They blow chunks.
Just mass roaches and stay on top of your upgrades. Get burrow and tunneling claws. Split roaches and do multipronged harass. Kill a forge here then run away, kill a pylon there, then run away. Keep him moving. If you see colossi, get corrupters. 4 corrupters/colossi is the suggested ratio.
Honestly, I've no idea how the pros do the roach/ling into roach/ling/muta. It blows my mind, but w/e. Roach/corrupter mid game works for me...
I don't know what league you are at, but this is really bad advice. Tunneling claws is a horrible upgrade.... roach/corruptor... ugh. What are you even saying?
Pros use roach/ling to deny the protoss third and defend against aggression while going super fast third vs protoss. Then, once you held the aggression, and denied protoss' third, you go mutas to finish off the 2 base protoss, or go for a base trade when they get a super late third.
The muta harass was suggested by another poster. I can't really make it work either with all the 2-port openings. I find it really hard to harass with anything given the maps have one main entry point. How do you make them move around when there's only one entry point? By the time drop is up there's so much Protoss shit on the field it's gross.
You aren't going to be able to harass a turtling protoss, and mutas don't work well against double stargate because double stargate is an all-in (and they'll have a shitton of phoenixes too). Mutas don't work against all-ins. Decaf's thread addresses this (please search for his muta guide).
|
On December 23 2011 07:01 MooSlapper wrote:
Voir-- whoa... did you just say creep tumors can spawn other creep tumors?? Excuse me? Is this true? Ellaborate plz!
Can someone tell me some good things to do with burrow? FOr instance, with roaches, what do I want to focus on doing once I get burrow? If they have observer out, do I NOT want to burrow anymore? IF they DONT have observer, do I use burrow for sneak attacks? do I just burrow, heal, re-attack? What about with other units besides roach? Looking forward to some burrowing tips. Some things I can think of:
1.) Burrow units as spies, or underneat potential expanding areas
2) Burrow Baneling Land MInes
3.) Burrow Roaches/Hydras/Lings for ambushes
4.) Burrow Roaches to heal them or escape from a losing battle if they don't have detection.
5.) Burrow infestors and move them close to bases, bunker zones for destruction fun.
I'm not sure if you are sarcastic or not, but in case you aren't: Yes, a creep tumor can spawn another creep tumor.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Spawn_Creep_Tumor
The single most useful situation for burrow imho is vs a sentry heavy 2 base gateway push from protoss. Just burrow and wait out the forcefields. Also, burrow your drones to prevent them from being targeted when you're dropped/attacked at an undefended base.
|
Dude totally not sarcastic Voir--- I am new to Zerg and that is amazing to me.
IT reminds me of when I first started playing Terran and thought Stim ended when the green light ended,s o kept stimming every 5 seconds destroying my troops. Then I learned it lasts 15 seconds and ends with the red button...
Anyway... that's really cool about the Creep tumros lol no wonder everyone spawns them so well.
|
Hey this is more like a disccusion than question but I dont feel like its thread worthy.
So is there any reason why most pro players get +1melee or +1 ranged in zvp instead of +1armor?
The problem here is 6-8gate pressure(possibly allins) with +1 from protoss. +1Zealots basically beat three times more lings than they should and +1 armor negates that.
So wouldnt it be better to get armor first? or is there anything with offensive upgrades im missing?..
|
Costs less gas, and you won't be able to keep up with protoss weapons upgrades anyways. 6 gate all-ins with +1 come before any upgrade will finish anyways (it takes 160 seconds + 35 evo = over 3 minutes, 7:00 evo chamber when going fast third = 10 minutes, 6 gate comes at 8:30).
Weapons generally better. Upgrades aren't the biggest deal in general against protoss though, just make sure you aren't 1/0 against 3/3.
|
hey guys,
new Zerg player here.. Some questinos:
#1
Can someone help me figure out proper times/usage for infestors? I Often see people mass infestors but it doesn't seem very feasible to me? What units do you combo them with? What is the proper time/place for infested terrans? Here are ways to use the infestor that I can think of; please verify if this is correct and help me with others if possible.
1.) Anti-Air - Fungal growth stops Mutas/Phoenix/Vooid rays in their tracks
2.) Fungal marines, zerglings
3.) Burrow and roam into enemy base to destro with infested terrans
4.) Any given battle, throw IT's down to wreak havoc & get extra APM. Any particular units this is good against? Siege tanks?
5.) In combo with banelings perhaps?
#2
What's the best combo against Terran Mech? Hellion/Siege/Thors?
|
On December 23 2011 21:55 MooSlapper wrote:
hey guys,
new Zerg player here.. Some questinos:
#1
Can someone help me figure out proper times/usage for infestors? I Often see people mass infestors but it doesn't seem very feasible to me? What units do you combo them with? What is the proper time/place for infested terrans? Here are ways to use the infestor that I can think of; please verify if this is correct and help me with others if possible.
1.) Anti-Air - Fungal growth stops Mutas/Phoenix/Vooid rays in their tracks
2.) Fungal marines, zerglings
3.) Burrow and roam into enemy base to destro with infested terrans
4.) Any given battle, throw IT's down to wreak havoc & get extra APM. Any particular units this is good against? Siege tanks?
5.) In combo with banelings perhaps?
#2
What's the best combo against Terran Mech? Hellion/Siege/Thors?
This is from personal experience, but Roaches usually compliment Infestors pretty well. Though I use them to make Infested Terrans to harass the expansions if I can. Banelings can work with Infestors too since Fungals stop enemies from where they stand anyway though it kind of feels like overkill when I think about it
|
Where can i see some games of Nestea for free?
|
|
|
I have questions about a macro hatch. I never build them and I don't know why people are like "omg macro hatch make one!11!1!1!!!"
-When is it appropriate to build a macro hatch instead of a new base?
-What are general marco hatch timings? Between 2nd and 3rd, or after 3rd?
I always feel like if I'm building a hatchery, then I might as well build it at an expansion spot. Even if I don't saturate that mineral field, I can do so later. The only disadvantage is that it's more vulnerable, but if I'm zerg with good map control it wouldn't be?
I feel like if I build a macro hatch in base, it means a handful of things:
- Can't defend my 3rd/4th, forced to play defensively
- Going for all-in
Tell me I'm wrong and why please.
|
On December 23 2011 21:55 MooSlapper wrote:
hey guys,
new Zerg player here.. Some questinos:
#1
Can someone help me figure out proper times/usage for infestors? I Often see people mass infestors but it doesn't seem very feasible to me? What units do you combo them with? What is the proper time/place for infested terrans? Here are ways to use the infestor that I can think of; please verify if this is correct and help me with others if possible.
1.) Anti-Air - Fungal growth stops Mutas/Phoenix/Vooid rays in their tracks
2.) Fungal marines, zerglings
3.) Burrow and roam into enemy base to destro with infested terrans
4.) Any given battle, throw IT's down to wreak havoc & get extra APM. Any particular units this is good against? Siege tanks?
5.) In combo with banelings perhaps?
#2
What's the best combo against Terran Mech? Hellion/Siege/Thors?
#1:
3-5 infestors are always good to have against any unit comp. Most battles are over before you can use more than 3-4 fungal growths. If you get mass infestors you have to be active with them and make them worth while.
You should almost always get a couple of infestors while teching to hive. The only exception is if you need all your gas for muta. They work well as support to low tech units like roach and lings.
Fungal is particularly good against roaches, marines, chargelots, banelings, a densely packed deathball (void/colossus/stalker/sentry) and to trap air units. They also reveal cloaked/burrowed units. Infested terrans are particularly good to absorb initial tank hits in a charge, as emergency anti air, as worker harass and to spam when you'll need the extra edge in a battle. Neural parasite is particularly good against archons, immortals and thors.
The best end-game composition is generally infestor/broodlord. Use fungal growth to keep anti air units from getting to your brood lords. High templar (feedback) and ghost (snipe, emp) counters infestors pretty hard, so you need to be careful when the opponent has them.
#2 Ultimately infestor/broodlord, but infestor/roach works well as a transition composition. Mass muta+ling can be good if he goes pure mech without marines.
|
On December 21 2011 19:39 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 03:59 nicke10 wrote:Who would be a really solid Zerg to really copy all his timings? I want his timings to be very clear, recurrent and easy to copy while being really strong and solid play. I prefer some aggression and not the passive style so I love counter attacks and offensive strategies like drops etc to take control of the game. I'm low-mid masters but my play is really funky and I just win by macro but usually doesnt have an idea what im doing so i need a player to steal from  Players like Stephano is pretty hard to copy because his timings are pretty different every game because he just do what he does. Is idra the guy im looking for? Yes, idra is the guy you're looking for. But he's usually not very aggressive, at least not early on.
What about NesTea, DRG or Leenock?
|
When taking a fast third against a forge expo in ZvP, what is the best to do:
Transfer drones from the main and natural when the third is done, or start rallying new drones to that base when you've saturated your first two?
|
On December 24 2011 05:02 Kamelixs wrote:
When taking a fast third against a forge expo in ZvP, what is the best to do:
Transfer drones from the main and natural when the third is done, or start rallying new drones to that base when you've saturated your first two?
In general it's better to saturate your main and nat before the third BUT that's only in certain situations. Say that your 3rd is a gold, then you want to transfer as many drones over to that base as you can without oversaturating it (like on Metalopolis). But say that it's a normal map like Antiga where the third is just blue minerals. You just lose mining time if you're transferring drones over there because you're going to have the same income. You probably want to just saturate your main and natural before saturating the third in these kinds of situations.
|
In addition to my previous question (answer that too pl0x), why do no pros do a 7rr against a protoss FFE? It seems so strong; you can always at least kill a forge/pylon and maybe even a gateway, if you don't snipe the cannon and outright kill him.
|
Can someone help me figure out proper times/usage for infestors? I Often see people mass infestors but it doesn't seem very feasible to me? What units do you combo them with? What is the proper time/place for infested terrans? Here are ways to use the infestor that I can think of; please verify if this is correct and help me with others if possible.
When you get infestors depends on the match-up.
In ZvP and ZvZ, you do not want to get them before 3 bases, as it's 6 less roaches. Not to mention infestation pit and pathogen glands, making 5 infestors is 30 roaches less. That's huge. If you watch pros play, they wait very late to make infestors, and only make very few, right before maxing out. At the lower levels, you usually see things like 2 base infestor or a higher infestor ratio. You want more roaches first, then infestors, they just hurt your econ too much and they take about 4 minutes to come out, so it means 4 minutes where you are not just vulnerable, but lack any map control at a critical time you are trying to deny the opponent's third.
However, there is way to play in ZvP going 2 base lair infestor rush, where you spam infested terrans against a protoss. There's plenty of guides and replays about how to do that out there. This is viable, Losira did this against Genius (he lost, but he was very close and it was a great game and he did play well), and I believe Destiny does, or did, do this.
In ZvT, you generally want to be making more more more more mutas instead of infestors. It's amazing how good 30+ mutas get against even 3 base terran as opposed to adding infestors or upgrades. I'd recommend that you don't get infestors in ZvT before 4, maybe 5 bases, unless maybe it's a map like XNC where the opponent is turtling hardcore with a base in the middle of the map that you want to siege? I don't know, even then I think mutas are better. But really, you should be getting 30+ mutas before you consider getting infestors. If you can't win the game with the 30+ mutas, then, switch into infestor/BL - even then, it's not about the infestors, just infestor/BL.
However, there is a way to play ZvT by going 2 base infestor, going mutas instead of infestors. You can check out plenty of pro replays or guides on that, it's definitely a viable way to play. Destiny I believe plays like this, and Nestea and DRG have even done it in recent pro games. Basically you use highly upgraded lings with double evo chambers, and make infestors instead of mutas, and go for a faster hive on about 3 bases instead of basically never getting hive until like 5+ bases and after 30+ mutas.
In ZvP, you can use 2-4 as support units, like for baneling rain or mass roach. In ZvZ, you use them as support for mass roach. In ZvT and every match-up, you use them as Broodlord support - in ZvZ, pure Mass BL/Corruptor is stronger, but you can go pure BL/Infestor before then, and in ZvP you can go pure ~10 BL/20 Infestors, and in ZvT, BL/Infestor is very strong on it's own, with maybe a small ling support, or eventually moving into pure BL/Infestor.
They generally go with roaches (or in ZvP, baneling rain). It's not viable really anymore to go ling/infestor because of the NP nerf making it so the army is now vulnerable to splash units that before you could NP, but in ZvT it's okay I suppose to go mass ling/infestor if you rush hive.
1.) Anti-Air - Fungal growth stops Mutas/Phoenix/Vooid rays in their tracks
2.) Fungal marines, zerglings
3.) Burrow and roam into enemy base to destro with infested terrans
4.) Any given battle, throw IT's down to wreak havoc & get extra APM. Any particular units this is good against? Siege tanks?
5.) In combo with banelings perhaps? [/quote]
1. Infestors are good to get as anti-air if you don't want to get hydras. This works better if you got your third already, if you didn't, you will take it too late and will lose the game. Personally, I never make hydras in ZvP, and rely on infestors as my AA in the game, and go fast third, so as long as you get the third first, yea, you can use them as AA.
2. If you play ling/infestor in ZvT, sure, FG is good. It replaces banelings.
3. Yes, infested terran spam is great harass. In lategame, it's great to get drops so you can drop Infestors in bases.
4. Yes, spamming IT's is great if you have extra energy for it. It's useful to do in any battle, but make sure you have your priorities with FG if necessary. If there are air units, it's useful to spam a few, just a bit back to avoid being hit by colossi or marines but close enough to guard whatever vulnerable units need protecting from viking/voidrays/phoenix/mutas.
5. Banelings are the least gas cost efficient units in the game, they cost more gas per supply than battlecruisers and carriers and colossi and HT. You generally won't have any gas to do both banes or infestors, and generally it's better to go one or the other, not both. Banes usually go with mutas for DPS, not infestors, anyways. Banelingrain is great with infestor support, but even then, it's just 1-4 infestors at most.
What's the best combo against Terran Mech? Hellion/Siege/Thors?
Expanding. Really.
If you see indications of mech when your lair/overseer finishes, grab another base.
There are 2 ways to deal with mech.
1. If he's going hellion/tank on 2 base first, then going mutas is completely viable to gain map control, deny the third, and get broodlord tech. 4 magic boxed mutas beat a thor, and 24 mutas own 6 thors, but once the thor count gets to about 8+, mutas stop working well.
2. If he's going thors instead of tanks as his first mech tech-lab units, as is more popular by pros/korea and in general these days with mech, go mass roaches. Just mass roaches, don't get any upgrades except maybe single evo +1 ranged. You want to focus the gas on massing roaches. Eventually, you can add on infestors - FG and NP aren't useful against mech at all, but infested terrans are really strong against mech and you can't just use pure roach forever.
Eventually, you'll want to transition into BL/Infestor. If he's doing a 2 base mech all-in, you can't go hive, but if he's going 3+ base, you need broodlords. You can't rush it though, and you need to hold the first push with lair tech.
Roach drops are also viable instead of going infestor or hive. Just remember, what's more important, +1 or drops or infestors, or getting a hive (hive is 150 gas, although getting 8 broodlords takes over 4 minutes and 2k gas so keep that in mind too).
I have questions about a macro hatch. I never build them and I don't know why people are like "omg macro hatch make one!11!1!1!!!"
-When is it appropriate to build a macro hatch instead of a new base?
-What are general marco hatch timings? Between 2nd and 3rd, or after 3rd?
I always feel like if I'm building a hatchery, then I might as well build it at an expansion spot. Even if I don't saturate that mineral field, I can do so later. The only disadvantage is that it's more vulnerable, but if I'm zerg with good map control it wouldn't be?
I feel like if I build a macro hatch in base, it means a handful of things:
- Can't defend my 3rd/4th, forced to play defensively
- Going for all-in
Tell me I'm wrong and why please.
Watch your replays. I guarantee you are banking more than 400 minerals at some point in the game (save for right before greater spire or spire pops, of course) - or even, before the 15 minute mark. This may not seem like a big deal to you, but in masters+, this is game ending.
Macro hatches are extremely important, and I think in lower levels people don't have as great a grasp of macro to understand this. 2 saturated bases can easily support 3 hatches with queens injecting, and not having 3 hatches will hurt your macro.
You simply need a macro hatch to spend your money, else your macro will suffer and simply your army will be 1/2 the size it should be.
But to be more specific...
In ZvT, you need a third hatchery at 55-65 supply. To be more specific, if you are going lings instead of roaches, you need it between 55-65 supply. Now, if you can make it a third, that's great, but if you can't, it needs to be a macro hatch.
If you take a third at 60 supply against rine/tank pushes (either 2 base or 3rd into rine/tank), you will lose it. You just can't hold it. If you have no macro hatch, a rine/tank push can just do a ton of damage and contain you with bunkers and everything, and deny you from getting a third for a few minutes while terran just techs up and takes his own third before you, which is essentially GG you lose the game because you are too far behind.
The 2 base rine/tank push used to be very popular at the pro level. But, Zerg's started to learn to make a macro hatch around 55-65 supply (watch DRG vs Thorzain, for example, DRG, considered at that time and maybe even still, the best ZvT in the world, he does it). Making a 55 supply macro hatch essentially 'hard counters' any sort of rine/tank push.
That's why you need it. Because you can't safely take that third except on the largest of maps or safest of thirds, and if you don't have a macro hatch, you can't produce enough units to break out of a contain quick enough, and you will also just generally bank money.
The BO, in general, for ZvT is something like this:
Hatch First
20-30 supply, single gas, @100 gas, get ling speed
3 more gas around 40-60 supply
Lair
Generally at 50% lair, but anywhere between 40-60 really, baneling nest and evo chamber
+1 carapace, baneling speed (you can skip these for more mutas if you feel safe)
Spire
55-65 Macro hatch or Third if safe
@50% hatch, get queen if you don't have a third one (you should've made a third one already for creep spread though, i prefer to actually make a 4th queen to that queen can stay on creep).
Third when you can (I'll even make a 5th queen for that, so I have 1 queen still for creep).
If you don't have that third hatch, whether macro or placed at the third, you simply will get owned by 2 base rine/tank push, bank too much money, take your third way too late, not have enough larva. You won't notice this if you don't larva inject and drone up well and are lower level and getting supply blocked, but at the higher levels, your macro is half decent enough that this becomes an issue. Also, even if you are lower level, you probably are banking money, so you should make a macro hatch anyways. A 2 base rine/tank push will contain you too long if you don't have a macro hatch, and then Terran gets a third before you which basically means GG. If you try to make that hatch a third, Terran can just kill it because you won't have enough forces to defend it, and it becomes too exposed.
Terran can't just kill you on 2 base with macro hatch because of chokes and creep spread, but they can kill a third because no creep over there and you can't use the same choke and creep to defend it.
If you watch any pro in ZvT, they always make a macro hatch. Generally, you don't need a macro hatch as importantly if you are going roach heavy, but even in ZvZ and ZvP, or if you are going roach heavy I should say, you will need a macro hatch once you are on 3 bases with ~60 drones, or 2 base with full saturation ( in zvz and zvp you should be going lair before third in macro games, so I dont think you should be sitting on 2 base full saturation anyways). Of course, you can always make that macro hatch a fourth, but taking a fourth boosts your econ even more, so you will need a macro hatch still. You can just 'double expand' after securing your third instead of making +1 base and a macro hatch...
In general it's better to saturate your main and nat before the third BUT that's only in certain situations. Say that your 3rd is a gold, then you want to transfer as many drones over to that base as you can without oversaturating it (like on Metalopolis). But say that it's a normal map like Antiga where the third is just blue minerals. You just lose mining time if you're transferring drones over there because you're going to have the same income. You probably want to just saturate your main and natural before saturating the third in these kinds of situations.
Keep in mind that the gold also has less minerals, and oversaturating a gold is just as bad as oversaturating a normal mineral line. You shouldn't transfer 'as many drones as possible' over to the new base, especially if it's a third when you already have 2 other mining bases. I personally take the gold as my natural, then the natural as my third on that map...
You just want to transfer enough drones to make it so you always have even drone saturation. When taking the gold, due to drone production at that hatch, and wanting to mine the gold, eventually you'll want to transfer drones out of it (or just take the gas there before the other bases, that way dont have to re-transfer). You should always transfer immediately and evenly at your bases.
If you watch pros play, you will see that they actually religiously watch their mineral lines, and repeatedly check for drone saturation. That is because, for example, when going fast third vs FFE, you will actually be behind or just even on workers. The only way to get a macro lead, is if you saturat properly, as 12+12+12(36) on 3 base is much better income than 22+22(44) on 2 bases. If you don't spread it evenly, then you aren't doing anything to get a lead and might as well be on 2 base.
You should transfer immediately to new bases. Rallying is not a good idea. The only reason you would rally is if maybe you were worried about aggression that you can't hold and don't want drones in the line of fire. But never rally. Even when taking a third, it's actually best to take 8 drones from your main, then 8 from the natural, and then send them to the third, and still have each base rally to their respective mineral patches. This works much better than just setting all rally points to the new third, even if you have 50+ drones, and just saturating it with 25 larva instantly.
|
Would it be safe to say that it is never unwise to take a macro hatch given that I can't safely take a third at 50-60 food?
|
What is your advice on ling upgrades against toss. If your opponent is going for blink stalkers, would it be beneficial to get attack or armor upgrade. i recently went armor, and it seemed like my lings didn't die as quickly, but normally i would go for attack upgrade. i am masters zerg in NA and diamond in KR. i guess this is somewhat theorycrafting? but which would be better to get attack or armor? thanks.
|
Would it be safe to say that it is never unwise to take a macro hatch given that I can't safely take a third at 50-60 food?
Yea, I suppose it would be. A more preferable way to put it is "I'd rather get a macro hatch at 60 food so that I can safely drone up and tech up instead of getting a third that forces me to delay tech and make units to defend when going ling heavy" or "I should get a macro hatch once I've defended any aggression when going fast third with roach defense".
What is your advice on ling upgrades against toss. If your opponent is going for blink stalkers, would it be beneficial to get attack or armor upgrade. i recently went armor, and it seemed like my lings didn't die as quickly, but normally i would go for attack upgrade. i am masters zerg in NA and diamond in KR. i guess this is somewhat theorycrafting? but which would be better to get attack or armor? thanks.
Against stalkers, it's better to go with attack upgrades. It's something like 10 less hits for a ling to kill a stalker with +1, and attack upgrades on roaches scale extremely well (+2 per) whereas armor is just +1.
You'll never be ahead of protoss in upgrades anyways, so you want to go with attack upgrades over armor generally, and it takes too long for zerg to get upgrades vs protoss anyways (you'll never have upgrade finished in time against warp gate aggression, a 6 gate all in or 5 gate pressure comes before upgrades finish, 8:30, as opposed to 7:00 evo + 35 build + 160 research time = 10:15 at earliest). Just make sure you aren't 0/0 or 1/0 against 3/3, you can lose if you get too far behind on upgrades obviously. It's preferable to go for more tech or units as zerg vs protoss instead of upgrades. 6 roaches > +1 armor.
When going muta style, you don't want upgrades except for muta upgrades and the critical +1 carapace against +0 siege tanks allowing them to survive one more hit. in ZvZ, +2 roaches beat 1/1 roaches pretty handidly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
