EPTThe Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 131
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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MooSlapper
United States113 Posts
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Cantankerous
114 Posts
On December 20 2011 21:10 MooSlapper wrote: Anyone have a link to a guide/thread that goes over the basics of ZERG strategy (or details)? Please link me if you do; I am a Platinum Toss player playing with Zerg now for the first time. This is a pretty good guide that describes the basics of how to play zerg. It's getting pretty old now though so I'd take the specifics with a grain of salt. More recent, matchup-specific guides: ZvP ZvZ ZvT Belial's guide on dealing with 6-pools when going hatch first in ZvZ (Definitely take a look at the ling vs drone numbers even if you don't hatch first) If I'm not mistaken Day9 did a bunch of zergy stuff last week as well. | ||
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blinkblue
United States119 Posts
-How do I deal with 1-base colossus all-in? I scouted the robo bay, tried going corruptor+roach but I didn't get enough units out in time. -How do I micro ling/bane/muta vs terran? Should I be move-commanding my banes until getting close to marines, and then attack-moving? I've seen a bunch of pros have 3, 4, and 5 as hatches, and I don't understand how you can micro this with only 2 command groups. -If the terran is, let's say, pushing my natural when I have 3 bases up and he has killed my current army, how do I go about building another army safely without lings constantly running in and suiciding? Just set 3 different spawn rallies and then a-move to get a surround when I have a big enough army? Thanks  | ||
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nicke10
Sweden114 Posts
I'm low-mid masters but my play is really funky and I just win by macro but usually doesnt have an idea what im doing so i need a player to steal from Players like Stephano is pretty hard to copy because his timings are pretty different every game because he just do what he does. Is idra the guy im looking for? | ||
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Lokerek
United States441 Posts
I am high diamond zerg who struggles with mid-late game injects and mild overlord supply block. I've read the "How to Improve Effectively" guide by CecilSunkure and watched Titan's video on how to practice as a zerg. They have helped me a lot with focusing down on details but no matter what I do I fall in injects mid and late game. When I do practice macro on maps like metalopolis or multitasking trainer I am able to stay on top of my injects, overlords, and even creep spread but whenever I go into a real game, lots of stuff happens and end up piling up energy on queens later on. I have played games on customs, 2v2, or even trolling 2v2 vs starter editions where I performed weird builds while focusing on inects/macro. While I see on my practice that I'm getting better, it simply just does not transfer to the actual game. I would like to hear some suggestion of how can I improve this aspect which really holds me back. Thank You for any help. | ||
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Hrwa
Croatia147 Posts
On December 20 2011 21:10 MooSlapper wrote: Anyone have a link to a guide/thread that goes over the basics of ZERG strategy (or details)? Please link me if you do; I am a Platinum Toss player playing with Zerg now for the first time. Apollo made a pretty nice two part video recently: | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
Is it even possible for zerg to harass without the harass becoming an all-in? I'm starting to think not. The econ loss due to larva spent on units instead of drones makes it pretty tough to find a balance. I'm getting slaughtered mid-game without harass now. I'm playing like shit. What are good builds for harassing vs. Protoss and Terran? | ||
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Chinesewonder
Canada354 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On December 21 2011 12:25 Chinesewonder wrote: Hey there, mid master ZvZ here. I've recently got really good at ZvZ which used to be my best match up. I used to go hatch first whenever I can and tech to roach to defend early game. However increasingly I like speedlings a lot more. Anyone else find this? I feel with roaches you give up so much map control and your sometimes in the dark on what your opponent is doing. With speedlings if your opponent goes roach, you are free to macro and drone hard while you take complete map control and respond if he pushes with roaches since they are so slow. Anyone else feel this? I want to try hatch first with speedlings, however it is quite risky. If you are up against hatch first yourself, going Speedling isn't risky. Going speedling after seeing your opponent has opened gas or pool first is because his speed will finish much sooner and you will have to rely on slow lings ( yuck. ). Better start making a Baneling nest before you even start speed against those kind of builds. In general I really don't like Roach openings. It delays a lot of tech by so much and you can't really be offensive, have mapcontrol and be droning hard at the same time. You have to pick either a lot of Roaches or a lot of drones to be on the good track as in ahead in units or economy. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On December 21 2011 03:59 nicke10 wrote: Who would be a really solid Zerg to really copy all his timings? I want his timings to be very clear, recurrent and easy to copy while being really strong and solid play. I prefer some aggression and not the passive style so I love counter attacks and offensive strategies like drops etc to take control of the game. I'm low-mid masters but my play is really funky and I just win by macro but usually doesnt have an idea what im doing so i need a player to steal from Players like Stephano is pretty hard to copy because his timings are pretty different every game because he just do what he does. Is idra the guy im looking for?Yes, idra is the guy you're looking for. But he's usually not very aggressive, at least not early on. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On December 21 2011 06:36 Lokerek wrote: Hello TL, I am high diamond zerg who struggles with mid-late game injects and mild overlord supply block. I've read the "How to Improve Effectively" guide by CecilSunkure and watched Titan's video on how to practice as a zerg. They have helped me a lot with focusing down on details but no matter what I do I fall in injects mid and late game. When I do practice macro on maps like metalopolis or multitasking trainer I am able to stay on top of my injects, overlords, and even creep spread but whenever I go into a real game, lots of stuff happens and end up piling up energy on queens later on. I have played games on customs, 2v2, or even trolling 2v2 vs starter editions where I performed weird builds while focusing on inects/macro. While I see on my practice that I'm getting better, it simply just does not transfer to the actual game. I would like to hear some suggestion of how can I improve this aspect which really holds me back. Thank You for any help. The only way you're going to improve your "real" mechanics is in a "real" game. Focus on your injects in your ladder games and try to see them as practice. Then when there's 1 month left of the season you can switch to play competitive if you care about ladder placement. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On December 21 2011 12:12 Mjolnir wrote: Is it even possible for zerg to harass without the harass becoming an all-in? I'm starting to think not. The econ loss due to larva spent on units instead of drones makes it pretty tough to find a balance. I'm getting slaughtered mid-game without harass now. I'm playing like shit. What are good builds for harassing vs. Protoss and Terran? Hmm... Zerg usually already have map control and great mobility, and the other races usually play defensive against zerg between timing attacks. There are some harass opportunities for Z though, but not as many as P and T has. Mutas in all three match ups. They are just perfect for harass. Lategame drops on P/T when they are on 3+ bases. Either just drop 8-16 lings in the main to make them split their units or make a full out drop and be ready to evacuate with your overlords once their ball gets there. Infestors. Especially against terran. If you manage to get 2-3 infestors into an opponents main and spread them out, they will have a hard time ever killing them while you can use them to spawn infested terrans on their mining bases. Baneling drop harass on workers. Morrow used to do this quite a lot zvp. Ling run-bys can work to some extent. Roach harras on protoss FE on open natutal maps like metalopolis. 3-5 roaches can usually kill some buildings/deny mining time until they get a stalker up. | ||
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Sunnylol
Finland9 Posts
On December 21 2011 00:52 blinkblue wrote: -How do I deal with 1-base colossus all-in? I scouted the robo bay, tried going corruptor+roach but I didn't get enough units out in time. Thanks Bump! Quite curious about the best way of defending this as well. Alooot of slow roaches +slings didn't do the trick for me (owned by fat lazy roaches and a couple of well placed forcefields), but I only ended up in that situation because he denied all scouting which caused me to stay on hatch tech =(. Maybe I should stop being so stubborn about delaying my lair vs 1 base toss :X. Maybe having alot of additional queens as well would make it easy? | ||
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Fairchild
133 Posts
On December 21 2011 23:21 Sunnylol wrote: Bump! Quite curious about the best way of defending this as well. Alooot of slow roaches +slings didn't do the trick for me (owned by lack of mobility and a couple of well placed forcefields), but I only ended up in that situation because he denied all scouting which caused me to stay on hatch tech =(. Maybe I should stop being so stubborn about delaying my lair vs 1 base toss :X. Maybe having alot of additional queens as well would make it easy? If I successfully scout the colossi tech on 1 base I build a few sets of lings and assume to be safe for at least 3 or 4 more minutes. Considering colossus are very high tech giving the toss a nice mechanic advantage (long range splash) but cut into meatier gateway units I'm going to want to counter his range advantage with a speed advantage. Get the creep spreading so when the push comes you'll have a much easier time surrounding his small unit count army. Roach/Zergling is usually enough for me to hold if I have the creep. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
If P is on one base, preare for 4 gate. When it isn't 4 gate you just drone a little more, get evo, and mass roach ling off 1 gas. You should be ablle to recognize what the first 2 units out means for p. If it isn't at least 1 sentry or more than 1 zeallot or stallker, that is questionable. If no dt/sg by 7 from 1 base, you can rule them out. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On December 21 2011 12:25 Chinesewonder wrote: Hey there, mid master ZvZ here. I've recently got really good at ZvZ which used to be my best match up. I used to go hatch first whenever I can and tech to roach to defend early game. However increasingly I like speedlings a lot more. Anyone else find this? I feel with roaches you give up so much map control and your sometimes in the dark on what your opponent is doing. With speedlings if your opponent goes roach, you are free to macro and drone hard while you take complete map control and respond if he pushes with roaches since they are so slow. Anyone else feel this? I want to try hatch first with speedlings, however it is quite risky. What I like about going speedling in ZvZ is how you feel decently safe using it. Unless you're being pressured hard, you'll be in/just outside his base all the time, you can easily force him to build more units and can expand. Before, I felt it was weak because banelings countered it so hard, but lately I've found that it's not so bad as long as you back off and try to focus down the blings with smaller groups. I feel like bling vs massling favors the blinger slightly, at least defensively, while massling is pretty strong against everything else. | ||
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CreepyNA
United States106 Posts
On December 21 2011 23:21 Sunnylol wrote: Bump! Quite curious about the best way of defending this as well. Alooot of slow roaches +slings didn't do the trick for me (owned by fat lazy roaches and a couple of well placed forcefields), but I only ended up in that situation because he denied all scouting which caused me to stay on hatch tech =(. Maybe I should stop being so stubborn about delaying my lair vs 1 base toss :X. Maybe having alot of additional queens as well would make it easy? Yes, additional queens do help if you wish as a mineral dump, since lots of transfuse can really help, and since you have lack of scouting they help against 1 base void rays and 1 base warp prison plays. Also, you don't want to delay hive tech too long because 1. Overseer!!! 2. Tech can help to hold the push; Use reasoning on what you see and what you don't see, and how long he has been on 1 base. | ||
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Chillton
Canada85 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On December 22 2011 01:54 Chillton wrote: I am looking for a build which involves roaches and a fast lair, like first 100 gas fast I think, I forget who did it, but I think it was to be used against Protoss. fast roach speed and a timing push for fast expanding toss? Something like, making double overlords then making that much food worth of roaches?? Sorry if that didn't make sense lol It doesn't make sense to get a fast lair and speed for an attack against a FE protoss (or terran). Speed doesn't really matter if you're committed to attacking and even if it did protoss would have enough sentries or some tech up that shuts down roach front attacks by the time roach speed is ready. There are two distinct roach timings against a FE protoss. One is the hatch cancel roach rush and the other one is speedling expand into 5-10 roaches and reinforcing with speedlings. Both are strong on maps with open naturals like metalopolis. | ||
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Chillton
Canada85 Posts
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