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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
You take a third when they take their natural. Go lings to deny any pressure, its better than roaches. Really? I always thought you make roach/ling first, then take the third around 8-9:00. That's what I've heard said on the subject, I really am quite curious what the answer is too. I'd love to see replay or VOD examples. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
Also, when would be a good time to take a macro hatch as zerg when on 2 base? I seem to always place it at random times, and I think I should probably try to standardize this. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
If you see more than 3 marines, it means he isn't doing any sort of hellion all-in. Sac the overlord by the main or by the 'edge', if no expo there or by 7:00, it's clearly a 1 base all-in. If you didn't see double gas or gas first with a drone, and you check a ling up front and see nothing added onto the rax, then he's obviously going banshees. Just get 2 additional queens. Add a spore if nothing is still happening around 8:00, then add 2 spores at each base. You put the spores in a 'triangle' formation around the hatch, or on both sides, one in mineral line first. I talk about macro hatches on the page previous to this one. | ||
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MooSlapper
United States113 Posts
OK.... so, the laster you build your spawning pool, the more "economical" it is... right? Howver, the later u get the pool, the later you get the queen = the later you get larvae to build tons of drones. Therefore, isn't it in your advantage to get a queen SOONER rather than later for economical purposes? Isn't extra drone larvae better than the couple extra drones you get by not cutting drones to get a later pool? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
It's not as straight-forward as "making this later or earlier is better". For example, 15 Hatch is most popular, but I believe 14 hatch was 'proven' to be better economically in the Zerg Openers thread. There's also larva and what your plan is. If you don't plan to expand right away, 11 pool may be better, as you get income to match larva, and 14 pool simply means you bank money and can't spend it all, and you also get a queen quicker with 11 pool, meaning it's better for 1 base econ (or aggression). However, if you plan to expand, or follow-up with a roach warren, then 14 pool is better, because you need to pooled resources to get that hatch quicker. 11pool18 hatch is a pretty economic build, but it is still behind 14pool/16 hatch due to later hatch, but it isn't so far behind like 10 pool or 14/14 because yes, you get that queen quickly. | ||
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PeanutsNJam
United States175 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
If it's reactor hellion expand, just 1-3 spines and queens. If it's double factory, or blue flame opening, roaches or lots of spines. Then you deal with 2 base mech with mass speedroach. | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
If opponent goes FFE and i take a fast third, when is it a good time to be aggresive with roach ling /roach hydra? Can i just saturate 2 bases and the third decently and then be aggresive? Also in ZvZ, when do you get a baneling nest? I usually go 15 hatch or 14 pool 14 gas, when i see alot of lings i make it but its already too late he usually already has a baneling nest or it is almost done -_-. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On December 26 2011 22:25 Guamshin wrote: How do i play vs 1 basing protoss players? I usually go 16 pool 17gas and then i try to expand whenever i can. I don't feel like adding a roach warren but that is maybe what i need to do? If opponent goes FFE and i take a fast third, when is it a good time to be aggresive with roach ling /roach hydra? Can i just saturate 2 bases and the third decently and then be aggresive? Also in ZvZ, when do you get a baneling nest? I usually go 15 hatch or 14 pool 14 gas, when i see alot of lings i make it but its already too late he usually already has a baneling nest or it is almost done -_-. Q1. Your opener is rather funky, I'd suggest going 14 gas 14 pool 21 hatch - later if its pylon blocked. You wan't to scout the protoss around the 5:30 mark, if they have no expo by then prepare for all manner of all ins. You could go with roaches but they may not be out in time to stop an allin. Vs a 4 gate you need a lot of spines (4/5/6). That 5:30 ish mark is a "switchpoint" when you start making units if you haven't scouted an expo. Q2. You don't really want to be aggressive until you have 75 drones spread accross 3/4 expos. At this point you can trade with the Protoss, and especially try to deny his 3rd. You CAN be aggressive after full saturation of 2 bases, but again it's better if you saturate all 3 if you feel safe to do so. Q3. Not sure, but early on obviously, I guess when gas/minerals allow it. | ||
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NevenGaming
Norway29 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Hydras, Mutas, and Baneling rain is all pretty decent too. | ||
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arena_say_what
122 Posts
How are you suppost to deal with stalker sentry colossus ball? I tried roach ling, forcefields make for inefficient trades and everything dies. Tried getting corruptors out but don't have enough of them or they dont get out in time. I tried mutas, Protoss who turtles in his base spreads out his stalkers in his mineral line totally shuts down muta harass. I also tried baneling carpet bombs and it just doesnt seem to do enough damage and decent protoss will spread his units out. Hydras roach ling doesnt work for my either. I'm in diamond and I have no clue what I'm suppost to do | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
On December 27 2011 00:48 Host- wrote: Q1. Your opener is rather funky, I'd suggest going 14 gas 14 pool 21 hatch - later if its pylon blocked. You wan't to scout the protoss around the 5:30 mark, if they have no expo by then prepare for all manner of all ins. You could go with roaches but they may not be out in time to stop an allin. Vs a 4 gate you need a lot of spines (4/5/6). That 5:30 ish mark is a "switchpoint" when you start making units if you haven't scouted an expo. Q2. You don't really want to be aggressive until you have 75 drones spread accross 3/4 expos. At this point you can trade with the Protoss, and especially try to deny his 3rd. You CAN be aggressive after full saturation of 2 bases, but again it's better if you saturate all 3 if you feel safe to do so. Q3. Not sure, but early on obviously, I guess when gas/minerals allow it. Ah my opener, i just copied it from a progamer called NEXNaYa, but i'll change it ^^. Thank you for your helpful answers. I got 1 more actually, is there another way to micro zerglings vs banelings? I only know selecting all your zerglings click to the banelings, shift click 1 zergling then pull away, but thats quite difficult to do when they are so close. Any tips? | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
1. unit composition to deal with it depends on the stage of the game; - against a "small death ball", with maybe 1 2 or 3 colossi (so not really a death ball yet), a reasonable number of stalkers and sentries, you can deal with it with any unit composition more or less: mass roaches, mass hydras /roaches/lings; , lings roaches, lings infestors, roaches corruptors, muta ling can be tough but do the job etc. - when it's getting bigger (like starting to look like a real death ball, let's say from more than 3 colossi), you probably need either corruptors or infestors to deal with it correctly (or baneling bombs maybe, but I don't know that so well). like corruptors hydras/roaches; or corruptors roaches: or infestors roaches; or infestors, roaches lings; or infestors corruptors roaches lings (potentially can replace corruptors with mutas, a bit less efficient for the fight, but gives many more opportunities for harass). - when you are against a max real death ball, broodlords is kind of the standard thing to go for, with infestors, or possibly with corruptors. You can't hold a max protoss death ball with only tier 2 units. Spines are kind of necessary too, as they avoid freekills on the broodlords. As a consequence midgame is (imo) a series of progressive transitions from an initial composition to broodlords. For me, as a standard thing I would go: 1 roach lings to hold 6 gate pushes 2. add infestors /trying to deny third 3. when i see colossi in the mix, start a spire and add corruptors; 4 a bit before I am maxed, start throwing down spines, try to harass with roaches and lings, and replace them by more corruptors, while teching to hive and eventually morph them to broodlords. 2. Having said that, from mid game, one way to go is to go constantly for trading armies, so as to delay the death ball and give you time to go for broods. NB: trading armies doesn't mean you send 20 roaches every minut to death, but rather you poke, kill some sentries, stalkers, lose some roaches and go away, while reinforcing with more units, poke again do some multi prong harass, exchange a bit more, until you have exchanged most of the army  3. Also, success depends on your overall macro situation and respective sizes of armies. As a consequence, one way to deal with protoss deathball may be to improve your eco, for instance delay the moment where you mass units to the benefit of drones, or do not try to go for early pressure . This may give you a stronger eco, and exchange armies more easily in mid game. hope it helps (I didn't cover everything though...) | ||
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senjiroth
United States1 Post
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Fairchild
133 Posts
On December 27 2011 02:40 senjiroth wrote: I'm trying to get back to playing starcraft II as zerg and i was wondering what are the standard build sfor zvp zvz and zvt and what are the things i prioritize first to get back to this game? ZvP: Roach + Ling into Roch/Ling Muta Zerg has found that protoss doesn't have any good anti air units (such as marines) and are very susceptible to getting trapped on 2 maybe 3 bases once 12-18 mutas are out. However unlike vs terran you don't go strait to mutas off 2 base while only tryin to get by on defending, as protoss will outright kill you, but instead build a decent roach ling ball then transition into muta production once you establish you're safe. ZvZ: Roach/Infestor or Ling/bling/Muta While using spines and slings to defend, you can get 8-15 mutas out off 2 bases and expand like crazy while pinning your opponent on 2 bases and forcing him to invest in spores/infestors before he really wanted to. The main goal of lingblingmuta is to DENY HIS 3RD. Unlike vs terran and toss mutas can't really be masses and win the game as easily as 1 unlucky FG will end your entire flock, so a nice little group of 8-12 mutas should be enough to keep your opponent down while you take your 3rd and faster 4th. Players can transition back into roaches once the mutas have done their job and they are ahead, or they can invest gas in upgrades and banelings and finish the game lingblingmuta, targeting the hydras with the blings and everything else with lings. ZvT has probably changed the least recently has ling.bling.muta or mass muta/ling is still the dominate mid game unit comp. However there has been a slight increase in ultralisk use, as players have been playing a mass slings/muta into fast hive for faster addrennal and +3 for the late game + infestors. | ||
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nicke10
Sweden114 Posts
On December 21 2011 19:39 VoirDire wrote: Yes, idra is the guy you're looking for. But he's usually not very aggressive, at least not early on. Idra dont have so many recent replays and those he has he didnt play every good. I prefer aggresive zergs so I'd really like to analyze an aggresive zerg that has fresh replays and a clean nice goal. Nerchio maybe? | ||
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NevenGaming
Norway29 Posts
On December 27 2011 01:49 arena_say_what wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'm lost in ZvP. How are you suppost to deal with stalker sentry colossus ball? I tried roach ling, forcefields make for inefficient trades and everything dies. Tried getting corruptors out but don't have enough of them or they dont get out in time. I tried mutas, Protoss who turtles in his base spreads out his stalkers in his mineral line totally shuts down muta harass. I also tried baneling carpet bombs and it just doesnt seem to do enough damage and decent protoss will spread his units out. Hydras roach ling doesnt work for my either. I'm in diamond and I have no clue what I'm suppost to do Well I try to starve my opponent by not letting him expo. I usually go festor muta ling. Muta is for harrass and dealing with collosi. Festors are for fungals. Lings are basically for ground units. for example fungal some zealots and sorround(can't remember how to spell) with lings. | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
Vs T my standard build is 15h/15p/17g, ling speed, back on gas as speed completes, then bane nest/roach warren, lair next 100g, with a third around the same time. Vs P I'm going for 12p/19h, with a third around 32 vs FFE, or 2nd gas, evo chamber, roach warren and +1 to try and be ready for 6gate. and Vs Z, I have no idea, i've toyed with 1 base bane, 1 base roach and hatch and I get blindcountered so often it's not funny and i'm turning grey as a result! Thanks for any help. Equally, if you think my macro builds are poor i'd appreciate feedback. Ok, ZvZ is making me rage face so hard it's not funny, fucking hell. | ||
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