The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 127

On December 10 2011 18:34 blade55555 wrote:


Like you I hate ling bane wars as well so I started doing this awhile ago:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199583)

Thats my zvz guide for non ling/baneling play .

On December 09 2011 17:21 Macpo wrote:


1. Sorry, but just to make it clear (as I have the same kind of problem): in the case a zerg is spine crawler 6 pool rushing me, should I immediately pull all my drones off of my mineral line to chase them, while sending 2-4 drones on each spine? That sounds kind of counterintuititve to me, as against a six zergling rush with no spine, you should do the contrary, i.e. defend in the mineral line with drone stacking.

So precisely, that would mean, supposing that I have 15 drones :
- against 1 spine: 12 drones fighting six zerglings; 3 drones attacking the spine; no drone mining, zerglings in production, and possibly a queen.
- against 2 spines: maybe something like 10 drones fighting six zerglings, 5 drones attacking two spines (should they attack both spines at the same time, or one after another?), no drone mining, zerglings and queen in production.

2. Doesn't that kill the possibility of any later reinforcement for me, as I will have no income? shouldn't I still leave a couple of drones at my mineral line ?

3. And also, should I make a queen or a spine myself? in the case that I have a drone at my opponent's, is it worth it to make a spine there to get counterplay ?

4. when fighting with drones against zerglings, Do I need a good surround to engage, or is a frontal engagement, with some drone micro (with hold position to lower aggro, or just more classically removing the drone with right click?) enough?

5. If his spines still finish, is it the end, or do I still have a chance to win? how?

6. is there any difference if he sends all his drones in the rush?

thanks

On December 11 2011 09:25 HyperionDreamer wrote:
I've got a question abouts spending midgame minerals as Zerg... I'm mid-master league on the NA server.

I think it's common for most players who like to go for a muta-centric combination of units in the midgame to be spending all your gas, but to be floating a huge amount of minerals. Personally, I find myself often going above 1k in the midgame, and in matchups like ZvP I rarely have issues keeping my money below 400. I've tried making extra macro hatcheries to spend all of it, but I don't really want to max out on lings, since I'm spending all my gas on mutas and upgrades for them. Note that it's even harder when you're attempting to support dual spire upgrades.

I've tried a few different things with this extra money. The stock answer to this question is "make more macro hatches to spend the excess minerals," and although it's true that you will have more larva and thus be able to produce more units, I end up maxing out on lings so fast that I don't have room for more mutalisks or infestors or corruptor/brood. I've also tried taking a super fast fourth for the extra two geysers, and while this obviously works in the ideal case, you can't really defend a fourth that fast if you are playing against a good aggressive T player. In addition, if you're the slightest bit behind the T player, the fast fourth option is completely out, since they can force an engagement if you attempt to defend the base.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

On December 11 2011 10:14 VashTS wrote:
This is a rather silly and basic question, but in ZvP what is the normal timing for VR/Phoenix and DTs to come at me off of a standard FFE? I usually throw up an Evo around 6min after I see FFE, but I just want to know the usual timing to kind of drill it in my head just in case my OLs miss it or they take the scenic route around a Tower.

I know it differs depending on how many Gases they take and WHEN they actually take them, but I'm just looking for a roung estimate/answer. Thank you!

On December 10 2011 23:26 Macpo wrote:



Nobody wants to answer my questions ? I am sure many here are competent for these things ... Any 6 pool specialist?

On December 12 2011 00:31 Erasme wrote:
Okay, i find myself utterly lost in zvt. I can't stop marines/tanks push. Not the one at 9/10min, but the one that keep and keep going until they get marines 3/3. While looking for an answer in my replays, i find that the games i lost were usually on shakuras after a 14cc by the terran. So I wanted to know what can I do to punish 14cc ?

On December 11 2011 23:52 listal wrote:


that's definitely not a silly question

against FFE, VR/phoenix will start showing their faces at around the 7:30 minute mark. DTs show their faces around the 8:20 mark. if you weren't able to determine what the protoss player is up to by around 7:30, you should lay 1 spore at each of your bases.

edit:
are you the same Vash from broodwar? i was G()||y^RiCe- on east, if you are and that rings a bell

On December 12 2011 07:56 Adoness wrote:
Recently I've switched to Zerg (from Protoss, mid/top gold now) and now I've been pretty much dominating ZvZ with 14 gas 14 pool and then hatch at like 18. but the problem is terran going marine tank, I cant use banelings/muta/zerglings/roaches and after that my options are just gone and I usually just keep sending my army to its death trying to protect my main, and my usual reaction is terran imba and stuff like that but now I'd like to actually be able to beat this guys.
I've been looking around and the only advice I found is scout it and then when they're not sieged up hit, but usually when I do that he just sieges one tank and unsieges one in the back and slowly moves forward making my mutalisks pretty much useless since all the marines are there defending them.
My question is, what do I do against mass marine/tank slowly moving up to my base.

and I uploaded a replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?nylm7o5bwy9nu1e

NOTE: I do know my macro isn't the best and that I should improve on that but yeah thats not the main problem here (I think, I'm only a gold level zerg so if you think otherwise please tell me)

On December 07 2011 11:11 HeavOnEarth wrote:

its hardly ever cost effective when ur trading muta for marine unless theyre heavily overstimmed or u can pick off a couple without losing / getting mutas dmg'd
when you're trying to build up ur muta cloud , trading isn't a good idea

howeer it IS cost effective to clear out some marines + a turret, in certain positions so u can kill other shit
ie scvs, add ons /eng bays and so on

but u can only do this quick snipe + harass when u have a BIG muta cloud (provided terran doesn't have gaping holes in his defense)

so no , never "trade" only muta for marine.

On December 12 2011 00:05 listal wrote:


1 - defending with drone stacking in your first point is definitely correct. if you pool before gas and see the all-in coming, you should lay 2 spines pre-emptively behind your minerals as well. if it isn't an all-in with drones, all you need to do is a-move every drone and make it out alive.

2 - if you're being all-inned, your priority is to survive. if you do, you automatically win. if it's just 6 lings and a drone to spine, you still come out leagues ahead by using all drones to survive. your income rate should be double, if not more than your opponent's for the minute following the failed rush, so it takes only a minute to catch up. add in a quicker queen, and you're leagues ahead by three minutes after the failed rush.

3 - it's definitely worthwhile to lay 2 spines in the event that you didn't catch drones coming along with the zerglings. also, if he runs around his zerglings and for some reason you weren't able to catch his spine, the two spines will be your saving grace. definitely delay the queen though until after the rush is over in favor of the spines and (possibly necessary) zerglings.

4 - a surround in your mineral line is ideal, but not likely. hitting his zerglings with stacked drones is even better. however, even a front-on fight swings heavily in your favor, so it's not a big deal if you can't catch him in your mineral line.

5 - if you didn't lay 2 spines and his spine finishes, you're in hot water. you're definitely not dead though, since he has to get the spine into position to do anything other than poke at your buildings, since the spine is typically laid at the edge of the creep ahead of the 6 zerglings. you should have enough time to muster up some zerglings and a queen. with that force + your drones, you should be able to easily take care of the zerglings and spine. just make sure your zerglings aren't the focus of the spine, and send your queen in first to soak the hits from the spine.

6 - there definitely is. you need 2 spines behind your mineral line against this, ideally. someone who doesn't hit your drones head-on and diverts you from being able to attack the spine crawler can definitely cause problems, especially if you gassed before pool. i think i address this in points 1 and 2 though.

On December 13 2011 03:05 whitefenix wrote:
Hey everyone! I need some help with gas timings in ZvZ. Currently I do a 14/14 where I keep one drone in gas after getting 100 for speed, this allows me to expand and still get banelings at a pretty decent timing, I put the other two back after my hatch goes down (assuming opponent isnt roaching).

The problem is I dont know when to put the other 3 gases up or when to get lair. I usually drone until i have at least 10-15 drones mining, then get lair and 3 gases simultaneously, the problem is that I often end up behind in mutas. I really don't know the proper gas/lair timings, could anyone give me some rule of thumb to when lair/gases should be taken?