EPTThey are damn cost effiecient. They tank alot of damage too...
The Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 126
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drgrofl
Canada48 Posts
They are damn cost effiecient. They tank alot of damage too... | ||
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listal
United States228 Posts
On December 06 2011 14:34 drgrofl wrote: How do i beat blue flame hellions late game vs a mech army? They are damn cost effiecient. They tank alot of damage too... ideally, roach --> roach/infestor --> bl/corruptor/infestor. fungal the hellions, neural parasite everything else. some people stick with muta/ling/bling though if that was their original tech choice. in the event that you choose to do this, you use the blings to push away bfh so that you make your lings effective against the rest of his army. or, if they're on the creep, you can just get a decent surround on bfh w/ ling/bling and magic-box the mutas in for support. | ||
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dapierow
Serbia1316 Posts
at a cost effective rate ofcourse | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On December 07 2011 09:36 dapierow wrote: When harassing with mutas and opponent stims marines, what should be the ratio of mutas to marines if you want to kill them at a cost effective rate ofcourse its hardly ever cost effective when ur trading muta for marine unless theyre heavily overstimmed or u can pick off a couple without losing / getting mutas dmg'd when you're trying to build up ur muta cloud , trading isn't a good idea howeer it IS cost effective to clear out some marines + a turret, in certain positions so u can kill other shit ie scvs, add ons /eng bays and so on but u can only do this quick snipe + harass when u have a BIG muta cloud (provided terran doesn't have gaping holes in his defense) so no , never "trade" only muta for marine. now if terran is jockeying for position and he sends a pack of marines to clear creep u can easily pick those off without even caring because position is everything . trading a few muta so u can have another cycle before terran gets to ur base with tanks = more than worth it ( ie 2-3 mutas for 50 lings/ cycle of bane morphs) | ||
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Monsyphon
Canada190 Posts
Also if you go for a quick roach warren in a build like hatch>pool>gas>ling speed should you pull off the drones after the 100 gas for speedlings, or keep them on? | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On December 07 2011 12:30 Monsyphon wrote: im a zerg newbie and i have a bunch of problems about when to "do" things. Basic things like taking gas, morphing to lair, unit structures (especially roach warren) etcetc. Is this a thing where you just get a feel for, does it all depend on the kind of zerg you play (eco, aggro), or is it reactive? Also if you go for a quick roach warren in a build like hatch>pool>gas>ling speed should you pull off the drones after the 100 gas for speedlings, or keep them on? Ideally, you want to KNOW (as opposed to feel) when to take gas, morph lair and build your unit structures. I'd suggest that you start with copying some solid builds to use as a foundation for your timings. | ||
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Barky
United States3 Posts
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Macpo
453 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:04 VoirDire wrote: - when do you stop droning ? If he hasn't made an attempt to expand by 6:00, you should stop droning right there. When he places his expansion you can at least drone until his extra gateways are done. Sac an ol. - when do you take your gases? Depends on a lot of factors, but I generally take a 2nd gas just after my 3rd is started and 2 more when my lair is done. I add my last two if I'm going for a muta swich or some other lair tech. - when do you take your third? If you see nexus and a forge building at his nat you can take a third. If you only see the nex and no forge or sim city gateways, be wary of nex cancel. Thanks for the reply  I shall never loose a z v p again | ||
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Hepina
4 Posts
On December 07 2011 16:13 Barky wrote: ok, I need help. I did what day9 told me and focused on macro and nothing else. I max out on 200/200 and have enough economy to keep re-maxing. I go roach, hydra, ling, and attack his base. The protoss has 143 supply and steamrolls me. He gets to my base and I don't have enough time to remax and he stomps me. I cannot figure this game out. Any help would be appreciated. Silver league if it matters. Replay: http://drop.sc/69963 I'm just a platinum zerg, so take this with a grain of salt. First of all, you made wayyyy to few drones. At 8 minute mark, you had 34 versus his 31. You should be closer to 50 drones at that point, especially against a player that passive. If you had used the overlord at his base to do a bit of scouting, you'd have noticed that he didn't have any kind of army at all. Fast expanding protoss players can't obviously build a big army very early and most of them attack well after 8 minute mark, and that's why it's so important to drone like a madman as long as possible so you can start pumping out units without falling behind in economy in later parts of the game. You reach 70 drone mark at around 16:30, which is way too late considering he didn't show any kind of aggression. Secondly, you are at 200 supply with 72 drones, while he had 52 probes at 190 supply. This means that his army is, in fact, bigger in terms of supply, and also in minerals and (almost twice) in gas. On top of that, he has enough colossi to nullify your hydralisks (many of which were left scattered behind your army and died a horrible death). You had better upgrades, but only because you had 1-1 and he had none whatsoever. With that amount of colossi it's simply not possible to beat him with roaches and hydralisks. If you can't keep the colossi numbers down by trading your army against his all the time, you will need to either tech to broodlords and infestors or try to go for a base race. I don't know if you use the so called backspace method for injects, but you should definitely use a lot more hotkeys. It allows you to control your forces a lot better and if you don't use the backspace method it will help with injects. Your early injects are fine, but at some point the energy just keeps building up on your queens which in return of course means you won't have enough larvae. Your creep spread could've been better as well, but I don't think that played any part in your loss in that game. All in all, apart from low drone count during the times you should've droned the most, I think the reason you lost was staying on low tech units against his colossi ball. After seeing a robotics facility you should consider using mass mutalisks to keep him at his base, and you'd have a spire ready for broodlords in case you will need them. You did get rid of the colossi in the end, but at that point you had nothing to defeat the stalkers. You did take many expansions though, which was great. You don't need to mine at every one of them at the same time, obviously, but getting the gas from them would've allowed you to reach infestors and hive tech which would allow you to fight his deathball a lot more effectively than pure roach\hydra. Oh, and while you did attempt to scout him there and there, you should spread your overlords around the map to see when he expands, and at lair tech you can start spreading creep with them to delay his expansions. This of course didn't play a part in that game as he never took any bases apart from his natural, but it's a good habit to get into. Constant scouting would also had revealed that his main was completely empty and that he didn't have a proper army for a long time; a perfect spot for some harass in form of drops and\or nydus worms. I also suggest you take a look at decafs thread here. While it says it's meant for diamond+ players, it has a lot of good points, and I like the build order as well. It keeps you safe from cannon rushes\pylon blocks while being flexible enough to keep you from dying to some odd one base pushes. It should also help you with some timings as it tells you when to take your gases and so on. Good luck! EDIT: I also forgot to mention that with surplus minerals you should make macro hatcheries, especially if your injections start to slip after the early game. | ||
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Barky
United States3 Posts
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
Just wondering what the optimal method is for controlling your army and what hotkeys to use. I usually use 1 for lings and infestors, 3 for broodlords (and their queens) and 2 for corrupters. How should you micro vs stalker/collosus/VRs? How do you target down the VRs without being sniped down by blink stalkers? etc. And against this composition what should you remax with? Is it okay to remax with broodlord hydra infestor? | ||
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VaderZerg
United States17 Posts
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KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
On December 08 2011 10:12 VaderZerg wrote: How do you defend the 6 pool spine crawler rush? Send 2-4 drones to work on the spine crawler and micro your drones and later lings against his lings. You should have 15-16 drones and 11-14 drones beats 6 lings. once his eight get there you should have lings out yourself (depending of course on map/positions). | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On December 08 2011 10:12 VaderZerg wrote: How do you defend the 6 pool spine crawler rush? crawler doesnt hit ur entire mienral line most likely engage in favorable positions for a little drone vs 6 ling try to KILL these first 6 lings dont do stupid shit like mine minerals if unsucessful, run around and wait for your 6 lings+ queen with lings + queen u can fight his ling/drone but not his spine. at this point your queen will act as a buffer for your drones to mine money. eventually ur production will be enough u can engage spine. spine can only focus hatch usually. if he uproots, KILL and gg 6pool ez | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
On December 08 2011 10:16 KhAmun wrote: Send 2-4 drones to work on the spine crawler and micro your drones and later lings against his lings. You should have 15-16 drones and 11-14 drones beats 6 lings. once his eight get there you should have lings out yourself (depending of course on map/positions). 1. Sorry, but just to make it clear (as I have the same kind of problem): in the case a zerg is spine crawler 6 pool rushing me, should I immediately pull all my drones off of my mineral line to chase them, while sending 2-4 drones on each spine? That sounds kind of counterintuititve to me, as against a six zergling rush with no spine, you should do the contrary, i.e. defend in the mineral line with drone stacking. So precisely, that would mean, supposing that I have 15 drones : - against 1 spine: 12 drones fighting six zerglings; 3 drones attacking the spine; no drone mining, zerglings in production, and possibly a queen. - against 2 spines: maybe something like 10 drones fighting six zerglings, 5 drones attacking two spines (should they attack both spines at the same time, or one after another?), no drone mining, zerglings and queen in production. 2. Doesn't that kill the possibility of any later reinforcement for me, as I will have no income? shouldn't I still leave a couple of drones at my mineral line ? 3. And also, should I make a queen or a spine myself? in the case that I have a drone at my opponent's, is it worth it to make a spine there to get counterplay ? 4. when fighting with drones against zerglings, Do I need a good surround to engage, or is a frontal engagement, with some drone micro (with hold position to lower aggro, or just more classically removing the drone with right click?) enough? 5. If his spines still finish, is it the end, or do I still have a chance to win? how? 6. is there any difference if he sends all his drones in the rush? thanks | ||
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qwertyindeed
151 Posts
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adacan
United States117 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:36 Warrior Madness wrote: Need help with late game zvp army control. So I've been having better success with a roach muta style that focuses on denying the toss's third base. But about half of the time I'll face a turtly toss that makes it rally hard to do anything. So I try my best to delay his push with mutas while expanding, throwing up spines in the middle and getting BLs/infestors. Just wondering what the optimal method is for controlling your army and what hotkeys to use. I usually use 1 for lings and infestors, 3 for broodlords (and their queens) and 2 for corrupters. How should you micro vs stalker/collosus/VRs? How do you target down the VRs without being sniped down by blink stalkers? etc. And against this composition what should you remax with? Is it okay to remax with broodlord hydra infestor? would not put lings and infestors on same hotkey. | ||
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
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Stranglez
Australia29 Posts
In general I try and fungal everything and then make infested terran with whatever energy is left over, but I'm not sure if this is a good way to do things. Any advice or stuff to read would be great | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 10 2011 16:55 Mowr wrote: So, every ZvZ ling-bling war makes me want to kill myself. Any suggestions for non-blingy builds? I don't care if it's not optimal just as long it works. Like you I hate ling bane wars as well so I started doing this awhile ago: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199583) Thats my zvz guide for non ling/baneling play . | ||
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