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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
Maybe I should be a bit more... clear, I suppose.
14/14 ling/bane can really fuck up a hatch firster, and plays on their lack of map control and scouting (no ling speed, may not have an overlord nearby, you should always be seeing over their natural though). I even lose to 14/14 ling/bane still. I'm just saying I shouldn't, and you shouldn't, just like 4 gate shouldn't work, but still wins very often. Even if you arent aggressive, you can still come out ahead by playing on their fears and getting more drones while they have to blindly make units and prepare banes. Without speed, and by going bane before speed, I can't be aggressive either, so you have nothing to fear in me doing some baneling pressure.
But I really want to stress that when played 'correctly', hatch first should always beat 14/14. The thing is, 14/14 isn't too far behind it (well kind of) and you can usually make it up. The key difference is that it's not good play though, it's just playing through blind and through hope. Make sense? There's a difference between "I hatch first then get defensive banes to hold any pressure" and "i go 14/14 and make drones and then count on them overrreacting by making too many slowlings because i know they can't be aggressive".
It's not the worst coinflip you can do, but it's still a coinflip.
But if a hatch firster can get drones up against 14/14 who doesn't pressure, damn, you'll just die to roach/ling all-in. It puts you at least that far behind.
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What's the best option against 1g stargate FE in ZvP? I'm having a bit of trouble with this as I can't get my third as fast. Should I start lair ASAP and go to mutas or roach/corruptor?
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How can you get rid of double warp prism play while a push is happening in the front? This push is unbelievably hard to deal with and often times, i lose due to losing 1-2bases, losing up right in the push in the front? Even if i hold off the warp prism harassment, there is mass zealot archon sentry vs my roach army which always lose. The push for the warp prism comes at around the 10min mark. Any suggestions?
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On November 15 2011 08:41 HelloSon wrote:
What's the best option against 1g stargate FE in ZvP? I'm having a bit of trouble with this as I can't get my third as fast. Should I start lair ASAP and go to mutas or roach/corruptor?
lol in a ZvP when protoss goes FFE you should immediately go for a 3rd hatch. Protoss can't really do much other than zealot aggression which you can easily shut down since your lings should have the xelnaga towers or be near the enemy's base. Watch Stephano play ZvP, his style works really well. Once you defend off the 1g stargate with spores and have hydras out, you max real fast. Don't be afraid to drone 
@Grimhope
If you know he's has a warp prism, and is going to harass, I'd make a few spines to defend against attacks. If he's warping zealots to harass, that basically means his main army won't have much. Have a larger main army than his and you shouldn't have to worry. Don't be afraid to make spines. Since the Warp prism got a buff, I'm seeing a lot of protoss players harass more. Making spines in your min line along with a spore should be natural.
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^ He didn't say FFE, he said 1 gate FE. They are different, he's talking about 1 gate into stargate into expand, which can deny the third and is safe from roach all-ins.
If you can identify the build, taking the third super fast, like before 30 supply, is a good idea so you can get the spores up. On some maps, you can just walk your additional queens there, instead of making spores, as they shouldn't have a ton of phoenix from 1 stargate 1 base builds.
You shouldn't start lair asap at all. You should take the opportunity to drone up like a madman and use limited queens and 1 or 2 spores to defend. You lair up normally. Mutas and Corruptors aren't good at taking out protoss air, except for FFE double stargate where Nestea likes to go mass corruptor/speedbane (because no sentries). You shouldn't make mutas to 'counter' protoss air. You either go mass muta or not, and you overrun protoss air with it or not, but you don't make mutas with the intention to defend against air. You make mass mutas because of other reasons (ie you have 3 bases over protoss quickly and it's a way to use your econ lead to win a game).
How can you get rid of double warp prism play while a push is happening in the front? This push is unbelievably hard to deal with and often times, i lose due to losing 1-2bases, losing up right in the push in the front? Even if i hold off the warp prism harassment, there is mass zealot archon sentry vs my roach army which always lose. The push for the warp prism comes at around the 10min mark. Any suggestions?
Can you give a replay? From the sounds of it, it just sounds like he out-multitasked you. If someone is committing a lot to warp prism/sentry cute stuff, putting 2 spines your base should stop it if your army isn't able to (it's busy holding a push, or doing pressure, or its super lategame, etc). But you'd have to give a replay, I'm not exactly sure the circumstances of what you are talking about. At 10 minute it shouldnt be a large army, that pure roach can't handle and a little multitasking or simply putting down 2 spines at your main.
I try not to rely on multitasking to win games, as chances are if the opponent really dedicates to something like a drop or runby, they will get it. Putting down spines, orbanelings or roaches on patrol is always a good idea against such kinds of tactics.
Anyways I have a question in regards to ZvP Fast third vs FFE, and then transitioning in to mass mutas.
How do you base trade, exactly? When should you sit around to defend and overwhelm the opponents army with ling/small number of roaches/spines/mass muta, and when should you go for the base trade?
Should you just always base trade once you have 20-30 mutas against an opponent who's pushing?
When is it not good to go mutas in a ZvP (ie if they open blink, or templar, etc) when it's fast third vs ffe?
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I'm not a zerg player, but my cousin is, and lately, he's been opening with an 11 pool in pvz. Is there a downside to doing this other than sacrificing a little of his economy? BTW, he's in plat.
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On November 15 2011 10:47 awwnuts07 wrote:
I'm not a zerg player, but my cousin is, and lately, he's been opening with an 11 pool in pvz. Is there a downside to doing this other than sacrificing a little of his economy? BTW, he's in plat.
11pool18hatch is supposedly the alternative to opening 15 hatch. It's supposed to be safer because you get lings out fast for cannons, but meh.
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On November 15 2011 10:47 awwnuts07 wrote:
I'm not a zerg player, but my cousin is, and lately, he's been opening with an 11 pool in pvz. Is there a downside to doing this other than sacrificing a little of his economy? BTW, he's in plat.
Nope, not really.
11 overpool, 18 hatch is a build that's been around for a long time.
If you only make 1-2 sets of lings, you can actually come out a little better off than if you went hatch first, but if your opponent forces you to make units, your droning can be set back quite a bit.
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I am a protoss that has been abusing double SG, 4 VR's and then spam out pheniox. I was wondering how zerg actually counter this. The only thing I can think of is going blind hydras which is obviously silly if you are not up against double SG.
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On November 15 2011 12:51 Mitchlew wrote:
I am a protoss that has been abusing double SG, 4 VR's and then spam out pheniox. I was wondering how zerg actually counter this. The only thing I can think of is going blind hydras which is obviously silly if you are not up against double SG.
Hmmm a zerg should be able to scout this before you get any out with overlord sacrifice. If I see double stargate (or I see lots of air) I will go corruptors.
The reason being is hydra's are such a heavy investment if they are going heavy air and then they make colossi and then you lose. Also phoenix are very good vs hydra's when there aren't to many hydra's and as has been seen in the past (elfi vs idra being the latest) it just is really hard to deal with, with hydra's imo. I think its completely worth it to make 6 corruptors (more if they are making THAT many phoenixe's).
But thats just me, it works awesome for me
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On November 15 2011 10:47 awwnuts07 wrote:
I'm not a zerg player, but my cousin is, and lately, he's been opening with an 11 pool in pvz. Is there a downside to doing this other than sacrificing a little of his economy? BTW, he's in plat.
If you Forge Fast Expand, you cannot do much about it... But if you go 1 gate or 3 gate expand, I would recommend that you send a couple of units very early, as he won't have speedlings to defend. For instance, your initial zealot and a stalker; or even one zealot and two stalkers. This will force him to make lings, and therefore have a slightly worse economy, (while it does not cost you anything, except maybe some chronoboost).
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I have a question in regards to mech:
I always feel sort of 'lost' when playing against mech. Now, I almost always beat mech, and I think it's a really horrible way to play. I solidly beat it 9 out of 10 times. But I sort of feel like I have no direction in my play, or maybe just the 3 options I see possible are both just good. When it gets to end-game and I got my hive tech going, it's pretty clear what to do. It's just that critical 2-3 base of terran, his first push, that's questionable, and I'm unsure where to go at lairtech.
See, this is how I sort of approach it:
1. He is going hellion/tank heavy before thor heavy. I don't even make a roach warren, and just mass mutas. I believe idra plays this style, and eventually the mass mutas own him, and grants me time to get BL/Infestor.
2. He is going Thor heavy, no siege tanks, to which I just mass speedbanes.
3. He is trying to be supercute, either taking a super fast third, or trying to incorporate ravens or banshees really early, or maybe even I just feel confident and he's less heavy on the siege tanks, to which I go mass roach.
So when I play against mech, I always feel kind of torn between these three options, and I feel I suffer in some games because I try to do all 3 of these, which just turns out to be worse than doing any one of them at all. I think that you should always beat 'the first push' with lair tech, as if you attempt hive before he first pushes, you will straight up die (8 broodlords, for example, takes 4 minutes and 2k gas to get, and that's only by banking the money beforehand and making corruptors early too).
Now there are 2 problems I run in to. So lets take the example of roach/hydra/corruptor in ZvP right - If he goes heavier on colossi, I go heavier on corruptors. If he goes heavier on gateway or immortals, I go heavier on hydras, and so on and so forth - my point is that the game becomes a balancing act between only 3 units you choose to make and improve/upgrade upon.
The 2 problems I run into, is because the 3 options I listed, are all completely different. If I go mutas, and it turns out he's going heavy turtle style turret/thor before moving out with critical mass or a few hunter seeker missiles, I'm fucked and would have been better served going mass roach. If I go mass roach, and it turns out he's playing mass siege tank style, then I'm fucked and should've went mutas.
Now I know there is sort of a give and take here - I can mass mutas, and even if he's massing thors, I'll be okay. But the issue there is that eventually, his 3 base deathball will just roll me over if I did 'the wrong choice', and it's entirely possible that he may be going, say, thor/hellion at first and not adding in siege tanks until much later, as they all come from factories with tech labs.
The next problem I run into, is mainly identifying mech. So I get lair, right, and throw down spire and baneling speed when it pops. I go scout, or even just scout with the mutas or ling pokes instead, and I don't even recognize it's mech until I've already thrown the spire down. Now maybe I could just cancel the spire, but even with the oversee poke, I'm not 100% sure he's doing one variation of mech or the other. If I go mass muta because I see lots of tanks instead of thors, only to find out he's being super cute and getting banshees and ravens, well, I'm kind of screwed because if I had went with mass roach I would've just overrun him right then and there and won the game.
So, you know, I'm just trying to wonder what you guys think in terms of how to respond to mech. I don't think infestors are right at all, and I'm aware a lot of people may not be familiar with going mass mutas to beat thors. And I win most of my vMech games, so I'm doing something right. But I just 'feel' kind of insecure, make sense?
Then the whole mech with ravens or banshees is a real bitch. If I didn't decide on roaches instead of mutas vRavens, or mutas instead of roaches vBanshees, then I'm kind of fucked there too. It's just kind of hard to scout out.
I feel like the best way to play against mech is to keep the spire I threw down as soon as I made lair, mass mutas, and contain him and respond from there (either roaches or speedbanes as necessary) but I'm not too sure. Mass muta works really good against less than 8 thors, but if I even spent any money at all on roaches, then I'm shit out of luck when he pushes out.
It's just kind of hard to scout what I need to scout. There's tiny little variations in mech that can be killer, and it's not like a balancing act of more roaches/more hydras/more corruptors, it's more like roaches are completely fucking useless against the mech you are up against, hopefully you massed mutas instead.
Anyways I'm not frustrated because I'm losing to mech. I'm frustrated because I feel like I'm lacking direction in the mid-game against mech, even if I usually win such games anyways at the end with BL/Infestor.
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How to effectively deal with voidray/phoenix in ZvP early/mid game?
situation: map shakuras, he went into FFE, i went into double expand, scouted nothing (as toss you can always hide stargates, just most tosses never do that for some reason). So of course i expected voids, i got 1 queen at each base and 1 extra queen, got 1 spore on each base. He comes to my 3rd base with 3 voids and flies right into 1 spore and 1 queen. Kills both without losing anything (obivously). Then all i can do is either sacrifice 3rd or take all 3 queens into 3rd. I take all my queens but he already has 2 phoenixes near voids, he kills all my queens (obivously) and I pretty much lose the game.
So what i could have done? I could have made 2 spores nearby so he can't straight up killed them, but then again he can just fly to another base, or hit hatchery from another angle. Feels like spores are useless, and if you make 10 of them you are dead. Another solution is mass queen, but going into a lot of queens without knowing air is comming is also waste of drones, 1 queen = 3 drones. Or i can go into fast hydras, but i doubt they will be in time considering lair is always late when zerg double expands. I proabably would lost 3rd anyways..
So how to effectively deal with toss air?
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The most important place to scout against FFE is their gas at the natural. If there is no gas there, it means he's either doing a gateway all-in or taking a super fast third, both of which require you to mass ling/roach after 8:00 from fast third. If you see double gas, that likely means double stargate, possibly DTs, and if you see 3 gas it could really be anything, but usually means stargate. My point is that if you scout no gas at natural, then that means zero stargates (do note that there is a a common 'conservative' single stargate FFE play that many toss do where they don't take any gas at natural at first, make the stargate, and THEN get the 3rd gas, but they wont have a voidray/phoenix to kill that overlord before that gas is made).
So you don't have to scout where they may or may not have hidden their tech. You have to scout what's relevant - it's not relevant if he's going stargate or DT, I see 3 gas so it means I need a single spore at my vulnerable third and should get roaches and lair, as I'm free from a 6 gate timing attack that would kill me if I tried to get a lair on 3 base.
If he didn't do stargate though, making a spore and queen at each base is basically GG. So don't blindly do that. If you really are antsy and unsure though, I recommend you just make a single spore at your vulnerable third and a single spore in your main, as your natural will be 'sandwhiched' in the middle where he likely won't come at, or you can at least transfer the spore (kind of like why you dont run mutas past missile turrets in ZvT, they will take fire when they have to fly out too).
3 voids is quite the dedication, did you not have a ling at each watchtower and in front of his base to spot? Did he not reveal the void rays to one of your overlords parked around his base? You should have AT LEAST THREE overlords around a FFE player, if you dont that's.... bad, and your mistake. I have a hard time believing if yo hadn't placed 3 overlords and watchtowers in very simple, easy spots, that you woulnd't have seen the void rays move out.
You don't just make 1 spore 1 queen and say "well, I'm safe!". You make 1 spore, to buy time to make spores as necessary. When he was shooting down your queen and spore with 3 voids, you should've been making 3 panic spores. 3 voids takes a long time, so you should be able to afford it and should have at least 70 drones at this point anyways.
If you suspect air play though, and your third is not connected by creep, make 2 spores there. It's generally the target for air play, I generally make 2 spores at my third and an extra queen when suspecting stargate or seeing a gas at the natural, and then respond from there with the time bought from that. It's okay to 'waste' that since if he took a gas at the natural, he won't be doing any mass gate push that'll win because I 'lost' 3 drones to spores, as he 'lost' as much in taking the gas and mining it instead of pure minerals for gateways.
Don't worry about him hitting another base. What you are aiming to do is buy time, not defend everything-with-a-decision-you-made-at-the-6:00-minute-mark. You make 2 spores at the vulnerable third that isn't connected by creep, and eventually add an extra queen. Once he reveals his strategy, you prepare your other bases. He will 'waste' enough time attacking that third that by the time he moves on, spores will be up and ready in your other base that he chooses to target. Eventually, he'll be attacking another target and you'll have lair tech and hydras/infestors/spire up to deal with him! It's all about buying time for dream lair tech army, that is all. You aren't going to kill a competent player's air fleet with spores, but you will buy time to let you get something that will.
Don't worry about him hitting at another angle. Generally, 1 spore 1 queen will push him back, as you 'snipe' with the queen and then retreat to the safety of the spore. You do want about 1 spore/queen per void ray/2 phoenixes I suppose until you get your lair tech up. If he's pushing with 3 void rays, you should've made 3 queens at that base. 3 void rays takes a long time.
It's all about timing, and I think it'd be better if you watched how pros handle air play. They don't throw down 3 spores at each base, they throw down a single spore at the most 'vulnerable' base at the 7:00 mark, and at 8:00 they add one more, and by then the air fleet is revealed in all it's lethality (how many void rays, how heavy he's committing) to which you add to the vulnerable base, and maybe 1-2 spores in the main. You re-root spores as much as possible, after their buff, movign spores is extremely viable.
If he's going double stargate, though, that's an all-in, and you need no less than 3 spores at the most vulnerable base and eventually 2-3 in your main/natural, with accompanying queens, and then respond with mass corruptor.
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good advice thanks Belial! Really gonna look for gas timings from now on
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Quick question about delayed 2-port banshee:
http://replayfu.com/download/5dH3ck
This has happened to me a couple of times now. After seeing no super-fast gas and stealing one of them, and seeing a hellion with a ling on his ramp, and sacrificing two overlords, I was pretty damn surprised to see banshees with cloak arriving two at a time.
Obiously the fact I couldn't see anything in his base ruled out mass barracks (unless proxied, but that's a different problem), but I was erring on the side of BFH, possibly with medivacs.
First question :How should I have read what he was doing? Should I have just accepted that I couldn't tell if he was going mass hellion or banshees and made queens/spores?
Also I find two-port banshee hard to deal with at the best of times - I don't think I've ever successfully defended it, in fact. I've seen it coming, made spores and queens, but he just backs off and doesn't commit until he has a critical mass that one-shots my queens, at which point I'm dead. If I try to get a lair up to go muta or hydra, the lack of queen production just gets me killed that much sooner.
Second question: What the heck do I do versus 2-port banshee anyway?
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On November 15 2011 18:32 Belial88 wrote:
The most important place to scout against FFE is their gas at the natural. If there is no gas there, it means he's either doing a gateway all-in or taking a super fast third, both of which require you to mass ling/roach after 8:00 from fast third. If you see double gas, that likely means double stargate, possibly DTs, and if you see 3 gas it could really be anything, but usually means stargate. My point is that if you scout no gas at natural, then that means zero stargates (do note that there is a a common 'conservative' single stargate FFE play that many toss do where they don't take any gas at natural at first, make the stargate, and THEN get the 3rd gas, but they wont have a voidray/phoenix to kill that overlord before that gas is made).
So you don't have to scout where they may or may not have hidden their tech. You have to scout what's relevant - it's not relevant if he's going stargate or DT, I see 3 gas so it means I need a single spore at my vulnerable third and should get roaches and lair, as I'm free from a 6 gate timing attack that would kill me if I tried to get a lair on 3 base.
So i just played ZvP vs. FFE, pretty much same as i explained before, just tal darim. And he went into 2 stargates with only 3(!!) gas. Made 3 voids and followed phoenixes. Fortunatelly i defended but mainly because it's easier to take all queens to one spot on this map + he controlled poorly. So conclusion if you see no gas on natural only then 2 stargate is impossible, but considering that rarelly toss plays with 2 gases for that long, i can't really judge his build by just gases taken.
On November 15 2011 19:04 Umpteen wrote:Quick question about delayed 2-port banshee: http://replayfu.com/download/5dH3ckThis has happened to me a couple of times now. After seeing no super-fast gas and stealing one of them, and seeing a hellion with a ling on his ramp, and sacrificing two overlords, I was pretty damn surprised to see banshees with cloak arriving two at a time. Obiously the fact I couldn't see anything in his base ruled out mass barracks (unless proxied, but that's a different problem), but I was erring on the side of BFH, possibly with medivacs. First question : How should I have read what he was doing? Should I have just accepted that I couldn't tell if he was going mass hellion or banshees and made queens/spores? Also I find two-port banshee hard to deal with at the best of times - I don't think I've ever successfully defended it, in fact. I've seen it coming, made spores and queens, but he just backs off and doesn't commit until he has a critical mass that one-shots my queens, at which point I'm dead. If I try to get a lair up to go muta or hydra, the lack of queen production just gets me killed that much sooner. Second question: What the heck do I do versus 2-port banshee anyway?
I guess having 4 queens in total just in case never bad idea, especially when you see he has no expand and doing something tricky. Also get hydra den asap after the lair if you see banshees, because what he did was an allin anyways.
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Hello fellow zerg, and thank you for all the valuable input you provide...
I'm a platinum zerg, and I feel like I'm starting to get a good grip on ZvP, especially when the protoss is FFE (thanks to RoyalFlush's guide on delayed lair). However, I recently lost quite stupidly to a FFE -> 2 stargate (2 VR then chrono 4-5 phenixes) -> Very fast third into collossus.
I scouted the double SG a bit late thanks to an overseer (when he already had the VR and 2 phenixes, but didn't moved out yet).
My reactions :
1°) I threw down two spore at each base.
2°) I went Hydras/Roaches to defend (he didn't lose his VR and phenixes) and then tried to push when I realized he was taking his third but my push was so slow that when I got to his base in time I only traded a few roaches and hydras VS a few stalkers and a collossus
3°) He then proceeded to kill me with a standard VR/Collo/Stalker deathball and did it pretty convincgly since my 4th was so late and almost inexistant
My questions :
1°) My econ took a huge dent from the reactive spores. Was it too much of an investment?
2°) Hydras are awful. Like incredibly awful. I hate them. How should I react to a double stargate? Should I counter immediately with a lot of roaches (Mondragon style?)
3°)If Hydras are the answer to double stargate, how to prevent the toss from taking a very fast third? Do I need to take my 4th and power shitloads of roaches while keeping a few hydras to defend?
Thanks a lot, I'm a bit lost after this game, and I'm really willing to improve. Keep in mind that I'm bad and made a lot of mistakes in this game (I wouldn't have lost to a plat player if I didn't), but I'd like to have a stereotypical reaction in mind to a double stargate after FFE (I'm quite prone to brainfarts when it come to improvisation :p).
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On November 15 2011 22:40 Ahelvin wrote:
Hello fellow zerg, and thank you for all the valuable input you provide...
I'm a platinum zerg, and I feel like I'm starting to get a good grip on ZvP, especially when the protoss is FFE (thanks to RoyalFlush's guide on delayed lair). However, I recently lost quite stupidly to a FFE -> 2 stargate (2 VR then chrono 4-5 phenixes) -> Very fast third into collossus.
I scouted the double SG a bit late thanks to an overseer (when he already had the VR and 2 phenixes, but didn't moved out yet).
My reactions :
1°) I threw down two spore at each base.
2°) I went Hydras/Roaches to defend (he didn't lose his VR and phenixes) and then tried to push when I realized he was taking his third but my push was so slow that when I got to his base in time I only traded a few roaches and hydras VS a few stalkers and a collossus
3°) He then proceeded to kill me with a standard VR/Collo/Stalker deathball and did it pretty convincgly since my 4th was so late and almost inexistant
My questions :
1°) My econ took a huge dent from the precautionnary Spores. Was it too much of an investment?
2°) Hydras are awful. Like incredibly awful. I hate them. How should I react to a double stargate? Should I counter immediately with a lot of roaches (Mondragon style?)
3°)If Hydras are the answer to double stargate, how to prevent the toss from taking a very fast third? Do I need to take my 4th and power shitloads of roaches while keeping a few hydras to defend?
Thanks a lot, I'm a bit lost after this game, and I'm really willing to improve. Keep in mind that I'm bad and made a lot of mistakes in this game (I wouldn't have lost to a plat player if I didn't), but I'd like to have a stereotypical reaction in mind to a double stargate after FFE (I'm quite prone to brainfarts when it come to improvisation :p).
Hi. I'm a high masters zerg and this is how I deal with this. It may not be the best way but it seems to be the only thing that works.
Unfortunately, hydra's are your only option early on. This strategy is actually quite common especially on the Korean server. They often go ahead and keep making phoenixes which are good against hydras in low numbers. I like to put down one spore at every base and get gas sooner. I'm talking three extractors when your third is close to finishing. My first one hundred gas goes into ling speed, the second hundred gas into +1 range, and then lair. This strategy is so common that I rather change my opening because I'm not going to scout it. Good protoss' will basically never let you scout it before overseer and it's already too late if you have no precautions. When I don't scout any units/large amount of gateways (5+) by the time lair is done I put down the hydra den. If you don't get your hydra's out before his phoenix count gets out of control, you lost.
A little bit about spire: You can go for mutalisk but anyone with decent control will out micro you badly and you'll die to a small gateway force.
After I control the air with hydras, I want to figure out if he's going to keep making air units, go colossus, or do something like a zealot archon timing. I also want to see if he took his third. Overlord speed can help you with that. If he took his third you can try to pressure it with roaches but it always depends on the map layout. You can get your fourth and work your way towards spire unless he's going high templar.
Basically, it all boils down to not taking too much damage from the stargates. General tips:
- Don't send out any overlords after your first two. It's too risky. If you lose 6+ overlords because you spread them around, SG did enough damage, and chances are you'll even take more damage since you're so supply blocked you can't make hydras. SG play has that kind of domino effect.
- The sooner you get your hydras out, the sooner you can deflect stargate, the sooner you can transition out of hydras. You're right, Hydra's SUCK but it's your only option at this point. Mutas suck and corruptors are expensive and leave you really exposed to gateway timings. Hydra is truly the only way to deal with this.
-In this regard, stop delaying your lair. I know you want to get your econ up, but having a Lair quickly enables you to figure out what is going on and have the available tech to deal with it.
-Stay ahead on upgrades. Stargate play will inevitably delay his upgrades (not as much now, but still). So you want to get yours up. Sometimes when I take very little damage from double SG, I like to get overlord speed and drop and do a +2 timing: I drop all my hydras in his main (get a nice round number like 12 or 16) and then get a bunch of roaches with speed to attack his third or natural. He can hardly defend both if you didn't take damage from his SG. Make sure you check where the phoenixes are before you drop though.
Sorry I don't have exact timings, I think everyone is pretty much figuring out this new trend, but I hope this helps you a little.
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EPT
