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On November 16 2011 14:55 KimJongChill wrote: Hey guys, I'm trying to work out hatch first in zvz, but I'm never sure if or when I should be getting gas. Should I be building crawlers, how many queens, when to get bane nest? Ahh, it's really confusing to me. Also, how does a hatch first hold 10p?? Thanks in advance, yo.
Ten pool is a build order counter to hatch first. No matter what happens, you will lose/take lots of damage. By going ten pool, you take a risk because if your opponent went 14/14 then you will be behind and probably lose, but if he goes hatch first then its most likely an instant win. I've been experimenting with this build lately: 15 - Hatch 14 - Gas 14 - Pool You spend your first fifty gas on a baneling nest and THEN get ling speed. By getting a baneling nest, you zone your banelings so your opponent can't abuse their speed and pick off drones forever. If he goes roach all in or something like that, three spine crawlers + mass ling usuallly does the trick. VS Ling/Bling you will want to throw down a spine crawler at the choke and target banelings if/when they try to slip into your ramp. You wont kill em all, but it will soften them up for your queen to snipe some more. It's really tricky vs ling/bling, they have speed first which puts you in a tough spot. You have your expansion though, so you are ahead as long as you don't take damage. Micro plays a huge role here. But despite what some people will say, Roach is not the counter to baneling. I mean yeah, Roach is the counter to baneling in a fight, but by going roach you sacrifice map control early on (which is when it most matters). And just have two queens early on, one for each hatchery. You can make a third if you really want, but that money is better spent elsewhere.
Hello Fellow Zergs, I'm in a bit of a bind with my timing attacks. Whenever you execute a 2 hatch hydra push against a protoss. When should the attack hit? And how many drones are required to continuously rally hydras to the Protoss Expo? I played a game recently and was floating 1600 mins by the time the attack killed him, so I had wayy to many drones mining.
This has happened to me a couple of times now. After seeing no super-fast gas and stealing one of them, and seeing a hellion with a ling on his ramp, and sacrificing two overlords, I was pretty damn surprised to see banshees with cloak arriving two at a time.
Obiously the fact I couldn't see anything in his base ruled out mass barracks (unless proxied, but that's a different problem), but I was erring on the side of BFH, possibly with medivacs.
First question :How should I have read what he was doing? Should I have just accepted that I couldn't tell if he was going mass hellion or banshees and made queens/spores?
Also I find two-port banshee hard to deal with at the best of times - I don't think I've ever successfully defended it, in fact. I've seen it coming, made spores and queens, but he just backs off and doesn't commit until he has a critical mass that one-shots my queens, at which point I'm dead. If I try to get a lair up to go muta or hydra, the lack of queen production just gets me killed that much sooner.
Second question: What the heck do I do versus 2-port banshee anyway?
I guess having 4 queens in total just in case never bad idea, especially when you see he has no expand and doing something tricky. Also get hydra den asap after the lair if you see banshees, because what he did was an allin anyways.
Are you sure about the hydra? I ask for two reasons:
1. I've tried hydra before, and because they're so fat and low-range and stream in off two bases they all get picked off before they can shoot.
2. Going hydra just seems like an invitation for the terran to swap an addon, make a couple of tanks and drag the game out for another thirty minutes.
Wouldn't it be better to go spire instead? They have nothing to fear from popping out one at a time, and can actually go and DO something afterwards.
Obivously spire is 10x times better, but the thing is that spire comes much much later. You may lose a game in that time. Also keep in mind that his gas was stolen, so his banshees came a little later. And don't be afraid that he is going to counter hydras - he was doing allin, so if you defend banshees you gonna defend anything he will throw at you.
Also you had very low amount of drones, dunno what is your level but you need to drone much more in the begining. Those roaches were not useful as well. You had like 29 drones at 9 minute. You should has at least 45-50.
I have to go with the guy saying 'don't go hydra' here: what he describes (the banshees racking up and killing hydra faster than I can make them) is exactly what I've experienced.
About the drones, roaches etc:
I'm struggling pretty hard in silver at the moment, and frankly every time I even try to drone as much as you describe, I die. I made the roaches because I suspected either some marines or hellions incoming, and if it's more than a couple of hellions then - for me at least - not having a good number of roaches waiting is usually game over. Mind you, if he goes mech it's invariably game over a few minutes later anyway
Masters here. IMO the best counter is to always have 2 extra queens and an evo if he stays 1 base too long, also get a faster lair if you don't get a proper scout. Then once you see the banshees you make 1 spore at each base and produce 2 queens. You must asap confirm he's doing 2 port, and build a spire asap. Keep producing drones and if it was 2 port banshee you keep producing queens and get 4 spores at each base (Specifically 2 around the spire). Keep producing drones, holding off banshees, and once the spire pops, you will have about 1000 gas. Then you make a metric ton of mutas and you will win.
Do you guys that Violet's ZvT style is good and how viable is it, for those who dont know its going for some early roaches to clean off helions and put some pressure while taking third base, getting roaches, banelings and lings and delaying spire to about 12 mins, some exsamples of this you can find from MLG providence on game 1 and 2 Violet vs Ganzi.
On November 19 2011 22:04 Roynalf wrote: Do you guys that Violet's ZvT style is good and how viable is it, for those who dont know its going for some early roaches to clean off helions and put some pressure while taking third base, getting roaches, banelings and lings and delaying spire to about 12 mins, some exsamples of this you can find from MLG providence on game 1 and 2 Violet vs Ganzi.
You'll die to strong timing when your spire is getting up. Everyone would be making few roaches if it was an efficient thing, and there would not be so much brainstorming about dealing with hellions between players. Also, small preassure doesn't accomplish anything, so you just make less drones.
If you are certain that Terran can't push and kill you around that 11-12 min mark with tank/marine timing then go for roaches, but otherwise it's better to deal with standard hellions by making enaugh speedlings and positioning your buildings and queens well.
Another story if he goes ape shit with hellions, then you should get roaches, and he won't have enaugh tanks to kill you with the same timing.
What Zerg player would I mimic if I wanted to be aggresive but not cheesy, just pure SOLID aggression and not all-ins (hey tang) Hopefully they're aggresive in every matchup so I can steal their aggresive builds etc. Ty.
does anyone have the exact build order for losiras timing attack vs 3 gate expo? i remember it being 36 roach warren, but i remember there being some particular evo/lair timings, so one doesnt die to dt's/stargate play?
liquidpedia has a really looooooose version of the build, but nothing about evo/lair timing. plus i wanna be a korean and just grind out an efficiently timed build. ty!
On November 19 2011 20:31 Pillage wrote: Hello Fellow Zergs, I'm in a bit of a bind with my timing attacks. Whenever you execute a 2 hatch hydra push against a protoss. When should the attack hit? And how many drones are required to continuously rally hydras to the Protoss Expo? I played a game recently and was floating 1600 mins by the time the attack killed him, so I had wayy to many drones mining.
Here, this video of IdrA vs HuK is a great example of a 2 hatch hydra push. It hits at 10 minutes and that's a really good timing. I've tried this myself immediately after and won convincingly vs a toss that opened FFE into phoenix.
On November 20 2011 19:38 nicke10 wrote: What Zerg player would I mimic if I wanted to be aggresive but not cheesy, just pure SOLID aggression and not all-ins (hey tang) Hopefully they're aggresive in every matchup so I can steal their aggresive builds etc. Ty.
Derp, use Tangs builds...? Most aggression prior to 75+ drones will be considered an all in, just use Tangs builds but make slightly less units/more drones..
On November 20 2011 19:38 nicke10 wrote: What Zerg player would I mimic if I wanted to be aggresive but not cheesy, just pure SOLID aggression and not all-ins (hey tang) Hopefully they're aggresive in every matchup so I can steal their aggresive builds etc. Ty.
Leenock likes to apply roache ling pressure if the T went for quick hellion (usually if there were no bunker rush, he would drop down a roache warren and just starts to pump around 5 to 7 roaches for pressure along with some lings.
other than that, nothing much really. maybe speedlings pressure against a 3 gate expand toss?
Hi! Thanks for the thread. In ZvP late game i am stuggling to compete with 3/3 protoss stalker, colossi and a few archons composition, i am on 3/3 ranged/carapace, and 3/2ish air and have broods out by the 16ish minute mark, some corruptors with my broods for colossi and a roach ground army army, I try my best to make sure i only get good engagements, however stalkers just blink below my broods and target fire, and roachs get burned up by the collosi before my corruptors do enough damage to them. I am wondering if there is some special way to engage, or a way to get around this kind of issue, no matter how much i try i just seem to get rolled by the protoss 3/3 army.
On November 20 2011 23:11 ThePlayer33 wrote: when i play LiquidHero on ladder he somtimes do the warp prism + sentries into my main and FF my ramp.
even worse when he opens stargate and with 2 phoenix and a voidray.
Yep, thats easily stoppable if you have two spine crawlers or roach burrow movement. Or you can just spread your overlords and when you spot the warp prism coming, you just bring part of your army to your main. Careful not to bring your whole army as he can just attack your third. But yeah another way is to get mutalisks as soon as you see a robotics. A robotics seriously cant do anything against mutalisks, so thats another counter too I guess
I am wondering whether there are more efficient ways to micro mutas that will help you be ahead even if you have less mutas than the opponent or with similar muta counts.
Are there any good general guides on the Zerg match-ups? The ones in the recommended thread are outdated and the ones in the strategy section are for specific strategies and tactics not commonly used. I'm talking about like exactly when to get gas in ZvT, when to lair, what the standard opening for ZvZ is, when to take a third hatch and queen in ZvP, etc.
I've been suddenly losing a lot of games recently and I feel like my early game is a bit weak due to lack of knowledge in how to respond to certain situations. If I follow one build, it will be easier to figure out where to make deviations in my build but I don't know what the standard builds for each matchup are.
On November 11 2011 01:47 Belial88 wrote: Got with the metagame man. Idra and Nestea never make hydras in ZvZ anymore. I can't say for stephano, but I've never seen him use hydras in ZvZ recently.
No offense but this MLG showed how full of shit you are.
EPT
