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On November 21 2011 16:22 GhostKorean wrote: Are there any good general guides on the Zerg match-ups? The ones in the recommended thread are outdated and the ones in the strategy section are for specific strategies and tactics not commonly used. I'm talking about like exactly when to get gas in ZvT, when to lair, what the standard opening for ZvZ is, when to take a third hatch and queen in ZvP, etc.
I've been suddenly losing a lot of games recently and I feel like my early game is a bit weak due to lack of knowledge in how to respond to certain situations. If I follow one build, it will be easier to figure out where to make deviations in my build but I don't know what the standard builds for each matchup are.
Here are some very in-depth guides from about 2 months ago. One of the better resources I've come across. I hope it's at least close to what you're looking for! This might be a little outdated, but I think they're close to the strategies that are still being used.
Thanks a lot! These seem very detailed and I've only skimmed through them so far but they seem to be more up to date with the current trends.
blade55555's guides are mostly about outdated strategies and build orders and don't deal with overall vX matchups but just with how to execute certain builds against a race
On November 22 2011 09:07 GhostKorean wrote: Thanks a lot! These seem very detailed and I've only skimmed through them so far but they seem to be more up to date with the current trends.
blade55555's guides are mostly about outdated strategies and build orders and don't deal with overall vX matchups but just with how to execute certain builds against a race
You'll be pleased to hear that I'm currently making a guide about ZvP midgame too, since that was kind of lacking from my last ZvP guide.
What's a good upgrade strategy in ZvP? Specifically talking about +1 melee vs ranged vs carapace and the air ups as well. Some games I'll start off with +1 range and pump some roaches only to see he's going something like stalker/immortal with some sentries. At that point, +2 and continued roach production seems silly, as does hydra production since he's showed an active robo. At the same time, producing units like lings without any upgrades against a protoss army with 1-2 forges supporting is also asking for uneven trades. +1 melee works well for a while, but again I hesitate to go +2 if I'm using a roach-heavy comp in the midgame.
So yeah, keep upgrading on the original plan and just use whichever units are appropriate? Scout better? Run 2 evo chambers? Infestors and broodlords regardless of upgrade path?
I'm ok with an "it depends" answer, but would like insight on how top zergs make those decisions. Is it part of your gameplan going in, or are there points in the game where you re-evaluate the upgrades?
On November 23 2011 05:49 nanoscorp wrote: What's a good upgrade strategy in ZvP? Specifically talking about +1 melee vs ranged vs carapace and the air ups as well. Some games I'll start off with +1 range and pump some roaches only to see he's going something like stalker/immortal with some sentries. At that point, +2 and continued roach production seems silly, as does hydra production since he's showed an active robo. At the same time, producing units like lings without any upgrades against a protoss army with 1-2 forges supporting is also asking for uneven trades. +1 melee works well for a while, but again I hesitate to go +2 if I'm using a roach-heavy comp in the midgame.
So yeah, keep upgrading on the original plan and just use whichever units are appropriate? Scout better? Run 2 evo chambers? Infestors and broodlords regardless of upgrade path?
I'm ok with an "it depends" answer, but would like insight on how top zergs make those decisions. Is it part of your gameplan going in, or are there points in the game where you re-evaluate the upgrades?
If I'm going up against a gateway first build, I tend to get the +1 melee simply because their +1 ground attack will be delayed by a ton and my lings will be kept alive for a long time without the need for carapace upgrades that fast.
If I'm going up against an FFE, I pick between range and carapace. Because FFE has so many openings that deal with +2 baneling drops ( the main goal of a quick +1 melee ) and the possibility of a chronoed out +1 ground attack it's risky to rely on that upgrade. If you can't really scout him or didn't see any upgrades on the forge I tend to go for a +1 range, but if I do see him going for a fast +1 I get my carapace upgrade. Mainly because of my 3 base style where I have a macro hatchery and the possibility of going mass ling in times of perril. And then it isn't really about making your Zerglings better than his units, but make them not suck as much so they stay alive longer for tanking purposes for the Roaches.
On November 22 2011 09:07 GhostKorean wrote: Thanks a lot! These seem very detailed and I've only skimmed through them so far but they seem to be more up to date with the current trends.
blade55555's guides are mostly about outdated strategies and build orders and don't deal with overall vX matchups but just with how to execute certain builds against a race
The only ones that are out dated are the zvp roach/hydra/corruptor my first zvp.
My hatch first vs 14/14 I still do today, I just made a new zvz guide for muta play, zvt guide I still do today and same with the delayed lair zvp early game is still the same. Wouldn't say they are out dated. But I don't have any mid-late game zvp and don't know when I will write one for that
what's the "magic number" of corruptors against a 2 base collosus push? like, whats the least i can get without getting completely rolled over by collosus
On November 23 2011 19:36 courtpanda wrote: what's the "magic number" of corruptors against a 2 base collosus push? like, whats the least i can get without getting completely rolled over by collosus
I'm master toss btw, but I feel like I can comment.
Generally, 2 base colossi pushes are very all in and will come with 3 or so colossi. I think the general rule of thumb is 4-5 corrupters per colossi. So I would say around 8-12 corrupters should do the trick for you. Since he's only on 2 bases, his gateway force will be negligible and definitely wont be enough to kill your corrupters before they kill his colossi. From there, move your roaches in, don't get caught by forcefields, and you should win. The most important part though, is scouting the colossi and his lack of 3rd.
Hope I helped, perhaps a high level Zerg can give you better insight.
On November 21 2011 16:22 GhostKorean wrote: Are there any good general guides on the Zerg match-ups? The ones in the recommended thread are outdated and the ones in the strategy section are for specific strategies and tactics not commonly used. I'm talking about like exactly when to get gas in ZvT, when to lair, what the standard opening for ZvZ is, when to take a third hatch and queen in ZvP, etc.
I've been suddenly losing a lot of games recently and I feel like my early game is a bit weak due to lack of knowledge in how to respond to certain situations. If I follow one build, it will be easier to figure out where to make deviations in my build but I don't know what the standard builds for each matchup are.
Here are some very in-depth guides from about 2 months ago. One of the better resources I've come across. I hope it's at least close to what you're looking for! This might be a little outdated, but I think they're close to the strategies that are still being used.
On November 21 2011 16:22 GhostKorean wrote: Are there any good general guides on the Zerg match-ups? The ones in the recommended thread are outdated and the ones in the strategy section are for specific strategies and tactics not commonly used. I'm talking about like exactly when to get gas in ZvT, when to lair, what the standard opening for ZvZ is, when to take a third hatch and queen in ZvP, etc.
I've been suddenly losing a lot of games recently and I feel like my early game is a bit weak due to lack of knowledge in how to respond to certain situations. If I follow one build, it will be easier to figure out where to make deviations in my build but I don't know what the standard builds for each matchup are.
Here are some very in-depth guides from about 2 months ago. One of the better resources I've come across. I hope it's at least close to what you're looking for! This might be a little outdated, but I think they're close to the strategies that are still being used.
I'd also suggest going over blade55555's guides. Those have helped me out too! ^^
WOW, these guides are HUGE!!!
WHy haven't they got any public attention so far??? And what kind of site is this acutally?
They have actually... they are in the strategy reccomended threads thread. I wrote them to get more viewers to my portfolio site and to give something back to the community.
As to the corruptor question asked earlier, it really depends for me. Personally I prefer to stick around 8 corruptors to snipe out one or two collosus out of a push and then kill of the remaining army with Roach/Ling even if there is still a single or a pair of collosus around. I don't really like making a lot of corruptors because of their gas cost and relative uselessness after collosus have fallen.
In ZvZ, after the opening you transition into muta/ling and he transitions into roach/hydra/infestor. Eventually he takes a 3rd base and pushes when almost maxed. What is the ideal composition for the player who went mutas? Should he try to transition into roach/infestor himself once securing an economic lead or should he go for ultralisks?
I'm high masters but have only ran into this situations a couple of times as I rarely played mutas until recently, would appreciate if someone experienced can shed some light here.
in ZvZ muta vs muta, how do we micro mutas? Should we spread the mutas during the fight or keep them in a ball? This is assuming we have equal numbers and equal upgrade. I tried spreading my mutas and even had a 1 attack advantage and lost to a muta ball of equal number... which was strange.
On November 25 2011 10:29 Megaman_X wrote: in ZvZ muta vs muta, how do we micro mutas? Should we spread the mutas during the fight or keep them in a ball? This is assuming we have equal numbers and equal upgrade. I tried spreading my mutas and even had a 1 attack advantage and lost to a muta ball of equal number... which was strange.
On November 25 2011 04:26 BadBadMan wrote: In ZvZ, after the opening you transition into muta/ling and he transitions into roach/hydra/infestor. Eventually he takes a 3rd base and pushes when almost maxed. What is the ideal composition for the player who went mutas? Should he try to transition into roach/infestor himself once securing an economic lead or should he go for ultralisks?
I'm high masters but have only ran into this situations a couple of times as I rarely played mutas until recently, would appreciate if someone experienced can shed some light here.
if hes going roach hydra first, go muta ling bane and crush it. if hes getting infestors get ur own infestors or go ultra (?) (i havent experimented with ultras zvz much)
On November 25 2011 10:29 Megaman_X wrote: in ZvZ muta vs muta, how do we micro mutas? Should we spread the mutas during the fight or keep them in a ball? This is assuming we have equal numbers and equal upgrade. I tried spreading my mutas and even had a 1 attack advantage and lost to a muta ball of equal number... which was strange.
aside from getting a good angle( all your mutas are attacking while he has them spread out ) or fighting with ur queens/spores/overlords around(to soak up bounces) i dont think theres any realistic way to micro mutas. u can shift click and focus some down i guess but that apm would probably be better spent rallying reinforcements or using your lings in another engage
On November 25 2011 04:26 BadBadMan wrote: In ZvZ, after the opening you transition into muta/ling and he transitions into roach/hydra/infestor. Eventually he takes a 3rd base and pushes when almost maxed. What is the ideal composition for the player who went mutas? Should he try to transition into roach/infestor himself once securing an economic lead or should he go for ultralisks?
I'm high masters but have only ran into this situations a couple of times as I rarely played mutas until recently, would appreciate if someone experienced can shed some light here.
seeing as you already have spire tech i'd say go for brood lords and use mutas strictly to protect them while having a roach army to keep ground even though it usually don't go this far, i can't say for sure but that's definitely what i'd try.
On November 22 2011 09:07 GhostKorean wrote: Thanks a lot! These seem very detailed and I've only skimmed through them so far but they seem to be more up to date with the current trends.
blade55555's guides are mostly about outdated strategies and build orders and don't deal with overall vX matchups but just with how to execute certain builds against a race
The only ones that are out dated are the zvp roach/hydra/corruptor my first zvp.
My hatch first vs 14/14 I still do today, I just made a new zvz guide for muta play, zvt guide I still do today and same with the delayed lair zvp early game is still the same. Wouldn't say they are out dated. But I don't have any mid-late game zvp and don't know when I will write one for that
What are some good mid to late game zvp strategies? I took a long break from the game and I'm just starting to ladder again. But I'm having some trouble vs toss in general. I have the tendency to get too many roaches and it eats up my supply and I can only get about 68 drones. What's the ideal late game comp? (How many infestors BLs and what supporting unit?) I'd like an army that can deal directly with the toss army so lately I've been going +1 melee first roach ling into roach and bling drops. But I need help figuring out how and when to transition from this. Anyone have any general advice for going this route? I know Nerchio does this build and I've downloaded a few of his replays. Recommend any other replay/replay packs?
On November 22 2011 09:07 GhostKorean wrote: Thanks a lot! These seem very detailed and I've only skimmed through them so far but they seem to be more up to date with the current trends.
blade55555's guides are mostly about outdated strategies and build orders and don't deal with overall vX matchups but just with how to execute certain builds against a race
The only ones that are out dated are the zvp roach/hydra/corruptor my first zvp.
My hatch first vs 14/14 I still do today, I just made a new zvz guide for muta play, zvt guide I still do today and same with the delayed lair zvp early game is still the same. Wouldn't say they are out dated. But I don't have any mid-late game zvp and don't know when I will write one for that
What are some good mid to late game zvp strategies? I took a long break from the game and I'm just starting to ladder again. But I'm having some trouble vs toss in general. I have the tendency to get too many roaches and it eats up my supply and I can only get about 68 drones. What's the ideal late game comp? (How many infestors BLs and what supporting unit?) I'd like an army that can deal directly with the toss army so lately I've been going +1 melee first roach ling into roach and bling drops. But I need help figuring out how and when to transition from this. Anyone have any general advice for going this route? I know Nerchio does this build and I've downloaded a few of his replays. Recommend any other replay/replay packs?
Unfortunately zvp right now is the biggest pain for me. I am struggling super hard in the match up right now. I am trying muta play and what not but for late game I can only say mass broodlords is always a good option with infestor support roach/ling as well but otherwise the match up is beating my brain T_T
On November 22 2011 09:07 GhostKorean wrote: Thanks a lot! These seem very detailed and I've only skimmed through them so far but they seem to be more up to date with the current trends.
blade55555's guides are mostly about outdated strategies and build orders and don't deal with overall vX matchups but just with how to execute certain builds against a race
The only ones that are out dated are the zvp roach/hydra/corruptor my first zvp.
My hatch first vs 14/14 I still do today, I just made a new zvz guide for muta play, zvt guide I still do today and same with the delayed lair zvp early game is still the same. Wouldn't say they are out dated. But I don't have any mid-late game zvp and don't know when I will write one for that
What are some good mid to late game zvp strategies? I took a long break from the game and I'm just starting to ladder again. But I'm having some trouble vs toss in general. I have the tendency to get too many roaches and it eats up my supply and I can only get about 68 drones. What's the ideal late game comp? (How many infestors BLs and what supporting unit?) I'd like an army that can deal directly with the toss army so lately I've been going +1 melee first roach ling into roach and bling drops. But I need help figuring out how and when to transition from this. Anyone have any general advice for going this route? I know Nerchio does this build and I've downloaded a few of his replays. Recommend any other replay/replay packs?
Unfortunately zvp right now is the biggest pain for me. I am struggling super hard in the match up right now. I am trying muta play and what not but for late game I can only say mass broodlords is always a good option with infestor support roach/ling as well but otherwise the match up is beating my brain T_T
It can't be a good sign when the guy who wrote the guide on zvp is having trouble with it. I think I'll try mutas even though I don't like them (Really dislike indirect engagements and being vulnerable to just dying to a counter attack). And I think I'll even try that super quick BL build with a ton of spines. The plus side is that there will be 4 zvp series to learn from in about an hour. I wonder if DRG can pull it off without the food poisoning.
EPT
