|
As a protoss I often have some difficulty using / deciding when to use chronoboost during different stages of the game.
Early game: I find that chronoboosting my Nexus to be very useful but I'm not quite sure when boosting my gateway(s) or other unit production buildings becomes more useful then the Nexus for a standard build.
Mid game: This is where a large majority of my issues come. After I have researched warpgate and have one or two expos up I have trouble using the energy I have stockpiled up (I use it on research but not much else during this time period). I feel as if I'm "wasting" chronoboosts here because my Nexii can reach 100 energy and just stall there. Any advice for this point in the game?
Late game: Late game I mass Void Rays and chronoboost all my stargates so this portion isn't that bad for me if I had a stronger economy and macro the my opponent.
Any other opinions on when to chronoboost or what to chronoboost would be very helpful for many toss players. Thanks 
|
Chronoboost your warpgates and pump out another round of stalkers/zealots during the mid-game.
Or, perhaps start boosting 2 forges. Warpgates though, for faster unit production.
|
early game it depends on your timings. if you're playing standard then go chrono on your probes until your stalker (pvt) then chrono it, or just do probes the whole time.
mid game the importance looks something like this
abilities > upgrades > probes > units
|
Well chronoboosting your warpgate research is never a bad thing. Faster warpgate = faster unit production, and you'll get it in every single protoss build out there. I always end up chronoing out my first observer, and I'll chrono gateways if I'm feeling under pressure or going for a 4WG rush. Towards the midgame, I'll generally put all chrono energy into important research, such as thermal lance or psi-storm. Those abilities are so game altering that every second saved really counts, far more so than getting an extra stalker a little bit faster. Late game, just dump the energy into two forges for constant weapon and armor upgrades, or your cybercore if your going air. Saved chrono energy can also be nice for tech switches, such as sudden 2x robo colossus construction switch vs zerg. Chrono both robos constantly for a super fast 4x colossus push.
|
Basically what most said:
Early game:
first on probes
then usually the first gateway and warpgate. I do it so that I time my warpgate tech and first gateway to be in 4 seconds of eachother. Ie. the gateway finishes making a unit and can almost immediately get to warpgate wasting the least time off that gateway. This generally means 3 units out of the gateway before i turn it into a warpgate.
Midgame:
abilities, techs and critical units. Also keeping in check the timings follow eachother up nicely.
The first observer almost always gets boosted for example. If going for fast colossi it's important to note that 1 observer (40 secs) and 1 immortal 55(secs) with 3 CB's on them will take 65 secs total, exactly equal to the build time of the support bay.
Sometimes probe boosting also in midgame especially if you know your in a macro game with 2+ bases on both sides for example.
Lategame:
My robotics or stargate(s) and the forge. Sometimes I do a round on my gateways but I really dislike this, it puts the warpgates out of sync (unless you have enough energy for all warpgates) and warpgates are the cheapest production facility / least important.
|
I think through my chrono boost decisions intuitively in most games, which means doing what I "feel" is right. Having said that, the following is the underlying logic that I am attempting to make second nature.
The key to good chrono boost use is to use it carefully in the early game and liberally any other time. Plan out chrono boosts for your early build, but once mid game hits, check back at your nexus often. A good practice is to press your nexus/nexi hot keys every 10-15 seconds.
Early game:
chrono boost nexus
PvT: chrono boost stalkers/sentries out of 1st gateway, until warpgate finishes.
PvZ: chrono boost zealots out of 1st gateway to hold early pool/speedlings
Mid game:
If you are on 1 base, spend chrono boost in the following priority:
Tech unit > upgrades > warpgates. That should keep 1 nexus busy
Example: (4gate or 3gate/robo early pushes)
If you have an expansion, you will want to add in chrono boosting probes, but follow the same basic logic.
Late game:
By late game (in a large macro game), you will likely have multiple upgrades on the go and multiple tech buildings (robos, stargates), and a ton of warpgates. The main difference between mid and late game as far as chrono boost is concerned is the placement of your buildings.
Do you have 2 forges? Are they beside each other or on opposite parts of the map? Same goes for tech buildings, and (most importantly) for warpgates. Having said this, one of the most under-used applications of chrono boost in the late game is your warpgates. Why? Because you have so many!
However, taking the time to boost your warpgates in late game is a good practice. Boosted warpgates allow you to reinforce that much quicker. Consider the value of warping in 8-10 3/2/0 Chargelots, and then boosting those gateways to repeat the cycle. At 200/200, fully upgrade Protoss armies are (relatively speaking) more powerful [not more numerous] than the other 2 races. Therefore, as most late game play shows, the ability to replenish an army after you have traded armies is one of the largest factors in success or defeat. That means that returning to your nexus in the late game is just as important as the early/mid game. Get into the habit of checking.
Chrono boost gives you a significant edge, so don't be caught with 100 energy on a Nexus! In any case, I hope this helps.
|
On September 21 2010 09:50 Markwerf wrote:
Midgame:
abilities, techs and critical units. Also keeping in check the timings follow eachother up nicely.
The first observer almost always gets boosted for example. If going for fast colossi it's important to note that 1 observer (40 secs) and 1 immortal 55(secs) with 3 CB's on them will take 65 secs total, exactly equal to the build time of the support bay.
Sometimes probe boosting also in midgame especially if you know your in a macro game with 2+ bases on both sides for example.
I wasn't aware that the timing for 1 observer and immortal timed so well with Colossi thanks for informing me about that. It'll probally be a bit easier to decide what to do midgame now.
|
Depending on if you want to apply early pressure, I sometimes save up my CB and use it all on Warp Gate tech research to get an early Warp Gate push going and then start boosting my nexus to make up for lost time in probe production. Useful if you want to get ahead in unit count early.
|
Generally speaking, anything you have 1 of, that was important enough to get in the first place, probably a good candidate. Especially if it takes a long time or has multiple upgrades you want.
Burning several on psi storm, then amulet, so you actually get it out in a reasonable time.
Extended thermal lances. Zealot leg speed. Forge upgrades..
I don't like CB warpgates because id rather just add on another gateway.
|
Things to boost.
Early game
Boost when your first pylon finishes to make 2 probes, boost again for probes 13 and 14.
Boost Warp gate research from your core.
Alternatively if you are doing PvT FE you should use your boosts to make faster units off of your 1 gateway.
When your robo finishes, boost an observer and rally him to you opponent's base.
In PvP you can boost immortals for the timing push or boost colossi for the tech push /boost thermal lance.
Generally speaking, boosting probes is never a bad choice. Saving a little bit of boost will allow warpgates to be more responsive (i.e. you see a terran player going mass marine and you have a heavy stalker mix, warp in 3 zealots, boost the gates and warp in 3 more.
|
I find this needs to reflect your gameplay style.
If you play super macro style, you largely just boost your nexus.
If you want to rush tech, you boost tech.
If you want to rush units, you boost gates.
For example: 10 Pylon 10 Gate into fast 4-Gate:
You chronoboost asap (but just once!) because you are gonna pump out probes till 10 anyway (no pylon on 9), then make that pylon on 10 and the gate on 10. Asap throw down a cyber core and build more probes. When the cyber core is done, start teching for warp-in and chronoboost that constantly (which you will now have enough energy for). Add Warpgates and Pylons (don't know the exact timings there sorry, and of course you need gas before cyber core finishes but you get the gist).
If you think "Oh god, I wanna make a push, but I need another production cycle", just CB the gate. If you want that damn blink to finish faster, CB the Twilight Council. It all comes down to what you deem important at that exact moment.
When I random on ladder I mostly just boost my probes (I kind of think that 10gate is a bit cheesy for my taste, but against Zerg on Steppes it is quite important I think), as I usually play Zerg and am quite comfortable with a more macro-oriented game. When I have more than one Nexus I tend to throw some CBs at my stargates, cause anything coming out of those takes super long to warp, and sometimes I just want to defend / harass with air units faster.
Again, all preference...
However, just stick to whatever floats your boat mate and you will be fine.
|
On September 21 2010 09:34 mOnion wrote:
mid game the importance looks something like this
abilities > upgrades > probes > units
This is what I do for the most part. There is ALWAYS something you can chrono boost. Love boosted dual forge upgrades.
|
BUMP
I've been thinking about chronoboost and I hear about how important chronoboosting your nexus is, but in games probes production isn't usually an issue unless the enemy does some good harassment causing me to lose probes.
I usually chrono my nexus once or twice at the start but then if I chrono more I am over saturated very quickly and I don't have enough money to expand so I either cut probes or just have way too many probes, neither of which seems very optimal.
I find that if I use my chrono on gateways at the beginning, I can get away with less gates allowing me to get my 2nd nexus more quickly. Then with 2 nexus if I choose to chrono those saturate very quickly and end up cutting probes till I get my 3rd nexus.
Anyways, it always seems like if I chrono the nexus I have to cut probes at some point and that seems counter intuitive to me. Whereas if I chrono gateways at the start I can have less unit producing structures.
But then chronoboosting the warpgate is a good idea, but I've done some rough calculations and it only seems to get you more units per chrono, from the faster warpgate technology, if you have 2 or more gateways. 1 gateways seems close to even except that you get your units first with chronoboosting the gateways.
CALCULATIONS
140 GTS for warpgate upgrade
Lets say we use 4 chronoboosts on the warpgate
total time of 100 GTS (80 GTS of chronoboost finishes 120 GTS of upgrade leaving 20 GTS)
40 GTS time gained for each warpgate to produce.
32 GTS stalker = 1.25 extra stalkers for each warpgate
1 warpgate = 1.25 stalkers
2 warpgate = 2.5 stalkers
3 warpgates = 3.75 stalkers
4 warpgates = 5 stalkers
Now if we take those 4 chronoboosts and apply them to our gateways.
42 GTS per stalker
2 chronoboosts per stalker will give a time of 28.6 GTS
2 stalkers would use 4 chronoboosts and would finish in 57.3 GTS and give you a total of 0.75 extra stalkers
So 2 gates it is better to chrono your warpgate research and with 1 gate is a tossup of if you need those units now or later.
Any thoughts?
|
On October 29 2010 01:58 HECKER wrote:
BUMP
I've been thinking about chronoboost and I hear about how important chronoboosting your nexus is, but in games probes production isn't usually an issue unless the enemy does some good harassment causing me to lose probes.
I usually chrono my nexus once or twice at the start but then if I chrono more I am over saturated very quickly and I don't have enough money to expand so I either cut probes or just have way too many probes, neither of which seems very optimal.
If you cant afford an expansion off of a fully saturated main then you must be doing some weird, late all in strategy. The point of early over saturation is to prepare for your natural, meaning you will be able to afford it unless you are constantly making/losing units that you can keep your money at 0.
Something is off with your logic.
|
On October 29 2010 02:17 Gemini_19 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 01:58 HECKER wrote:
BUMP
I've been thinking about chronoboost and I hear about how important chronoboosting your nexus is, but in games probes production isn't usually an issue unless the enemy does some good harassment causing me to lose probes.
I usually chrono my nexus once or twice at the start but then if I chrono more I am over saturated very quickly and I don't have enough money to expand so I either cut probes or just have way too many probes, neither of which seems very optimal.
If you cant afford an expansion off of a fully saturated main then you must be doing some weird, late all in strategy. The point of early over saturation is to prepare for your natural, meaning you will be able to afford it unless you are constantly making/losing units that you can keep your money at 0. Something is off with your logic.
3 gate or 2 gate robo will spend 100% of your minerals. If you can expand off these builds without cutting probes/units then you're not macroing correctly.
|
On October 29 2010 02:41 HECKER wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 02:17 Gemini_19 wrote:On October 29 2010 01:58 HECKER wrote:
BUMP
I've been thinking about chronoboost and I hear about how important chronoboosting your nexus is, but in games probes production isn't usually an issue unless the enemy does some good harassment causing me to lose probes.
I usually chrono my nexus once or twice at the start but then if I chrono more I am over saturated very quickly and I don't have enough money to expand so I either cut probes or just have way too many probes, neither of which seems very optimal.
If you cant afford an expansion off of a fully saturated main then you must be doing some weird, late all in strategy. The point of early over saturation is to prepare for your natural, meaning you will be able to afford it unless you are constantly making/losing units that you can keep your money at 0. Something is off with your logic. 3 gate or 2 gate robo will spend 100% of your minerals. If you can expand off these builds without cutting probes/units then you're not macroing correctly.
Well you're obviously not going to be making something out of everything 100% of the time, that is what I just defined as somewhat of an all in. I go 3 gate robo not to constantly make units and let my money be at 0 non stop, but to have it as a cushion in case I need the extra units if there is any sort of early pressure. I can then easily expand and I also don't have to worry about getting as many extra gateways since I already have 3.
|
here's my rule.. after warpgate tech is done, there's nothing wrong with saving chronoboost.
Don't ever chronobooost gateways for no reason. (Do it only when you need defense or about to attack).
Mid game you will save up some chronoboost which you can use on: saturating expo, higher tech units/upgrades, forge
|
So you're saying I should have a build that requires me to cut production in order to not be all in? And that I should use my chronoboost on units (workers, fighting units, warpgate which increases unit production) that will be cut in the future otherwise I'll be all in?
|
On October 29 2010 04:39 HECKER wrote:
So you're saying I should have a build that requires me to cut production in order to not be all in? And that I should use my chronoboost on units (workers, fighting units, warpgate which increases unit production) that will be cut in the future otherwise I'll be all in?
Not necessarily. In the beginning I'm chronoboosting almost only probes. Unless it's a unit that takes a while to make or is of vital importance to get out (colossus, immortal, phoenix, void ray).
I guess I stated what I meant wrong. Ignore it then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
