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[Q] When and how to use 250 mm Thor? - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
September 17 2010 01:30 GMT
#41
Immortals and buildings.

Although, perhaps against a sieged tank the sieged tank will get less shots off if you 250 it as opposed to just kill it normally.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
AzureD
Profile Joined September 2010
United States320 Posts
September 17 2010 07:09 GMT
#42
In order for a Thor to beat an Ultra you need to fire your main guns for a split second and THEN use 250mm cannons and you will beat the Ultra no matter how high its upgrades are compared to yours.

Basically any damage before or during the use of the ability will allow you to kill the Ultra.

One other potential use is to freeze a retreating enemy so they can not escape. Would work better if it had a lower cd first. If an Archon, Immortal, or Colossus is trying to get away you can probably use this to stop any micro they could be attempting. This probably would work much better when using a Dropship. Perhaps there is some potential in this in a timing drop to assassinate a Colossi or Immortal when it comes out of the robo facility.

Also do those cannons stop buildings from functioning? I am pretty sure it stops defensive buildings from being able to fire.
AzureD
Profile Joined September 2010
United States320 Posts
September 17 2010 07:12 GMT
#43
In order for a Thor to beat an Ultra you need to fire your main guns for a split second and THEN use 250mm cannons and you will beat the Ultra no matter how high its upgrades are compared to yours.

Basically any damage before or during the use of the ability will allow you to kill the Ultra.

One other potential use is to freeze a retreating enemy so they can not escape. Would work better if it had a lower cd first. If an Archon, Immortal, or Colossus is trying to get away you can probably use this to stop any micro they could be attempting. This probably would work much better when using a Dropship. Perhaps there is some potential in this in a timing drop to assassinate a Colossi or Immortal when it comes out of the robo facility.

Also do those cannons stop buildings from functioning? I am pretty sure it stops defensive buildings from being able to fire.
Xizorz
Profile Joined August 2010
93 Posts
September 17 2010 11:36 GMT
#44
On September 17 2010 08:05 PimpMobeel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2010 07:08 Xizorz wrote:
On September 17 2010 05:32 AzureD wrote:
If the cool down time is not an issue then the strike cannons can be worth it. When doing this with unit tests I noticed that I could only beat large Ultra armies using 250mm cannons.

In general though it is not a very useful ability in TvZ.

A Thor without 250mm cannons can not beat an Ultra. A Thor with that upgrade however will despite calculations saying that the dps is the same. In-game results trump theory crafted calculations.

So the ability is not COMPLETELY useless just not worth the cost as it is barely better than regular guns. If the ability had a much shorter start up time it would be much better.

That's because in a 1 thor vs 1 ultra situation, the 2 second cooldown at the end of the animation doesnt come into play.

But in an ingame situation, you can 250 MM an ultra, and kill it, but you're losing a normal shot on the next ultra during those 2 seconds.

250mm cannon does NOT kill an ultralisk. It leaves it with 1 hp left due to zerg units having regen and then the thor is sitting ducks for another 2 seconds. In general +1 weapons upgrade will do more dps than the cannon in its entire 10sec duration (i.e. against ultralisks) and +3 weapons upgrade will do more damage in the 8sec duration the cannon functions; of course armour upgrades change that a bit but it does not take away from the fact that this upgrade is almost totally useless. Might be usable against colossi and immortals in small battles and pfs as others have suggested, but in large numbers expect tanks and void rays/immortals/hts/colossi to completely wreck the crap out of thors.



Well, you shoot the ultra once, then 250mm it. The thor will win.

Any upgrade combination of attack > move, though, the ultra will win with equal upgrade.
Grummler
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany743 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-17 12:20:48
September 17 2010 12:19 GMT
#45
On September 16 2010 23:32 shawabawa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2010 23:23 sajfen wrote:
The 250mm canon ignores armor so its not worthless against ultras at all. How can you play terran and not know that?

Maxed ultras have 6 armour, thors naturally do 30x2. Thors attack cooldown is 1.28 seconds. Strike cannons does 500 damage over 10 seconds (2 seconds to enter, 2 seconds to exit, 6 seconds duration). So strike cannons do 50 dps, plus you can't move during that time.

+ Show Spoiler +
With level 1 weapons:
Thors DPS vs unarmoured target = 66/1.28 = 51.56
Thors DPS vs 6 armour = 54/1.28 = 42.18

With level 2 weapons:
Thors DPS vs unarmoured target = 72/1.28 = 56.25
Thors DPS vs 6 armour = 60/1.28 = 46.875

With level 3 weapons:

Thors DPS vs unarmoured target = 78/1.28 = 60.9
Thors DPS vs 6 armour = 66/1.28 = 51.56

Conclusion: another +1 attack is so much more worth it than strike cannons.


With level 3 vehicle attack, even against the most armoured target in the game, strike cannons has less dps than regular attack and has the same range. Plus you can't switch target until it's over, plus it overkills most units in the game, plus you can't move.

The only situation in the game where it has a use is vs Immortals. And to stun I guess, but now that ultra's can't be stunned and it kills everything else near instantly anyway...


This. I made the math yesterday for myself, as i was toying arround with 250mm. As long as the stun doesnt help a lot, 250mm is totally useless. Even with good stunable targets it is pretty bad, because of np and feedback.

Blizz should decrease the duration and remove the stun effect. 500dmg over 10 seconds is just to slow. 500 over 5 seconds without stun sounds much more reasonable
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