EPTProxy barracks is a huge issue in TVT - Page 4
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Jyxz
United States117 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On September 15 2010 05:05 InfestedSC2 wrote: So, I'm entirely sick of losing to stupid proxy barracks in TvT. And this doesn't just happen at lower levels; a 1500 diamond player just did it to me today. Why am I sick of it? There's no way to scout it early enough to stop it. Stopped reading there. I'm sorry, but that is just literally impossible. | ||
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SoFFacet
United States101 Posts
On September 15 2010 15:22 Subversion wrote: Stopped reading there. I'm sorry, but that is just literally impossible. I'm pretty sure what he meant is that there is no way to scout it without putting yourself and an unacceptable advantage against standard play. Not that I necessarily agree that it does in this case, but in general, unavoidably blind decisions are bad for gameplay. I haven't faced this yet so I just have a few questions. If you 12 scout (scv that built depot) the proxy locations, do you catch it in time? If so then this likely isn't an issue. Theres nothing all that important to find in the enemy base at that time anyways, so take a few seconds and scout the proxies to play it safe. If thats not fast enough then we might have a problem. | ||
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jdobrev
Bulgaria162 Posts
as other already said, don't get lazy about scouting proxy locations. What I like doing is scout just below my ramp (also scout in my base with the 12th scv while waiting for rax money) and then head straight to his base while checking a xel naga tower on the way if that's an option. you can usually see what he's doing by the amount of SCVs he has mining (and see if it's reapers or marines cuz of gas). Generally people don't go proxy marines on 4player maps. if you see no gas - prepare for marines: If it's not superclose to or in your base, you should be fine by pulling a few scvs to the ramp and building a bunker while defending. What that scv number is - test it out with a friend and see how many you're comfortable with, it depends on your micro. if you see gas - build a tech lab asap and make a marauder if you don't panic and don't screw up by a lot, you should be ahead of your opponent economy and tech wise. | ||
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attackfighter
Canada308 Posts
On September 15 2010 16:14 SoFFacet wrote: If you 12 scout (scv that built depot) the proxy locations, do you catch it in time? Yes you do. I proxy marine rush in a lot of my TvT's and I don't think an opponent has ever failed to scout me in time on a 2 player map. Those that do scout me still sometimes lose, but only because they're retarded and make really bad decisions, which I think is what OP's problem is. It should be an auto-win if you scout it, and if you don't scout it for whatever reason you can still minimize your losses with decent micro. This topic is just ridiculous... | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
Protoss players have to 9 pylon scout unless they want to risk getting bunker rushed, which is a big deal cause it pushes a regular 13 gateway back to 14 gateway or if you go 12 gate, there's a significant delay on your 13th probe. | ||
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
.Make sure on 1v1 maps you scout nice and early (like after supply depot goes down) checking the obvious places .Pull scv's if you need to. They'll be behind you anyway considering they sent 2 scv's to your base so early in the game. This is all I can think you can do. Anyone practiced this with a partner and knows for sure how the rough timings work out with a 10 supply 12 rax? | ||
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PhoenixM1
United States178 Posts
On September 15 2010 05:07 DreamSailor wrote: Scout inside your base then. If you catch the proxy barracks, you are in a huge advantage, you can kill the SCV, he loses his barracks, and has to start over. ^this works. . .his scv certainly isn't going to be able to build a rax if you scouted him when he starts. If it isn't really inside your base you shouldn't have to much trouble holding your ramp with scvs and rines even if your barracks is a little behind. | ||
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
or how about a WALL ? he'll never be able to sneak an scv up your ramp because your first supply depot will spot it even on the tiny maps. | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
On September 15 2010 14:37 attackfighter wrote: And that's why you put your bunker at your choke... yeah that would have helped me lose even faster. the timings worked out such that my scv was already under fire while building the bunker, if i waited 5 more seconds for my scv to run to my choke, the bunker would never have even come up. look, i'm just trying to say it's not as easy as putting down a bunker and winning. | ||
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TLChronos
10 Posts
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attackfighter
Canada308 Posts
On September 16 2010 00:53 blagoonga123 wrote: yeah that would have helped me lose even faster. the timings worked out such that my scv was already under fire while building the bunker, if i waited 5 more seconds for my scv to run to my choke, the bunker would never have even come up. look, i'm just trying to say it's not as easy as putting down a bunker and winning. That's because you scouted late and payed the price, and if he came that early he should've only had 1 or 2 marines so your SCV's could've easily overpowered them. It's not the impossible situation you're trying to portray it is, you just played poorly and lost. | ||
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MadBoat
127 Posts
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Sleight
2471 Posts
The issue in the matchup, IF ANYTHING, is getting 9 Rax Proxy Reaper'd. Jesus, those are my only losses anymore TvT. I just pack up the proverbial toys and go home to that opening. | ||
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SOB_Maj_Brian
United States522 Posts
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Techno
1900 Posts
On September 15 2010 05:05 InfestedSC2 wrote: Some people may try to refute my claim by saying that you just need to get your barracks up earlier. It's true that I have stopped this rush with an 11 barracks. However, going for an 11 barracks is simply UNACCEPTABLE. Why is it unacceptable? Because if your opponent goes for 12 gas 13 rax (economical tech build), you will auto lose. No you wont. If your so worried about cheese. Do an anti cheese build. Sure it will set you behind in some games, but to say you "autolose" is a terrrrrrrible way to think. Its the way people think after they lose 3+ games in a row. You never autolose due to build differences unless you play the "my big ball of units fights your big ball of units in the middle of the map, winner take all" style of play, and if so, then you should try to do other things to win. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
1) Always scout on 9, after your depot. Scout common proxy locations (including inside your base on 2-player maps), then go to his base. If the proxy is in your base: + Show Spoiler + 1) Pull one worker to put on each one of his workers. You will catch the rax before it is completed. This will prevent him from building bunkers, and you may even kill him before his rax finishes, giving you an insta-win. Put first marine on him asap if he tries to bunker. 2) Don't upgrade OC. Use 100 of the 150 you would have spent on the OC building a bunker by his raxes (close enough that your marines will kill his rines as they come out) If the proxy is outside of your base. + Show Spoiler + 1) Keep your scout SCV around the raxes to see if he tech-labs to do reapers. If he doesn't, continue. If he does, quit and make a new thread about how it is unbeatable. This SCV also can tell when marines are coming. 2) Don't build your OC. Send a marine to your ramp and start building a bunker. 3) Every time you see a marine come out of his raxes, pull 2-3 scvs off the line to fight them off until your bunker gets up. 3a) If the scv comes into your base to bunker, pull an scv or two to put on him as well. Get your first marine on him asap. 4) Once your bunker gets up, put scvs back on mining, put marines in bunker, win. If your opponent is not proxying: + Show Spoiler + 1) Play normal If you did not find the proxy, he runs in with marines, and you lose: + Show Spoiler + 1) Watch replay, add that proxy location to your mental list of spots to check, grab tissues & have a good cry, try again. There, every possible case accounted for. It takes some micro to win and you can still screw up and lose if you do it wrong, but follow this and you should be fine. | ||
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KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
just played a game, got proxy 8-rax reaper rushed, and I honestly don't think I could have stopped it, even if I did scout it. here's rep: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-149266.jpg) I'd really like to know how I'm supposed to scout this in time, first of all, since there are 3 good proxy locations on Sands (outside the base, and the gold patches) and then of course how I stop it without a marauder, since there is know way I could have gotten a Marauder out before the first reaper got in my base. If you have anything to say, I'd like you to post a replay of you or someone else stopping this strat, or point me to a vod of someone stopping it. | ||
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Pigzyf5
Australia131 Posts
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