I've switched over to Protoss and have been trying out various strategies (incl. 4 gate of course). When I used to play Z I absolutely hated P who fast expanded with a forge at their front -- it was one of the hardest things to deal with. I haven't saved any replays though, so I was hoping someone could post links to high diamond level PvZ replay or commentary where the P used this strat.

I'm mostly curious for building positioning, but build orders will be nice also. Thanks!

Sparklejar

Sweden38 Posts

September 12 2010 17:40 GMT

You won't catch a replay of a good protoss winning with this, the simple answer is that it is pretty horrible unless the zerg is awful. When I played a zerg I just got a huge smile whenever a toss did this as a 2 base-hydra push will kill it unless you severly outclass the zerg.

Medzo

United States627 Posts

September 12 2010 18:03 GMT

uh actually its pretty good but you gotta block zergs ramp and stop him from expanding for a handful of minutes.

AWESOME1337

Germany29 Posts

September 12 2010 18:07 GMT

Here is one of my replays, its on Scrap station.
I'm doing the FFE and he trys to beat me up with mutas + lings.

Enjoy!

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/79020-1v1-protoss-zerg-schrottplatz

wisedimple

4 Posts

September 12 2010 18:11 GMT

Here's a replay of a game between NEXgenius vs oGsCool on metalopolis. Intense game, and it demonstrated good play from protoss.

replay:
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/36290

Here's the youtube link to a commentary in case you can't view the replay right now:

nekuodah

England2409 Posts

September 12 2010 22:26 GMT

On September 13 2010 02:40 Sparklejar wrote:
You won't catch a replay of a good protoss winning with this, the simple answer is that it is pretty horrible unless the zerg is awful. When I played a zerg I just got a huge smile whenever a toss did this as a 2 base-hydra push will kill it unless you severly outclass the zerg.

Really? ive seen alot of top protoss start using this in PvZ a recent example is kiwikaki vs dimaga Bo7 showmatch, ive also seen huk do it vs machine and plenty of other games. (successfully)

zealotz55

United States229 Posts

September 12 2010 22:36 GMT

On September 13 2010 07:26 nekuodah wrote:

Show nested quote +

Really? ive seen alot of top protoss start using this in PvZ a recent example is kiwikaki vs dimaga Bo7 showmatch, ive also seen huk do it vs machine and plenty of other games. (successfully)

yeah ive found it to be a pretty safe opening, I have had some trouble with a zerg practice partner that 1 or 2 base hydra rushes and spawns creep in front of my wall at natural and micro hydras to destroy my wall while using zerglings as a distraction.

if you FFE this is hard to deal with but I always figured my inability to deal with this was because my fast 2 base macro was a bit off I need more stalkers, and a faster robo. I might need to cut probe production a bit in order to do this.

If I pull off a FFE vs a good opponent ill upload it for you but hopefully someone better then me will post it since my execution needs work.

hellsan631

United States695 Posts

September 12 2010 22:42 GMT

2 base hydra is so easy to deal with if you get colossus or high Templar out in time (which you do, 90% if the time). I saw a bunch of this in the GSL and it worked to great success. I personally prefer a 1 gate + forge FE , with constant zealot production, you can do a weird +1 timing push that comes at an off time, when zerg is usually pumping drones. and defend after wards from any counter attack.

then, phoenix into HT play pretty much seals the deal with PvZ. such an easy match up really. i do think that Z needs some sort of help in PvZ.

Floophead_III

United States1832 Posts

September 12 2010 22:46 GMT

Wrong. Wrong. And wrong.

There's many different cheeses zerg can do so it puts the burden on protoss to scout, react, and play defense. However, if zerg tries anything but 3 base play it's an allin. You have so much economy and tech on a forge FE play that you can turtle for 15 minutes and push out with this ridiculous unstoppable ball of doom. It's fun to see zergs try to crush you early and just roll over and die 5 minutes later.

Forge FE however is only viable on a handful of ladder maps.

Hakker

United States1360 Posts

September 12 2010 22:48 GMT

#10

Opening 3gate robo and expanding when the first immortal comes out is much safer and it leaves you with an observer and the ability to transition into colossus

zealotz55

United States229 Posts

September 12 2010 23:43 GMT

#11

NEXgenius does it the pro way. Nexus, forge, gate, cannon

I do it the slightly safer, but maybe less rewarding way where I forge, cannon, nexus, gate (nexus on about 15)

normally I will only try this on lost temple, or maybe blistering sands but on sands the backdoor may give you trouble.

Is it ok on blistering sands?

Now that I saw some pro building placement from NEXgenius I may start doing it on metal, we'll see though.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

September 13 2010 00:54 GMT

#12

It is a very viable strat, though it ranges from safe to fairly risky from map to map.
Lost temple, blistering sands, metapolis, scrap station and steppes of war it's quite possible the other maps not so much.
On scrap station it's fairly risky against a 6 pool though.
The build order is just 9-pylon, 13-forge. Then add nexus, cannon and warpgate in a order depending on the build order of the zerg.

Generally I prefer to go sentry before walling and possible cannoning up my expo though because a no-gas build like the Forge FE isn''t really that economically better. Saturation kicks in very fast for protoss because of chronoboost so a build with very delayed gas actually only has a slight mineral advantage vs a huge gas defecit, in other words I think builds that delay getting their gas so late aren't too good.
I also don't like the vulnerability of various forge FE's to 6 pools etc. The maps where you can wall are 2 player maps or small 4 player maps so by doing it you are taking a fair risk from the start.

Only LT, metalopolis and steppes of war do I really like it. By going pylon + forge at the bottom of the ramp you can defend against a 6 pool but also put up the cannon next to the nexus do defend later trouble. Perhaps i'll put up some pictures on good placements later but takes a fair amount of time to make :<

Zeis

United States14 Posts

September 13 2010 18:02 GMT

#13

Thanks for the replys guys, i'll take a look at the replays. keep them coming if there's any more =)

SlimeBagly

356 Posts

September 29 2010 05:39 GMT

#14

In that NexGenius replay, why did he leave the hole between the cannon and the gate? wouldn't it be better to make that solid to prevent the lings from surrounding it/running by? It wouldn't be a deadwall because you can go around the nexus.