Assuming both players are not able to come out ahead and the game has gotten to a stage where the terran player has 10 tanks + a medium mmm ball, maybe 10 marines, 5 marauders and 3 medivacs. If both player has equal knowledge about the position of the other's units. What would be the best set of units for protoss to fight with? Assuming protoss could only spend up to 10 tanks, 10 marines, 5 marauders and 3 medivacs worth of units, ignoring tech, assuming the protoss player has the tech required.

How would the scenario be different if it were 10 tanks + 8 vikings. Thanks for the inputs guys.

I understand there are many other variables such as ghosts, flanking, vision, positional issues, but let's for the sake of this thought process ignore them and give both players full vision of the region of the battle with unlimited scans and invincible observers.

Tanks + mmm ball
Tanks + vikings

Thanks for your input! ^-^

*EDIT
Tanks are sieged

TheImpact

United States29 Posts

September 01 2010 04:01 GMT

Carries and a Mothership. (Very unrealistic in this scenario though)

A more realistic matchup would probably be with Garudians, HT, maybe some zealots or Phoenix. I'm not really a Protoss player though so, take my advice with a grain of salt (never understood that saying).

xberges

Dominican Republic56 Posts

September 01 2010 04:30 GMT

Hey, i'd recommend you to see yesterdays day9 cast. He talked about this, basically its a macro style play and it has worked for me. Hopes this helps.

Omeg4

United States2 Posts

September 01 2010 04:32 GMT

Instead of seeing a nearly invincible army of MMM+tanks and panicking, think of how to beat each unit individually. Immortals (is that what TheImpact meant when he said Guardians...?) melt through tanks, and phoenixes can also be used to lift them temporarily. As for MMM, the key is mass zealots to absorb fire, and HTs to psi storm the bioball. Make sure not to forget that you can feedback medivacs - they have something like 140 health but 200 energy - if your opponent has been massing his army for some time, some trivially easy feedback micro can decimate his healing support. HTs have 200 energy, and feedback costs 50. Use this to your advantage. In addition, a few stalkers can be used to snipe any wounded medivacs. Even if you don't one shot them, draining all of their energy will be invaluable as it allows the rest of your army to turn the enemy marines into sweet, sweet giblets. Of course, tanks obliterate infantry, and bioball demolishes Immortals. Just micro your army efficiently to make sure that you're not exposing the wrong units. Again, this would be where phoenixes would be useful to lift tanks then bring in your ground force. It won't be easy, but it's very doable.

Omeg4

United States2 Posts

September 01 2010 04:33 GMT

On September 01 2010 13:30 xberges wrote:
Hey, i'd recommend you to see yesterdays day9 cast. He talked about this, basically its a macro style play and it has worked for me. Hopes this helps.

Which daily # would that be?

protoss22

United States41 Posts

September 01 2010 04:42 GMT

Yeah, I do understand how that works, but siege tanks have a large range. What I meant was that they're sieged

Sully907

United States97 Posts

September 01 2010 05:32 GMT

Another thing to try is, after the patch,archons will be even more effective for soaking up tank fire. Lead with those and our tanks will have trouble taking them down, and even if they do, it buys time for your zealots and immortals to get in close.

DGMavn

United States48 Posts

September 01 2010 05:49 GMT

On September 01 2010 13:33 Omeg4 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Which daily # would that be?

Number 168: PvT Macro Style

Yokoblue

Canada594 Posts

September 01 2010 05:56 GMT

Same problem as you, MMM + tanks

I dont know what do to... I went macro style and map control + a lot of harass with warp prism but i still lost...

Btw really good game so... its cool to watch

Would like some tips, he wasnt that far in upgrade in frotn of me (1-0) so couldnt be taht...

protoss22

United States41 Posts

September 01 2010 19:06 GMT

#10

It seems that it is expected of the protoss to have more income or units to beat the tank++?
It is possible to come out even or perhaps slightly ahead with equal cost units?
Nice replay, showed some interesting stuffs.

SiN]

United States540 Posts

September 01 2010 19:09 GMT

#11

If you see your opponent getting a lot of tanks, pump immortals out of two robos. Mass immortals mixed with small amounts of gateway units will destroy mass tanks.

T0fuuu

Australia2275 Posts

September 01 2010 20:14 GMT

#12

storm. .. Its the only way. When tankk lines and ravens come i get fucken scared cos a pdd will make my stalkers 100 pc useless.

100 pc theoreycraft of hallucination to tank damage. Mybe a vr u charge on a pylon would help as well..

Torture

Canada221 Posts

September 01 2010 20:50 GMT

#13

I find myself posting this in every PvX thread nowadays, but Phoenix's!

Lift the tanks, own the ground army.

Go heavy chargelots, tech to templars as you expand with your Phoenix map control, success.

checo

Mexico1364 Posts

September 01 2010 21:31 GMT

#14

On September 02 2010 05:50 Torture wrote:
I find myself posting this in every PvX thread nowadays, but Phoenix's!

Lift the tanks, own the ground army.

Go heavy chargelots, tech to templars as you expand with your Phoenix map control, success.

I play terran and phoenix are a realy good counter for tanks, i have been destroy 2-3 times by a timing push with 3 Gates+Stargate with 3-4 phoenix lifting up my tanks just as mostly zealots with charge and some stalkers take out my bio...

Cloak

United States816 Posts

September 01 2010 21:32 GMT

#15

Stalker/Immortal/Sentry/Zealot/Void will beat Marine/Marauder/Tank/Viking. If Seige tanks are a part of his composition, then you should be able to keep up with macro or outexpand him. Get ahead with upgrades because of Chronoboost.

Heavy on Marines/Marauder? More Zealots.
Heavy on Tanks? More Voids/Immortals.
Heavy on Vikings? More Stalkers.

whateversclever

United States197 Posts

September 01 2010 21:57 GMT

#16

10 Tanks!?!!? .... umm... Expand. Why in God's name would you want to run your forces straight into a mass of 10 Tanks, nerfed or otherwise? That bioball is tiny, just focus on crushing that if they try and move out.

There are plenty of options that you can take, Phoenix, Templar, Immortals or whatever. But generally speaking, you only want to barrel through their forces when you have an advantage. Stop trying to win fair fights. When you are in neutral situations, you are looking to accumulate small advantages until you have a significant enough one where it's not a fair fight.

s4m222

United States272 Posts

September 01 2010 22:10 GMT

#17

also i think generally with an equal amount of units/composition terran comes out ahead... with the exception of some templar which sort of evens it out.

As protoss i find I sort of "trade" units to the terran at a higher rate then he does to me.

whateversclever

United States197 Posts

September 01 2010 22:24 GMT

#18

On September 02 2010 07:10 s4m222 wrote:
also i think generally with an equal amount of units/composition terran comes out ahead... with the exception of some templar which sort of evens it out.

As protoss i find I sort of "trade" units to the terran at a higher rate then he does to me.

Late-game Gateway >> Late-game Barracks, but Early-game Barracks >= Early-Game Gateway. that's why you really don't want to go head to head until later on.

But, Early-game Robo > Early-game Barracks. You just don't really see too much Immo/Colossus play anymore, but that's because there is a lot of 1/1/1ing Terrans out there.

ChickenLips

2912 Posts

September 01 2010 22:32 GMT

#19

Do. Not. Engage. Sieged. Tanks.

Abuse immobilty.

Use Phoenixes.

Just don't do what he wants you to.

You can also watch mTwNightend vs. MorroW on Metalopolis to see a nice siege tank base bust.

WinterNightz

United States111 Posts

September 01 2010 23:03 GMT

#20

@Yokoblue

That was indeed a fun replay to watch, but while you say you went for "a macro build", you stayed on 2 bases until they were mined out before getting a third, and your opponent had used/was using 5.

Also, in terms of just plain unit composition, if you see tanks at all, or basically anything besides pure Barracks units/banshees, focus more on immortals instead of colossi. Don't get me wrong, colossi are sweet, but vs tanks or vikings, they get eaten up in a snap. Immortals, however, can target-fire tanks and pulverize them in an instant. I haven't yet figured out if it's best to send in zealots or immortals as the front line to an army that has tanks. It probably depends on how many immortals/zealots you have. Tons of zealots would mean send those in first, then tell your immortals to pick off the tanks.

And personally, instead of going 3-gate robo into 5-gate robo, I would really just add on another robotics facility and get those immortals/colossi pumping out for 3-gate/2-robo until you finally add on a third. As soon as you saw tanks on the field, you should have thought to yourself, "o snap, I need heavier robo-tech." Granted, you only saw one tank before going up to 5 gateways, but still. only 1 robo-bay off of 2 bases seems a little bit light to me. Stargates might also work, but I've never played anything particularly reliant on stargate tech. I generally only add on stargates after I've gotten a third to help bolster the ground army.

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