Dear TL Community, My question is as follows: whats the most effective way to deal with a protoss that goes 4warpgate stalker push with blink? I've had no trouble dealing with sentry/zealot/stalker lately by only using lings into muta compo, however, recently I've been having trouble dealing with mass stalkers with NO ZEALOTS. Most these protoss make a block with 1 zealot and tech straight into 4gate stalker with blink on the way. Sometimes it comes as soon as u got ur expand up but most of the times it comes right before they take their own expo and have blink researched. The first 8 stalkers can only put pressure but once the they start reinforcing and buildin up the number it seems really difficult to use lings as they cant surround mass stalkers due to them forming a big ball and having blink. With good blink micro it feels like mass lings aren't sufficient to counter a mass stalker build and i cant defend/push properly with hydras since i usually have them in fewer amount once the push comes and i cant go counteroffense due to slow movement without creep. Once they get base 2 satured i cant keep up and seem to fall by either mass stalker/harass or collosus. Am I simply not using enough lings or would a differen approach be better? P.S Im at work atm and ill upload replays once i get home. Also, my exuses for not using textspacing, using a iphone atm.

Fiel

United States587 Posts

August 22 2010 17:23 GMT

The only early game counter to mass stalker is mass speedlings. Make sure you get the upgrade.

Chronopolis

Canada1484 Posts

August 22 2010 17:26 GMT

You will want lots of creep spread, and roach ling, with speed upgrades. Than, mass stalker really can't do much, as roaches can take a lot of shots and are cheap, as well as being pretty damn fast on creep.

JL_GG

Canada249 Posts

August 22 2010 17:26 GMT

On August 23 2010 02:23 Fiel wrote:
The only early game counter to mass stalker is mass speedlings. Make sure you get the upgrade.

and spread a lot of creep for the speed bonus too

Douillos

France3195 Posts

August 22 2010 18:00 GMT

Speedling then hydra speedling infestor( for funghal) then ultra infestor. Forget anything else.

Andtwo

United States126 Posts

August 22 2010 18:07 GMT

There's two variations of this--one being the blink before 4 gate and the other being just the standard 4 gate into more stalkers with blink. Either way, just do the standard defense with speedlings and 3-4 spines into hydras. Generally the push arrives around 40 food as you're getting your hydra den down and you should have plenty of speedlings up. Start making hydras, don't let your your lings get kited too far away from your spines is the big thing. Keep queen barfing, put guys into gas (if you forget, make more slings).

The push gets annoying on certain maps (xel'naga) when they can micro back to cliffs and up those towers, but it generally isn't bad. You transition into a standard hydra midgame and go from there. (I'd get an overseer though to watch for either temp tech/be careful of DTs)

When I lose to this push it's usually because I let all my slings chase stalkers forever instead of bringing them back to my spine crawlers.

Jettster

United States73 Posts

August 22 2010 20:25 GMT

Usually this an all in so if you stop their attack, you win. Hydra ling with a few spine crawlers for early defense is good. The hydras may pop too late so scout and adjust the # of lings accordingly. Another option is to go roach ling early on and pick off stalkers here and there until you get roach speed (spread creep).

tubby

United States2 Posts

August 22 2010 20:34 GMT

I think your best bet is making lots of speedlings and apply early pressure. Its hard on a protoss player's economy to go 4-gate stalkers, adding blink to that would be very difficult. If you put on early pressure with lings (which is also the counter to simple 4-gate) then he will have to abandon blink and balance out, or you will roll over him while he's trying to tech to blink with 4-gate.

CitizenTrust

United States16 Posts

August 22 2010 20:35 GMT

is this considering a FE for the zerg? i am having such a tough time defending big 1 base pushes from toss any time i try to FE. should i not be expanding at or before 20 food? I can't figure out how to make it work, but no expo means pressure from them while they expand. 600ish diamond BTW

koOma

Norway462 Posts

August 22 2010 20:38 GMT

#10

speedlings in general rape stalkers (yes even blink stalkers)

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

August 22 2010 20:41 GMT

#11

speedlings do fine and if he somehow gets a giant ball with blink as well you should just wonder where your hydra's are.
Spine crawlers are pretty efficient against stalkers as well should you be having problems early on in defending a expo or whatever.

BlasiuS

United States2405 Posts

August 22 2010 20:45 GMT

#12

It depends on the map.

On maps where you can defend with spine crawlers, use those until you can get muta out. Muta will contain him and let you get a 3rd up.

On maps where you can't use crawlers, your best bet is quick hydras, and defend with hydra/ling.

KeKeZergRush

United States116 Posts

August 22 2010 20:47 GMT

#13

I think your problem is scouting them. If you don't scout them early enough, then you'll lose. Usually you need to start pumping pure ling at about 28 unit count, and then switch to hydras.

EssayReader

Korea (South)127 Posts

August 22 2010 21:54 GMT

#14

I have always preferred Hydralisks.

Stalkers deal less damage per second than Hydralisks, and if they fought them head on, they would lose. Which is why Stalkers have Blink in the first place, to get away from these situations.

An additional problem to mass Stalkers is also quite a couple of Zealots. For this I would recommend Infestors. Zerglings aren't useful because they die too fast. Roaches will get split up from the Hydralisks because of possible Forcefields from Sentries.

On the other hand, Infestors are very useful. They will provide a "forcefield" with 2 Infested Terrans, which is essentially the same length as a Protoss Sentry Forcefield. They can also Fungal Growth Zealots but I prefer Infested Terrans since they're program-wise overpowered (slightly).

TheBB

Switzerland5133 Posts

August 22 2010 22:25 GMT

#15

Yeah, hydra/ling should demolish stalkers. Remember to upgrade.

On August 23 2010 06:54 EssayReader wrote:
An additional problem to mass Stalkers is also quite a couple of Zealots.

Quite a couple. :D