• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:56
CEST 01:56
KST 08:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting2[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent6Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)67Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) IP For new Brazil servers for NA Players TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Any rep analyzer that shows resources situation? BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent I'm making videos again
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal A [ASL20] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Sex and weight loss Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 818 users

[PvX] Phoenix harrass into Blink and +2 Carriers - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
BOOWOO
Profile Joined March 2010
United States83 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 18:45:28
August 22 2010 18:37 GMT
#41
On August 22 2010 14:23 Chiburi wrote:
I like the build and I hope that it can become a viable option for protoss. One big issue I see is that you aren't getting any detection. How would this build fare against a cloaked banshee or dt rush? Can you see it coming fast enough with your phoenix to throw down a forge or robo? Against protoss you would definitely want to use another build if you scouted a possible 4 warpgate, but your probe scout should see that before you commit to anything.



Yea, early scouting is meant to scout the early aggression, while scouting with the first Phoenix will alert you if you need detection.

I've learned that lesson in my ladder sessions when I slacked on scouting and lost to both DT and cloaked Banshees.

The new goal is to be relatively flexible and safe early, as opposed to trying to rush Carriers. I was too hellbent on getting the Carriers out before and was dying too much. This is why I switched to two Gates before Stargate, where as before I was rushing Stargate.

As long as you scout actively, you should be able to prepare for just about anything.
BOOWOO
Profile Joined March 2010
United States83 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 19:04:59
August 22 2010 19:03 GMT
#42
On August 22 2010 14:23 NiTrOuS wrote:
I think that this build has a few weaknesses. First, I think that a good bio drop will be good against this. Another thing is 4 turrets at a terrans mineral line pretty much negates your pheonix harassment. Finally, if they get an early expand you are economically behind.


Yea, drops could be problematic. But since I don't use my ground army for any aggression, but instead use it to defend my ramp, I may be able to react quick enough for the drop.

And 4 Turrets would be awesome, if I could get any damage done with them before that. 400 wasted minerals for them, slowing them down considerably and giving me a chance to expand. I can just pull my Phoenix back to support my ground army at that point, while occasionally poking back in with them to scout.

Exyia
Profile Joined July 2010
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 21:32:43
August 22 2010 21:31 GMT
#43
750ish diamond protoss here, I've been working on my own phoenix -> carrier build myself, really surprised someone else is too (and posted it on TL)

I haven't tried this in PvP, because against a good player I just don't think you can live long enough to get a good number of carriers. PvT and PvZ however, I've given up on this build. It just isn't very safe or stable compared to a Robo opening. I still love to phoenix opening depending on map, but a carrier followup just isn't a very safe option. Major problems are

1 - Finding the safe transition point to carriers. I've been put up with so much pressure with such large bio armies, and Carriers don't handle them well, especially when you only have one or two ready. I've found that going HT before Carrier tech helps, but I haven't experimented much and I think the HT won the game more than the Carriers in those situations

2 - Although you can micro the carriers away from ground units, they will tear through interceptors (marines, hydras). This eats into your minerals and leaves your ground army with no effective tech to deal with the large ranged army (either high amounts of hydra or marines melt gateway units). Against terran specifically, good players move their starport too far into the mainland that I can't reach it. He then builds up a large number of vikings and they destroy the carriers faster than the counters can kill them (the range on vikings and slow speed of carriers just destroys carriers), then you're left with just gateway units. The sort of same problem comes with PvZ, but I've simply lost to mass hydra

As much as I want a Carrier build/transition to work, it just doesn't seem too viable. It isn't a safe transition because of the timing and lack of aoe damage - something almost necessary with the strength of bio-balls and roach/hydra against gateway units.

edit - I wish I had saved my replays, but I had given up on this build in such frustration that I didn't save them. Again, it just isn't a safe build, I would almost call it an all-in

Feel free to keep trying though, but just my input here. I've caught a few players off-guard with this transition, but good players were able to handle it. Once my carriers were down it wasn't even a close battle with no other tech to support my gateway units
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft411
SpeCial 132
Nathanias 115
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14452
Artosis 617
Backho 116
NaDa 11
Super Smash Bros
PPMD84
Other Games
summit1g6232
Grubby2806
shahzam648
C9.Mang0334
Skadoodle211
Maynarde132
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick739
BasetradeTV25
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta76
• Hupsaiya 50
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra746
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4m
Afreeca Starleague
10h 4m
Soma vs Bisu
OSC
14h 4m
OSC
18h 4m
MaxPax vs Gerald
Solar vs Krystianer
PAPI vs Lemon
Ryung vs Moja
Nice vs NightPhoenix
Cham vs TBD
MaNa vs TriGGeR
PiGosaur Monday
1d
OSC
1d 23h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Safe House 2
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Safe House 2
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.