EPT[G] kcdc's PvT FE - Page 48
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Minigun
619 Posts
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
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ssregitoss
Turkey241 Posts
On October 26 2010 06:38 Knickknack wrote: Well I figured someone would say nexgenius was just saving them for collosus, but take a closer look at game3 vs select. Though feel free to point out other games where he might have done better. So he gets up to 100x2 and stays there for 2min or so. Then starts spending cb on only 1nexus then uses other nexus when first runs out. Ends up with 100/25nrg pretty soon later on still. The fact is it is poor use of cb and a poor build plan. I see huk run into this problem sometimes as well. Typically what happens is they 4gate, and if they cb probes then they have less mins to keep up their 4gate. And they don't need to cb 4gate since they are making use of its production already. The answer is already shown in this thread...less gates and use cb on gates or probes depending then on tech later on. but the stiuation here is jump to cost effective massive killing units like collos so fast.you know how gate way unit dies easy to mmm balls. | ||
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:40 ssregitoss wrote: What i figure out for nexgenius he only 3 times crono his nexus then all on warp gates and robo.he never rush for macro probes like all you did.terran is OP in early game.so nexgenius delays this with not macring his probes and he gets 4 collo in 140 sec.then all game he goes 4 gate one robo and all crono for collos.then he adds citidel and forge for upgrates.he never rushed for corono probes like all you did.i tried it myself today and win all my vs terran games.if i crono for probes i will have 4 less unit and 2 delayed collo.45 probes is enough to make 5 collo. so eco is not important the fact is to get 4 collo in 140 second. Yes, Garimto here is correct.  The first three chrono boosts go to the Nexus as normal, then the first Gateway units, then Colossus. You're getting a fast expansion; you don't need to chrono probes to have good economy. What you do need is defence.As for Genius' build, I don't think I'd personally skip the first Zealot for a slightly earlier expand. I can see why Genius might want to skip it, but I'm not that good. That Zealot is good at poking, and it helps me keep my expansion alive. Hmm. It does save up chrono boost energy for the upcoming stalkers/sentries, though, and there's a chrono break in there with the normal build. Maybe it's possible to play catch-up. Sounds like there should be something there, but I'll need to check the timing. I'll miss the early Zealot, too. Welp. Gonna go see how it lines up. Yay, replays. | ||
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Gr4ndmasterSexy
Germany27 Posts
Did anyone ever beat this while fast expanding? so add replay plz, cause i really see no way. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On October 26 2010 14:00 Gr4ndmasterSexy wrote: did anyone ever defend a marine/banshee/raven push while playing this build? currently for me its impossible, cause you cant really scout it in time, and i see no way to defend it. Did anyone ever beat this while fast expanding? so add replay plz, cause i really see no way. The only way is if you go for collossi very early. Get as many sentries as you can afford to push the marines back; also sentries can deal with PDD if your opponent places it badly | ||
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Gr4ndmasterSexy
Germany27 Posts
and i really dont see an option there. its hard enough to handle a early marauder/marine push while expanding, but i found it possible. but this push seems impossible to defend for me. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On October 26 2010 14:23 Gr4ndmasterSexy wrote: i really dont think that its possible to get collossi out before he comes to push you, while you fast expand. and even if its possible, you will have so damn low unit count, that he will beat you with everything else. the thing is you cant really scout it before its too late, so you need to do a build which can defend an early maurader/marine push+it can hold a marine/raven/banshee push. and i really dont see an option there. its hard enough to handle a early marauder/marine push while expanding, but i found it possible. but this push seems impossible to defend for me. If only I weren't writing an essay I'd dig around for some replays where I manage to hold it, although it's definitely the thing I lose to most. It's, as you said, extremely difficult to have a large army after expanding. If kcdc hasn't given a reply (and I don't forget to come back to this thread), I'll try tomorrow night to look for one. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On October 23 2010 02:23 Minigun wrote: There is a push I can't hold, and that's a pure scv, raven 6+ tanks, scv all in, the time it comes is when you no longer have the option of giving up your nat. I've played him 3-4 times and I just can't beat it, the scvs provide too good of a meatshield, and tanks just rip your meatshields apart. Saskuke does it if you've ever played him. That is a realllllllllllllllllly old replay. I never 12 gate or throw down 3x more gates after the expansion, it's just not optimal. Dude, wtf are you supposed to do about a fast tank rush? I just faced someone who did it to me twice and lost both times. The guy didn't even bring scvs. | ||
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ssregitoss
Turkey241 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On October 26 2010 06:38 Knickknack wrote: So he gets up to 100x2 and stays there for 2min or so. Then starts spending cb on only 1nexus then uses other nexus when first runs out. Ends up with 100/25nrg pretty soon later on still. well, this is owed to the fact, if you have both (all) nexi on one hotkey, pressing this hotkey and selecting chrono-boost will always use the chrono-boost from the first nexus; very annoying and almost impossible to avoid lategame because you don't have time to go and select (click) a nexus individually - so it's not intentional that he uses only one nexus and uses the 2nd when the first is out of energy On October 26 2010 22:12 ssregitoss wrote: i saw in gsl sanzenith made cannons to defand. yeah, sanzenith sure loves his cannons.... | ||
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bobcat
United States488 Posts
On October 26 2010 22:56 sleepingdog wrote: well, this is owed to the fact, if you have both (all) nexi on one hotkey, pressing this hotkey and selecting chrono-boost will always use the chrono-boost from the first nexus; very annoying and almost impossible to avoid lategame because you don't have time to go and select (click) a nexus individually - so it's not intentional that he uses only one nexus and uses the 2nd when the first is out of energy This can be avoided by using CB as it becomes available. Usually better than letting 8 of them go unused for that long. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On October 26 2010 14:00 Gr4ndmasterSexy wrote: did anyone ever defend a marine/banshee/raven push while playing this build? currently for me its impossible, cause you cant really scout it in time, and i see no way to defend it. Did anyone ever beat this while fast expanding? so add replay plz, cause i really see no way. Yes, Minigun has posted a couple. He's posted one against iEchoic and 2 against Madison (1 winning, 1 losing). | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-160850.jpg) | ||
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Noak3
United States236 Posts
On October 27 2010 05:48 kcdc wrote: Here's a game against a tank-raven-banshee all-in. I scouted for an expo around when you'd see it in a standard build, and when there was nothing to see, I assumed he was going for a late all-in. I cut probes, massed zealots, and tried to rush for charge (though it didn't finish quite in time). I've been losing to all-ins like these lately, so I thought I'd post this replay. Remember, if you don't see them w/ an expo up on time, all you have to do to win is stay alive. Cut probes, stop teching, and pump units as quickly as possible. What do you look for when you're scouting for that push? Fast double gas means 1/1/1, but how do you figure out that it's that specific push instead of one of the other strategies that people going 1/1/1 do? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On October 28 2010 08:52 Noak3 wrote: What do you look for when you're scouting for that push? Fast double gas means 1/1/1, but how do you figure out that it's that specific push instead of one of the other strategies that people going 1/1/1 do? Does it matter? It's going to be marines + something. It could be banshees, ravens, tanks or thors, but what you need in any of those cases is LOTS of zealots, a couple sentries for guardian shield, and just enough stalkers to defend any leftover banshees. | ||
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SaintsTheMetal
United States45 Posts
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Vlare
748 Posts
On August 10 2010 23:05 Inkarnate wrote: I can't see this doing well against any kind of Barracks before supply reaper build, but may fair decently well against a meching terran or one that is FEing himself. Good thing barracks before supply isn't a worry | ||
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RisingTide
Australia769 Posts
On October 28 2010 15:59 Vlare wrote: Good thing barracks before supply isn't a worry Except, he wrote that in August, when, you know, it was.  | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
2 zealots chrono'd take 51 secs, almost exactly the time it takes to make a cybercore. You do need one extra chrono so you can only chrono your nexus twice but that's no big deal. It just seems to me scouting a terran is only useful for determining their position and to probe harass a bit. Probe harass is ok but costs you more then them if you send a probe early only for that reason and for any other information I generally poke their front anyway. The important information, do they go techlab, reactor and/or factory can usually just as easily be done with a zealot instead of a probe. (also you tend to lose the probe if you want to determine what they do after the first rine, whereas a zealot just pokes a bit and backs off). The extra zealot also allows for much better pressure at tech builds as you will be arriving with 2 zealots by the time you normally have 1 if you skip scouting. | ||
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