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On July 23 2010 18:59 Neuuubeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build. Well, how about you stop listening to day9?? Jeezuz, everyone in this thread is quoting day9 as if he is the god of starcraft 2 strategy and tactics.. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO COUNTER HIS DAMN UNITS??? Thats what zerg is all about, reaction to his actions. Yeah sure, if you dont stay on your toes, the enemy can abuse that. But so can you, bluffs in sc2 can be effective. Stick to your strategy (As day9 obviously teaches you) and see how far that gets you. Also, sorry to say this, but why the hell dont you drop 1 spore at each base??? You will be wanting that evo chamber in the long run anyhow.. Getting 20000 queens is hardly mineral efficient and ends up delaying your evolution.. But then again, thats what day9 said to do. Hm, he also said to abuse that amazing mobility of Zerg. OH SNAP, NO SUCH THING Start thinking on your own please? If you played all the time you spent watching his damn commentaries, you mightve developed some strategies yourself. PS. Wheres your scouting anyhow? Getting 5 queens cause afraid of air, but getting rolled by a 4gate push? lolo? PS2 - are people in diamond seriously using void rays on NA server? On EU I havent seen those past gold oO
I actually love to watch day9 and listen to his analysis, though you have to take it with a grain of salt and whatever you might believe there are still exception so don't take it as if it's carved in stone.
And yeah there are some toss who does for void ray rush in NA, though i got to say its pretty stupid though, since they are easily defend able.
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Full respect to Day 9, he's epic and I watch most of this work.
At the same time it's funny to see people quote the scripture of day 9 akin to some god. Day9 says this, no no you didn't listen to everything day9 said only took some out of context, day9 really ment this...
 Day9 you should be proud.
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NVM, how can I delete my post in here...
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1 spore is not enough to deal with void rays...
Not to mention that spores are kinda expensive... 75 for evo chamber (which yes, you'll get eventually anyways) and then 125 per spore (drone+75). A queen is only 25 more than that, can transfuse, and is mobile all of the time. Only downside is that a Queen takes 2 supply. Queens are pretty damn mineral efficient, especially when you take into account transfusion and creep tumor.
Honestly though, you just need to scout. If you don't want to "have to" make another queen, scout him around the 4 min 30 seconds mark and see if it looks like he's going void rays. If he's walled off, or if you suspect that he proxied it somewhere else, you'll just have to make the judgement to make an extra queen yourself. Really though, they're worth every penny.
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On July 23 2010 18:59 Neuuubeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 09:42 Bio wrote:
And I don't want to be forced to make units I don't want to just because my opponent. That is the reason most zerg die quickly. The opponent transitions. LIke in TvP where toss will go void rays to get them to make marines, and then will transition into a marine... killing.... unit... like ummm.... speedlots I guess, but as day9 teaches us we should not change our builds to account for things that may happen, but to just happily continue on with our build. Well, how about you stop listening to day9?? Jeezuz, everyone in this thread is quoting day9 as if he is the god of starcraft 2 strategy and tactics.. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO COUNTER HIS DAMN UNITS??? Thats what zerg is all about, reaction to his actions. Yeah sure, if you dont stay on your toes, the enemy can abuse that. But so can you, bluffs in sc2 can be effective. Stick to your strategy (As day9 obviously teaches you) and see how far that gets you. Also, sorry to say this, but why the hell dont you drop 1 spore at each base??? You will be wanting that evo chamber in the long run anyhow.. Getting 20000 queens is hardly mineral efficient and ends up delaying your evolution.. But then again, thats what day9 said to do. Hm, he also said to abuse that amazing mobility of Zerg. OH SNAP, NO SUCH THING Start thinking on your own please? If you played all the time you spent watching his damn commentaries, you mightve developed some strategies yourself. PS. Wheres your scouting anyhow? Getting 5 queens cause afraid of air, but getting rolled by a 4gate push? lolo? PS2 - are people in diamond seriously using void rays on NA server? On EU I havent seen those past gold oO
relax dude. your talking to the wrong person.
and void rays are still viable. theyre powerful if you dont let em die.
and the point of this thread was just to find out a good tosses void ray timng, he never said WHAT his counter would be, its everybody else thats talking about queens sir.
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Im quite relaxed, I find it really weird when people blindly follow advice from some commentator without trying things on their own  Guess he didnt word his thought out properly either, but oh well, this is tha internetz, arguing/discussing is naturally impaired
Still feel more than 1 queen early on tends to be a waste, but thats for everybody to decide on their own . I'll go back to lurking, looking ashamed
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Expand and then tech directly to hydralisk. Get 3 queens, or more if you find out your opponent is rushing air. I though that was standard ZvP.
Day9 always says not to abandon your build, but that doesn't mean never adjusting to the opponent's play. Build =/= Build Order.
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I could get a void out just before the 5 minute mark. I'm a high gold level player/low plat.
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On July 24 2010 06:16 Arnu wrote:
I could get a void out just before the 5 minute mark. I'm a high gold level player/low plat.
by doing so, you forgo your standard build and would otherwise be killed. were talking about feasible builds that would actually pose a threat. doing a sub five minute VR means that you left out a crucial component of survival such as not getting ground units to defend or teching straight to VRs.
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Saying "I don't want Queens because I want T2 to take care of VR rushes" is a lot like a P player saying "I don't want Zealots against speedlings because I want to tech into Colossi to deal with mass speedling rush". You can't have what you want and you need to adapt your build.
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On July 24 2010 03:51 Neuuubeh wrote:Im quite relaxed, I find it really weird when people blindly follow advice from some commentator without trying things on their own Guess he didnt word his thought out properly either, but oh well, this is tha internetz, arguing/discussing is naturally impaired Still feel more than 1 queen early on tends to be a waste, but thats for everybody to decide on their own . I'll go back to lurking, looking ashamed
Hilarious how you think you can somehow magically counter VRs without Queens and without any T2 units. What are you gonna do, make spore crawlers over your entire base(s)?
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If you never change your plan in the heat of the moment, you're not learning anything.
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I tried it 3 times and the fastest I could get it in the opponents base with still producing probes was around 5:40 game time.
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EPT
