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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
edit: then again this IS just theoryocrafting. edit2: to poster below me,(Mr.LOL) protoss is in no way the easiest race, try playing as protoss versus a 5-6 rax all-in attack off of 1 base and then tell me what u think of protoss. Protoss is in no way the famed 1a2a3a. It takes a lot of skill to play it and u have to time force fields perfectly and don't even get me started on PvZ! | ||
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Mr_LOL
Israel21 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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LumberJack
United States3355 Posts
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Mr_LOL
Israel21 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
edit:fixed grammar. edit2: taken straight out of the guidelines, please follow them. - Nothing is imba. If you found something imba, it's most likely not. Find a counter. This is no place for balance discussion. - Everybody knows the game is just in beta, you don't need to point that out. - B.net league placements aren't that relevant. Your Platinum spot doesn't mean anything. - If you have not played the beta, be careful about what you say edit3: If I have somehow misunderstood the guidelines some how myself(as I have done in the past  ) then I am deeply sorry. | ||
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
Some critical flaws in Huk's response was that his Stalkers were not close enough to the probes to draw in all of the zealots, probably because Huk's building layout which made it very difficult for him to micro close to his nexus. This made it so much easier for Tester to kill probes while keeping Huk's Stalkers busy. | ||
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
On July 19 2010 12:13 kcdc wrote: Just chronoboost your first stalker and focus the probe. lol straightfoward, easy, and finishes the job right =D | ||
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redwingxviii
United States101 Posts
brainstorming: 1) simply threaten his base by building a pylon there - perhaps this forces him to warp into his own base, buying some extra time 2) can anything be done with cannons? offensive or defensive? i don't think this idea too much but figured it was worth discussing. 3) anything else? | ||
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Canada505 Posts
On July 22 2010 22:58 redwingxviii wrote: i don't think "just chronoboosting your first stalker and killing the probe" will necessarily work. i'm wondering if there is a way to defend and/or put pressure back on the "rusher" as a way to stop this. of course one could do the "same" build which is probably the safest. brainstorming: 1) simply threaten his base by building a pylon there - perhaps this forces him to warp into his own base, buying some extra time 2) can anything be done with cannons? offensive or defensive? i don't think this idea too much but figured it was worth discussing. 3) anything else? I think 1-2 chronoboosted zealots sent straight to his mineral lines would either win you the game or prevent/delay him from putting down a 4th gateway. Plexa doesn't agree and he may be right but I can't know for sure until in a few days. There's a huge window where this build is defenseless. Especially after putting down the 4 gateways: you have no money, no units, no units in production, 1 finished gateway, no warp, and you need a pylon. Any aggression at that point sounds deadly. | ||
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redwingxviii
United States101 Posts
i agree that it could prevent or delay, but i don't think it will win the game for you (which is fine - the main goal is to delay and get to mid-game) for now though, when i play PvP, i think there's too little downside to starting off with a 4 gate mindset and adjusting based on scouting. unless i'm wrong, i'm thinking i can essentially "mirror" the korean warp gate build and have enough to defend against it, and then hopefully kill some pylons and be a little bit ahead. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
Then I tried it on my friend who after seeing I had zero to low troops in my base proceeded to proxy cannon my base, and then second time went two gate and had 2 zealots in my base killing my probes. | ||
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gREIFOCs
Argentina208 Posts
On July 20 2010 00:58 ToxNub wrote: I've had 3 games in the past week where we both just ran out of minerals because neither could expand. Just complete stalemates. I think you are making plenty of mistakes if this is happening to you often. If you are playing a "mirror match" in every sense of the word, then just out upgrade him. That's the key for this kind of retarded games, cut a prove and a sentry, and later you'll be on top. Also, a early forge shuts down the army split early harrass. With a few cannons, If they wanna break, they have to commit their units to it, and just by forcing his army to stick together you gain a lot in a defensive situation. Also, I started experimenting with other types of sim cityes that allow you to hide tech, while protecting the mineral line and even "walling it in" (actually you just force a really large surround trough your army). This small details, really turn things in your favor in dorky "we are doing the freakking same" games, even if the oposite player has more apm. | ||
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
If they get out a fast Stalker, you have to decide if you want to continue with the proxy-pylon strat, plop down a bunch of pylons ASAP (costing you a lot of minerals at a critical juncture, when your own Warp-Gate tech just started and you need to start building more Gateways soon) and hope they don't all die before your Warp Gates are ready to roll, or just give up and go home. You aren't going to have Warp Gate tech and Warp Gates ready LONG before their Stalker is out. Your Probe is pretty much fucked within the next 20 seconds and you've got another two minutes before you're ready to go. And if they kill all your Pylons with just a couple of Zealots? Well you're down a buttload of minerals and now they know a 4-gate push is coming to their front-door and can ruin your day with simple Force Fields. How many Protoss get out fast Stalkers? Well, if their build isn't 2-Gate aggression, which is going to rape this build on most maps to begin with, its a fast Stalker, which will easily kill your Probe and can deny any others from getting inside. I assert that this strat is a lot harder and riskier to pull off than the majority are claiming. | ||
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Canada505 Posts
On July 23 2010 01:41 Barrin wrote: I know not everyone likes to wall off their front but... unless I am just some kind of noob... why dont you 2pylon+gateway+zealot block your ramp? Pretty sure you can do this before they get to you. Who is they? This is a warping rush. The scouting probe is what gets to you and lays down pylons as your first stalker comes out. If you manage to kill the scout before it lays down pylons then you're in great shape anyway wall-in or not. | ||
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Canada505 Posts
On July 23 2010 01:42 Bibdy wrote: How many people have tried this strat and succeeded with it? Its tough to pull off and not to mention, a big risk. I really don't think people understand how much of a gamble this is. You aren't going to have Warp Gate tech and Warp Gates ready LONG before their Stalker is out. Your Probe is pretty much fucked within the next 20 seconds and you've got another two minutes before you're ready to go. I do this every single PvP unless I scout a 2-gate. I'm not a very good multitasker so the few times I lose is because my probe got stuck somewhere or I didn't start the pylons early enough. I also now put a pylon outside before going in. If my probe dies it just becomes a common 4-gate rush. I think you're underestimating how long it takes for a zealot and stalker or 2 zealots to kill 4 pylons. My PvP win rate is much higher than the other two. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On July 23 2010 01:55 Back wrote: I do this every single PvP unless I scout a 2-gate. I'm not a very good multitasker so the few times I lose is because my probe got stuck somewhere or I didn't start the pylons early enough. I also now put a pylon outside before going in. If my probe dies it just becomes a common 4-gate rush. I think you're underestimating how long it takes for a zealot and stalker or 2 zealots to kill 4 pylons. My PvP win rate is much higher than the other two. I've been trying it out myself, too, ever since I got caught by it and its really not that difficult to kill the things. It takes one Zealot about 33 seconds to kill a Pylon. 200 shield = 12.5 attacks at full damage 200 health = 13.5 attacks at -1 damage (1 armour) They attack every 1.2 seconds, so that's 27*1.2 = 32.4 seconds for just a Zealot alone. You can also pull some Probes and you've got the Stalker once it nails the Probe. Normally you've got about two full minutes to kill the Pylons, but if they felt the need to drop FOUR at once, you've got a huge lead on his unit count. Its at that moment they need to start placing down Gateways as well, in order for their 65 second build time to coincide with the completion of Chrono-boosted Warp Gate tech. Spending so many minerals at that point sets you back enormously. And even if you just have two minutes? Chrono Boost out two Zealots when they start going down and kill the Pylons. Maybe pull a few Probes. That's how my attempts get thwarted all the time. Now I just don't bother. I just try to sneak in a single pylon somewhere and hope they don't spot it. Smaller investment, much less risk and occassionally rapes someone in the face. | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
On July 23 2010 02:05 Bibdy wrote: Normally you've got about two full minutes to kill the Pylons, but if they felt the need to drop FOUR at once, you've got a huge lead on his unit count. Its at that moment they need to start placing down Gateways as well, in order for their 65 second build time to coincide with the completion of Chrono-boosted Warp Gate tech. Spending so many minerals at that point sets you back enormously. You can simply cancel pylons which going to be destroyed right before and lose just 25 Minerals per Pylon. | ||
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