PvP, back to early proxy pylons korean style? - Page 2

On July 19 2010 12:01 youngminii wrote:
I think PvP is stupid in general. I'm 400~ ELO Diamond and I still win the majority of my PvP games by either going 4 gate Stalkers (with a little variation in the standard BO to get a one-up on Stalkers) on maps without tight ramps/chokes or 2 gate Robo on maps with tight ramps (reasoning behind this is that I pump out Sentries to spam FF on my ramp while I pump out enough Immortals to hard counter his Stalkers with the support of my Sentries/Stalkers/Probes (a few, if need be).

I actually had a game where my opponent and I did the exact same thing. It was a literal mirror match on LT - 2 gate Robo with Sentries to wall off. He actually made an Observer which should have given me the upper hand but unfortunately I forgot about one Immortal and left it in my base for around 5-10 minutes. Anyway, what ended up happening was we both engaged in the middle, we both had a few Immortals with some excellent FFs pretty much obliterating each other's Immortals (and funnily enough, Sentries). We both brought a Probe and made proxy pylons in the middle of the map, a bit closer to their base (cross position). We then spammed 4 gate warp ins with the occasional Immortal when our money let us. We then incorporated Zealots to kill each other's Immortals and with sufficient micro, the Immortals would die but so would the Zealots. It literally became a back and forth stalemate situation where neither player could expand nor switch tech lest he be overrun. The end conclusion? He dropped. Yes, I know, how anticlimactic.

Long story short: PvP is stupid. It either becomes 4 gate rush with the slight variation of Robo. Blink Stalkers prevent any creative sort of play involving static D and expanding is just not an option. As much as I love blink, it needs serious re-working.

Oh and my little variation is (if I'm doing 4 gate and not 2 gate Robo) to skip the first gas and use the minerals to build a second Gateway while Core is building. Then pump out Stalkers and harass (maybe get a free kill or two), delay warp gate by a tiny bit to get your Stalkers out and the second gas up around/a little before you put down the next two Gates. You might have to skimp on the probe production just a little but at most you'll be behind by 2 probes which you can catch up on by CB'ing your probes/Stalkers. Since your opponent will most likely be boosting his warp gate, you can catch up on probes and overrun his Stalker count. The logic behind this is that warp gate doesn't actually accelerate your Stalker production, it essentially lets you skip a production cycle regardless of when it's finished but that shouldn't matter since you have a few extra Stalkers anyway.

On July 20 2010 01:28 cauchy.riemann wrote:
Hmm i cant watch the replays of Plexa, any other replays? Would be much appreciated

On July 20 2010 21:45 ab0x wrote:
I usually go either blinkstalkers or 3g + robo in PvP.

With 3 gates + twilight council you should be able to fend off a 4g push just fine and with the 3g robo some immortals will do the job.

With blinkstalkers, I add a robo eventually for observers. If im aggressive (attacking with my first one or two stalkers even) i often win early. Since the TC is already up, one can go over to charge zlots. This is the tactic White-ra uses in PvP, watch Day[9] daily 147 (i believe).

On July 20 2010 21:49 Plexa wrote:

Did you even read the thread? Or just blindly charge on through without any care for the discussion what so ever? This is about a 4gate korean style warpgate rush not a 4gate push.

On July 20 2010 22:16 Serenitylol wrote:
What is the exact build order for this right up until 4 warps are done same time.. Just so i can maybe practice it..?

On July 20 2010 22:40 Plexa wrote:
Unlike a normal protoss build, you're not using chrono unless I say so
9 pylon
10 gate, scout with probe
10 probe+chrono
13 gas
15 core (gas should finish about now, add three probes to it, once you have 50 gas cut probes - start taking them off at 44 gas)
Keep probing to 18
When cycore is done start warpgate immediately and continuously chrono it (you will be able to continuously chrono despite having used one chrono earlier)
18 - gate gate gate
When warpgate tech is 75% complete start warping in pylons in his main (ideally 3-4 spread out, players tend to do it near mineral lines)

Given that you've continuously chrono'd the warpgate everything will finish at pretty much the same time. Then just make warpgates and warp in zealots for an easy victory

On July 19 2010 22:20 Plexa wrote:

EDIT: watched Tozar game and I think it demonstrates why this build is so good . Firstly, the initial pylons were poorly positioned making his initial zealots attack from an inferior position. Better positioned they could have done a lot more damage imo. Secondly, Tozar was able to kill a significant number of probes and indeed came out ahead after the initial exchange. Despite defending the 4warpgate, his opponent was still behind. And that really is the power of the build.

On July 20 2010 22:40 Plexa wrote:
Unlike a normal protoss build, you're not using chrono unless I say so
9 pylon
10 gate, scout with probe
10 probe+chrono
13 gas
15 core (gas should finish about now, add three probes to it, once you have 50 gas cut probes - start taking them off at 44 gas)
Keep probing to 18
When cycore is done start warpgate immediately and continuously chrono it (you will be able to continuously chrono despite having used one chrono earlier)
18 - gate gate gate
When warpgate tech is 75% complete start warping in pylons in his main (ideally 3-4 spread out, players tend to do it near mineral lines)

Given that you've continuously chrono'd the warpgate everything will finish at pretty much the same time. Then just make warpgates and warp in zealots for an easy victory