I just played a PvP where my opponent went 3gate charge and I went for 4gate stalkers. It was on blistering sands and I proxied his rocks but he saw me and tried to kill my 10 stalkers with 6 chargealots and a stalkers. he swore that chargealots beat stalkers but that his zealots were getting stuck. I watched the replay and I didn't really see them getting stuck (except when he tried to run them through his simcity). He seemed quite good, he actually managed to take down a pylon with his initial zealot and a probe (the pylon was already at 50% because I let his initial probe hammer on it for too long, and he only managed to kill it by 1 hit).

Anyhow is mass chargealtos viable against stalkers? I know it's possible against stalker/fast immortal but it doesn't work against 4gate stalker, does it?

57 Corvette

Canada5941 Posts

July 16 2010 02:42 GMT

Well. 1 on 1 even an uncharged zealot can beat the stalker at a-move. Assuming there is some micro going on, yes a stalker can kite the zealot. When it is charged however it is alot harder to kite zealots unless you can blink up a cliff (considering by this point you would have blink). Depending on where the armies engage and the amound of chargelots, it could be effective. Small, cliffed area, not very effective. Wide open area, effective.
Also, if you have sentries along with your stalkers you can just wall off your stalkers and attack without being able to attack back. Wall them next to a cliff, when the FFs fade away, blink up.

Then again, what do i know, im only in bronze.

Netherlands12045 Posts

July 16 2010 02:49 GMT

its quite depends on number of stalker. as >10, stalker can create a wall at small ramp so zealots cant surround stalkers. also how the sentries FF stuff. remember it takes time to get charge lots out so you will be VERY vulnerable if you going that way. also sentries can trap zealots no problem so stalker mostly is better.

altairian

United States105 Posts

July 16 2010 02:52 GMT

I think the problem is he had 6 zealots against 10 stalkers. Where were the sentries? How was his zealot count so low? I haven't tried it myself, but I can definitely see chargelot/sentry beating mass stalker.

I disagree that you're vulnerable early game going chargelots. You can still make zealots before you have charge, and you can use extra gas on sentries to forcefield your ramp and prevent stuff from running away. Sure naked zealots against even a single stalker will lose pretty horribly, but why would you ever not make sentries early game?

RodrigoX

United States645 Posts

July 16 2010 02:56 GMT

I mean really anything can beat anything if there are enough and are microed right. I mean its basically impossible to say this always beats that in this game especially when you are talking strategy.

I mean I assume that leg speed if you use your gas right and micro well and have a good expansion timing, there is no reason for it not to be viable. But there could be a lot of subtleties and a lot of serious micro and multitasking to make it viable.

Ndugu

United States1078 Posts

July 16 2010 03:00 GMT

If you can fight on favorable terms Zealots slaughter almost everything.

Favorable terms being where someone cant kite you. I've had good luck with people getting trapped on their own buildings :D :D :D

Sentries cancel this out a bit.

Kime

United States17 Posts

July 16 2010 03:06 GMT

It depends on the tactical situation. If the stalkers can't get away from the chargelots, the chargelots will eat them alive.

T0fuuu

Australia2275 Posts

July 16 2010 03:21 GMT

its only zealots. He should have really been saving some of the the gas for robo and immortals. I definately wouldnt want to play vs 4 gate with only zralots. I do use zealots sentry early on though to scare stalkers away until charge is done but i always get a few stalkers as well

LeoTheLion

China958 Posts

July 16 2010 03:28 GMT

disguised brag post?

6 zealots aren't gonna beat 10 stalkers with a little micro

happyness

United States2400 Posts

July 16 2010 03:29 GMT

#10

First off, chargelots are good in really big numbers in PvP, you can't do much with only 6, and shoudlnt expect 6 chargelots and a stalker to beat 10 stalkers. Thats 725/50 resources vs 1250/500. Of course your army would win.

Secondly, to say that "chargelots beat stalkers" is a flawed way of thinking. It's not so simple. This is what I find:

2 zealots > 2 stalkers - Theoretically the stalkers can kite zealots forever, but in small numbers it takes FOREVER to kill off zealots like that and some pretty intense micro that will eat into your macro

10 zealots < 10 stalkers - As long as you have room to kite, it's not too hard to micro

10 chargelots > 10 stalkers - Stalkers can no longer kite. They can't even run away.

10 chargelots ? 10 blink stalkers - Probably go with chargelots still, but blink makes it so the stalkers can at least retreat, and with really good micro they might be able to beat the lots.

But anyways, as others have already said it also depends on where your at in the map.

sinn

United States132 Posts

July 16 2010 03:29 GMT

#11

this is dependant on both the terrain as well as micro. at a choke, the stalkers win. if the zealots get a flank, they win since they can surround the stalkers. if the stalkers have blink, however, then they win.

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

July 16 2010 04:01 GMT

#12

On July 16 2010 12:29 sinn wrote:
this is dependant on both the terrain as well as micro. at a choke, the stalkers win. if the zealots get a flank, they win since they can surround the stalkers. if the stalkers have blink, however, then they win.

Sums it up well.

It all depends on exactly where you are engaging. With that said, note the map and how easy you think it is to defend your natural opening. As in Desert O is terrible, but LT is good.

palanq

United States761 Posts

July 16 2010 14:03 GMT

#13

if you're not fighting in a choke 3gate chargelot vs 3gate blink stalker is a micro battle but I think in general zealots win.

charge and blink have the same cooldown but charge is autocast so it's a lot less work to micro =p

zealot player also has the option of using guardian shield, which is pretty big in that sort of fight

CryMore

United States497 Posts

July 16 2010 15:38 GMT

#14

Blink stalkers beat chargelots because you are able to snipe and poke at the zealot ball, forcing a couple to charge pre-maturely, pick those off, blink out before the rest come, and repeat.

Honestly, if I see stalkers I'd just get an immortal or 2 or 9 and a few sentries.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

July 16 2010 15:49 GMT

#15

Stalkers cost more then twice the amount of zealots is also something to consider. If the money spent on both is close the zealots win easily if they have charge. Blink micro can sometimes work but it's really hard in big numbers if the zealots have charge. The only reason to mass stalkers somewhat in PvP is that before charge they can kite zealots and don't get stuck so much.

kcdc

United States2311 Posts

July 16 2010 15:58 GMT

#16

Think of it this way:

Zealots are cheap muscular units with higher damage per second and great HP for their cost.

Stalkers are agile ranged units that can abuse terrain to gain tactical advantages.

If the zealots can get up to the stalkers, they'll win easily for cost, but if the stalkers can kite the zealots or if the zealots have some sort of terrain in the way (choke, ramp, buildings, forcefields), the advantage will shift to the stalkers.

Charge prevents kiting, so chargelots will beat stalkers for cost in an open field, but as the forces get larger, forcefield and terrain become a big deal, and you'd rather have stalkers. IMO, if you need a quick meaty defense, use zealots. If you want to attack any position that's not wide open, use stalkers. If you have a robo bay, make zealots so you'll have gas for collosi.

Deleted User 72834

247 Posts

July 16 2010 15:58 GMT

#17

--- Nuked ---

EnderCN

United States499 Posts

July 16 2010 16:19 GMT

#18

When I used to just play Protoss I always went heavy zealots in PvP because they just rip up stalkers. As I got into higher leagues and players got better in general it evened out though because with good micro it isn't really one sided at all.

ToxNub

Canada805 Posts

July 16 2010 16:23 GMT

#19

As mentioned, zealots will beat stalkers if the player forgoes forcefields. Zealots get stomped pretty hard if you can't find a surface to attack. But in my opinion, pure zealot comp is never ideal. For one, you still want guardian shield. Two, pure zealot armies in pvp leave you terribly vulnerable to a void ray surprise in your main, and three, zealots really shouldn't be doing your dps... they are much better suited for preventing his dps from hitting your dps. As in, your immos and stalkers (even if it's just a few) behind your zealots.

Please or register to reply.

Live Events Refresh