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Active: 1582 users

[G] How To Approach Innovation (example with TvZ)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
July 15 2010 22:14 GMT
#1
Hey y'all,

I have been a diamond Terran for awhile and have found that Terran players, more so than the other 2 races, tend to get caught up in the same couple strategies without finding concrete and successful ways to introduce something new into a match up. As a backlash, I see ridiculous stuff that may end up being sound, but is being approached in the wrong way. I will discuss an easy thought process that can tackle this issue and how to dig for results faster than by just grinding 50 games.

1) Pick the matchup you are stuck on and the general way you want to influence the game. Let's say you are feeling frustrated in TvZ, where Zerg can expand really quickly on a ton of maps, and a single Spine crawler backed up by a few Zerglings and a Queen really limit your ability to harass that early expo or punish him for taking it. This was how I started recently, because I have historically been very strong in TvZ, but got sick of going simple Bio and expanding and then letting the Zerg decide how they wanted to go into the middlegame. So I picked TvZ and more harassment.

2) Pick something you like and think can be useful to meet your goal, here Hellions. Hellions torch Drones and also, I thought, I want to use Hellions because Blue Flame really minimizes the efficacy of both Zerglings and Hydras, which are 2 of the most favored units from Zerg. So I want to 'encourage' them to go Roaches, even, because if they do, I can be prepared to battle a Roach-focused mid-games. So that's the next step. See what your plan is, and what unit is good to that end. Consider what the unit does BEYOND just its immediate effect.

3) Consider what you don't want to run into with this unit/strategy. I want early Hellion harassment. What stops Hellions? Well Spinecrawlers and good Queen presence are difficult to deal with. Also, Roaches are tough to handle. All of the above have a rough time vs. Marauders because of their "armored' nature. So Marauder backup seems strong, something Lucifron showed us very early on. So again, it is just: why is this good? What makes it ineffective? Can I do something to shore up this weakness without distracting from the cool thing I want to do?

Here's what most people do at step 4): let's RUSH for Hellion-Marauder, or even worse, they say, I will ONLY go Hellion-Marauder early. They try to do this rush with a 10 Rax, 11 Gas, and speed up to the push, which will do some damage, but then lose after a bit, and they said, "This is BULLSHIT, this push is useless" and they go back to just standard Mech or Bio.

So here's my big tip. 4) Incorporate this new push, this new strategy into something totally standard, and then go from there. If it is good at all, you will see evidence of that. You will know it has potential. Alternatively, you will see that it will have real problems with some strategy. At this stage, all information is good information. So just go a normal 12 Rax, 13 Refinery, Orbital, Factory @ 100 gas. Get your Tech @ 25 gas, start pumping Marauders. Throw down a Reactor when you can, and pump some Hellions and go nuts. The fine-tuning is in "How many Hellions should I wait for?" (answer: 4) or "When is the best time for Concussive Shells?" (answer: as first 2 hellions finish). That stuff comes out when you lose close games. You can see what could have been done better. What would have been the BEST to turn this loss into a win or this harassment into this critical damage. Also, you will learn to answer the great question, "What next?"

In summary, what are the key points to innovating in a system where we have so many "good builds" and "defined" strategies. Use those 'good builds' and start small. Take an idea and really look it over (earlier in the game gives it more potential to be influential). Then, test it out with a build or strategy you KNOW is good enough normally. This way you can see how it fairs in a regular game, and as you get better, you can figure out how to use this strategy in an even better place than whenever it seems to 'fit in'

I see Terran after Terran player with crazy builds trying to do something completely reasonable, in an unreasonable fashion. Fast 2nd Orbital Command but not expanding for 3-4 minutes because they are worried they can't hold it. They make their strategy all about this idea of getting a early economic advantage, instead of, let's say just opening Bio, teching slowly off 1 gas, and using extra minerals to expand a bit quicker.

Maybe you want to try Void Rays vs. Zerg. That's reasonable. So walk through how to maximize that unit, and try a simple 3 or 4 gate opening and then building a Stargate, and just adding Void Rays in. Not rushing them, not massing them, just trying that as your support unit instead of Immortals or whatever. How about Banelings vs Protoss? All of a sudden, you can try normal 2 base into Hydra Roach into a 3rd base, and if you just add the drop upgrade, you can now threaten all kinds of easy harass on the Protoss' normally secure probe line by throwing down the Baneling nest.

The easiest way to innovate for a budding idea is with the safety of an already healthy build. If your strategy only works if you execute this crisp timing down to the second for a brief 10 seconds timing window, you might have some trouble when they harass your building SCV or throw a quick Zealot at you.

Once we all get closer to the level of Day9, we can try whole new builds from the ground up. For now, let's just start by piggy-backing from other good, established ideas.

Cheers!
One Love
Panoptic
Profile Joined September 2009
United Kingdom515 Posts
July 15 2010 22:30 GMT
#2
Awesome post, couldn't agree more. This is an approach I often try to have myself and I think it completely makes sense. Not only does it save you needlessly re-inventing the wheel, I think it can really keep the game fresh. Throwing in a raven instead of a medivac first, or doing everything as you usually would but trying to get a certain upgrade that bit earlier by sacrificing something else.
"Crom laughs at your four winds!"
MD_Vegetables
Profile Joined June 2010
United States43 Posts
July 15 2010 22:56 GMT
#3
This is really quite good advice! I've been thinking about new builds to incorporate, because let's face it - when we find one build that works, many, many people adopt it and it becomes standard and eventually, stale. New builds will always be necessary, and this community will easily be one of the best and most inventive sources for such innovation. I think this post goes a long way toward creating a foundation for useful innovation, not just starting from scratch on a whim. I've never thought about this from your perspective before, and I must say that I like it quite a lot! Thanks for the great post - it's something that all theorycrafters should read!
"50 seconds is a lifetime - seriously, most dogs are born, have puppies, and die in the time it takes to build a Reactor is Starcraft 2." - Day[9]
RawK
Profile Joined April 2010
United States125 Posts
July 15 2010 22:56 GMT
#4
Amazing post. Definatley will be a help to me as I'm working through strategies.

Its one of those things that seems like common sense. I feel like I (and alot of people) want it to work now. The slower you take it, the more likely it is for it to work I guess.

Anyways, good post. Thanks for making it =D
Hail to the Thief. RawK > http://bit.ly/b3gS25
Toads
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1795 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-15 23:03:18
July 15 2010 22:58 GMT
#5
This is really interesting but if you want to get more info you can just listen Day[9]'s podcast about build order : http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SonuvBob/podcasts/Day[9]0010-NewLookAtBuilds.mp3

Edit: oops wrong link
(。◕ ω ◕。) Beer Time !!!! (。◕ ω ◕。)
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-15 23:08:10
July 15 2010 23:04 GMT
#6
I definitely agree, Day9's old casts have a lot of useful information, but he never delves into how to first apply your new idea. He talks about wanting to throw away MutaLing in ZvZ, but he never talks about how he does this. He just said he started from scratch. This is supposed to remind people that innovation starts with understanding long before application and provide a framework for incorporating it into our own play.

EDIT: Let me clarify. He say, "Well I want Guardians. Let me make it at 120 supply." Now he is talking about a HUGE transition. That isn't an innovation, that is strategic transition. I am trying to encourage people to spice up stuff wayyyyy before that kind of stage. I am in fact encouraging almost the opposite. He wants to go Guardians at 120. I would suggest, lets play a normal Hydra Lurk middle game and TRY OUT Mutalisks into Guardians. And see how it goes. That will tell you more than just picking a spot, for players of our caliber.
One Love
CROrens
Profile Joined May 2007
Croatia1005 Posts
July 16 2010 00:46 GMT
#7
this is great, theres just one problem... what are the normal builds? liquipedia shows a total of 1 TvP build and whooping 0 TvT builds (not counting the stubs), so basicaly as a new player i have to go to ALOT of research to see what builds are "general" for a given matchup...

i watch SC:BW and i know every matchup and what units you go, but at SC2...
There is no problem that cannot be solved by the use of high explosives. - Anonymous ......||......Hyuk fan! \o/
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
July 16 2010 01:55 GMT
#8
@ CROrens

I sent you a PM with a couple builds in it. Feel free to stay in touch if you want more information without the grunt work.
One Love
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