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edit: My login expired when I was making this post and forgot to tag it [G/D] when i remade. My apologies.
This is a discussion and guide on which Zerg air unit is more effective against mass void rays. Because hydralisks are ground units Void Rays(VRs) have more flexibility than hydralisks and often times it's a good idea to consider fighting VRs with the more mobile Zerg air units.
A lot of novices make the mistake of automatically assuming Corruptors are the zerg's premiere air to air fighting unit and fail to consider the pros of using mutalisks to counter mass VR. VRs are large and corruptors only get a bonus to massive. Corruptors are armored units and take twice the damage that mutalisks take against VRs. Now I'll compare Mutalisks vs Corruptor in cost,damage, health, upgrades, and special traits.
Cost:
Corruptors: 150m-100g
Mutalisks: 100m-100g
Mutalisks are slightly cheaper, but equal in critical gas.
Damage:
Corruptors: 14 damage
Mutalisks- primary: 9(11.4 adjusted)
Mutalisks- total: 13(16.45 adjusted)
Corruptors do not gain a damage bonus against armored units such as VRs. Mutalisks have a period of roughly 1.5s while corruptors have a period of 1.9s. Time adjusted mutalisks deal the equivilent of 11.4 damage to their primary target in the time Corruptors do their 14. Mutalisks do a secondary and tetiary damage of 3.8 and 1.25 damage respectively. Mutalisk's equivilent damage per 1.9s is 16.45. Mutalisks deal more damage to void rays but a large portion isn't to the primary target. Focus firing is critical to killing VRs before they can charge so the lack of primary damage should be noted.
Health:
Corruptors: 200
Mutalisks: 120 (240 adjusted)
At first glance corruptors have much more HP than mutalisks. However, Void rays deal about double damage against armored units when fully charged. 1 mutalisk HP is twice as effective as 1 Corruptor HP. This gives mutalisks the equivilent of 240 HP compared to a large target like corruptors.
Upgrades:
Attack upgrade:
Corruptor: +1
Mutalisk: +1 +.333 + .111 (+1.26, +.4218, + .1406 adjusted)
Carapace upgrade:
Uncharged:
Corruptor: from 8 damage to 7 damage (12.5% protection)
Mutalisk: from 5 damage to 4 damage (20% protection)
Charged:
Corruptor: from 23 damage to 22 damage (4.3% protection)
Mutalisk: from 10 damage to 9 damage (10% protection)
Again mutalisks get much more from attack and armor upgrades. 1 armor upgrade will block a whopping 20% of an uncharged VR's attack.
Special Traits:
Corruptors:
1) Longer range, mutalisks will take a small amount of damage while moving into position that mutalisks will not. Also Void rays will need to move into position against corruptors giving a tight ball of corruptors a small early advantage in damage.
2) Corruption, makes a given target take an additional 20% damage. Useful in theory but difficult to manage against large clusters of units.
Mutalisks:
1) Can attack ground units. Once the void rays have been dispatched or aren't around Mutalisks can be used to harass or finish the opponent. Very useful. Also will have more Zergling support because of the decreased mineral cost of mutalisks.
2) Significantly faster than Corruptors and VRs. This will help you dictate when and where a battle with VRs occur. Also of note that mutalisks can effectively disengage VRs with few losses. If you chose a battle away from targets for the VRs to keep their charge you can let them lose their charge and reengage. Corruptors can against VRs without the speed upgrade but take more casualties in the process.
If you have anything to add to this discussion feel free to mention it.
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The mutas are all around better, only reason not to use em if the toss has a bunch of phoenixes supporting the void rays.
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I agree with muta's being all around better in the mid game but often if its n the late game and I'm in hive tech I like to use the corrupters so i can mrph broodlords later. I just have this thing where i don't like using mutas lategame versus toss,not sure why, but if it's not hive tech yet mutas for sure.
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Actually I'm pretty sure the combination of the two is best. What's up with zerg thinking in terms of single units?
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Get mutas if there is not many phoenixes.
They are strong against void rays, fast, and can attackground after killing void rays.
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Yup, but it just feels like in a different scenario persay against a Collosus supported army. People tend to get Corrupters, even people like Idra. And it's good I guess because later you can transition them into Brood Lords. Also it feels like Corrupters would be better for sniping. What if it was a zealot + Stalker Heavy Army then they might rape yoru mutalisks.
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Definitely mutas. The only time I really ever get corruptors is if the toss players is using colossuses, or if I plan on going into broodlords. Mutas are much faster and deal damage to multiple targets, but mutas are only really effective if you can mass them.
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In my opinion, It all depends on what you scout/expect afterwards.
1) If you see one stargate and no robotics, I would go mutas. Actually, depending on the number of gateways/canons you see I would go for hydras instead of spire units.
2)If you see robotics or if you've shown mass hydra already, I would expect Colossus and would go corruptors. Same if you see he's going for carriers abviously, but that is so situational it doesn't even matter.
3)If it's very early, mutas can harras like crazy against protoss. So if you think you can get away with them and really want/need air units to chase the rays down, mutas.
Then again, I'm not on the "pro" level, far from it.
On July 08 2010 03:47 ToxNub wrote:
Actually I'm pretty sure the combination of the two is best. What's up with zerg thinking in terms of single units?
We just like smashing 1 button I guess. Smashing mind you, not holding the button down 
EDIT:
On July 08 2010 03:50 rezoacken wrote:
Get mutas if there is not many phoenixes.
I forgot about those :s Would still go mutas if it's very early though, most likely he did not have enough gas to get both.
Aside from the bonus damage to light, don't corruptors also die to micro'd phoenixes?
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On July 08 2010 03:22 Duban wrote:
Corruptors are large units and take twice the damage mutalisks take against VRs.
What? Is this correct?
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On July 08 2010 04:14 prochobo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:22 Duban wrote:
Corruptors are large units and take twice the damage mutalisks take against VRs.
What? Is this correct?
No, Corruptors are armored units and take twice the damage mutalisks take against VRs.
I usually take mutas against VR's because you can use mutas to hit ground and harass too.
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On July 08 2010 04:14 prochobo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:22 Duban wrote:
Corruptors are large units and take twice the damage mutalisks take against VRs.
What? Is this correct?
Yes.
Well, not because they are "large" but because they are armored and VR's do bonus damage to armored. But only when they are charged.
EDIT: O, I typed to slow... Or maybe it's the fact that I'm paranoid about writing the wrong stuff so I always have to check the wiki
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On July 08 2010 04:14 prochobo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:22 Duban wrote:
Corruptors are large units and take twice the damage mutalisks take against VRs.
What? Is this correct?
Yes, Corruptors are Armored, Bio and VRs do +15 dmg vs Armored, plus upgrades
EDIT: smartasses beat us to it
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Question though, obviously things would be different with mass VRs vs mass Mutas, but I think the Fazing trick would actually make a small group of vrs beat a small group of mutas with easy.
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On July 08 2010 04:21 tehemperorer wrote:
Question though, obviously things would be different with mass VRs vs mass Mutas, but I think the Fazing trick would actually make a small group of vrs beat a small group of mutas with easy.
For "static" mutas, maybe. It will surely make a difference. But if the mutas are equally micro'd, stacked, or flying around, I think Fazing could become quite difficult. Maybe once beta comes online we could give this a go
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On July 08 2010 03:50 kineSiS- wrote:
Yup, but it just feels like in a different scenario persay against a Collosus supported army. People tend to get Corrupters, even people like Idra. And it's good I guess because later you can transition them into Brood Lords. Also it feels like Corrupters would be better for sniping. What if it was a zealot + Stalker Heavy Army then they might rape yoru mutalisks.
because against Collosus you get Corrupters
against Voids you get Mutas
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i feel like corruptors are good as a support unit.
in my mind, there's 2 strats here:
1. ling/muta - your army is pretty much dependent on mutas, with ling for ground support
2. a more standard ground army (roach/hydra/infestor/ultra) with corruptors for SUPPORT
the bonus about corrupters is that they only attack air and have a long range.
if you position them behind your ground forces, they will take care of enemy air while your ground forces soak up damage/do the rest of the fighting.
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Fully charged VRs deal 10 damage to mutas, and 25 - 2 armor = 23 to corruptors, so mutas are better in this case.
The thing is you can hit and run with corruptors, as long as the VRs aren't already in your base. This way corruptors will suffer only 3 damage per tick, making them a pretty effective counter, until the VRs have speed or manage to sneak into your base, so they can keep their charge up by attacking your buildings.
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On July 08 2010 04:36 scojac wrote:
1. ling/muta - your army is pretty much dependent on mutas, with ling for ground support
Aside from the early game, this does not seem viable to me. By the time you get some mutas going, Protoss will have his standard Stalker heavy army. Together with Sentries they hurt muta/ling a LOT!
FF block your lings and guardian shield negates muta damage a great deal. Especially the bounce damage suffers greatly.
Mutas are great if you can use them to harras, but as a part of an army, it seems weak most of the times.
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I personally prefer to go Corruptors because in the grand scheme of things I do not really see VRs as being a huge problem as Zerg. In addition to that if/when they add Colossi or if they already have them in the mix Corruptors work wonders against them and if you have your initial/pre-existing stck of corruptors if you decide to get brood lords the transitions much smoother.
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Mutas are worthless vs protoss every unit can counter them even carriers lol + guardian shield
On the other hand only vrais counter ruptors
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Hydras and Nydus Networks work fine. If you really want to chase them down outside of your territory then Mutas would be your best bet, not because their damage is all that great, but because they take 40% less damage from the Void Rays than Corruptors will.
A combination of the two isn't a great idea, since they'll just focus the Corruptors first, obliterate them in a moments, then work on the Mutas and it cost you the same amount of gas. Corrupters do quite a bit less DPS than Mutas that can bounce shots, too.
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Corruptors, thors and carriers are pretty much the only units that can't deal with VRs well (that can attack air).
As zerg I would not get mutas (or corruptors) vs void rays. VRs use up their gas, and you can just pressure them with hydra-ling/etc. While having a few spores and queens in the main base.
If you had to choose though, mutas are definately better, because they are faster (corruptors can't chase down a speed upgraded
VR), plus because they have less health, it won't give time for VRs to charge up, meaning that instead of taking only about 60% less damage than corruptors, they'd take even less, more like 65-75% less damage (both those figures are actually less due to VR having to charge up, but that relative difference still exists).
You also get an extra 50 minerals to spend on drone/queen/zergling/etc.
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To be perfectly honest, either one works fine. I very seldom come across mass-stargate play Protoss, but I almost always smash the hell out of it with my air units. Despite some generally unapplicable video everyone seems to have viewed recently that makes void rays seem incredible, unless your macro is terrible you should be able to handily overpower his air with either mutas or corruptors. In a straight-up fight, I would favour Corruptors because only a very poor player would allow his units to sit around and let the VRs get a full charge on him. You should be moving in, using the Corrupt ability on one or two, mass-firing those units down, and disengaging until the VRs lose their charge, over and over. The disengage gives you time to manage your own macro as well.
If you can't manage as simple a pattern of macro as that, then you should probably lose to the protoss air, which as a zerg player is disgraceful.
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I think it is situational. If they just have a few Void Rays with Colossus, or if you know they will get Colossus, I would use the Corruptor. The Corruptor is excellent against the Colossus. Before the battle starts, you can usually snipe a few Colossi with the Corruptor.
If they have just Void Ray + Gateway units, I would use Mutalisks, but I feel Hydralisks are better against the mix. Sentries decimate Mutalisks, so Hydras would probably be better.
If it is just Void Rays, I would do Hydralisk or Mutalisk, depending on what tech I already have.
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So much miss info fyi , download a freaky unit tester and use it ad see for ur self .
Mutas vs toss they get obliterate vs everything , fyi vs phoenixes and stalkers with sentries and guardian shield its not even a contest. They even loose form carriers as well in same food numbers.
ruptors own phoenixes and carriers and they do fairly well vs voidrays ( the more vrays the better vs ruptors).
Only units that counters vrays are vikings and these can be counter off from phoenixes.
so go ahead mass mutas vs a protoss thats has a clue and give him free points .
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EPT
