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Atlare
Australia893 Posts
Each time i use them for harassing, i don't get what i feel i could've got without banshees or reapers, and if i use them in an army comp. they fall quickly. I know they are fragile but my question is this, what tips could you guys give me, advice etc. Dont ask for a replay, im not confortable with giving them out due to people calling me out on other things i need to improve on. I see TLO and others use hellions, and effectively, but i can't seem to mirror results, any help is welcomed. Thanks | ||
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TouchTheSky
Germany31 Posts
to do effective damge with them youve got to do hit and run except youre attacking the mineral line without andy oppenent damage doing units near... try to position your helions the way their attack do the most damage.... especially in the mineral line of the oppenent you do have to attack the drones the way they do the most damage. that means you trie to focus a drone that has other drones in the near of the line of damge... | ||
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caldo149
United States469 Posts
Another tip is to always target farther units so that all the enemy units in between the hellion and the target get burned too. I've read that if the hellion targets a closer unit the far one doesn't take the splash. I dunno if it's true but it wouldn't hurt to do this anyway. Hellions are great against zealots, sentries, hydralisks and zerglings (since they are all light lol) You may need them in larger numbers against speedlings and hydras though since you can't kite them very well. | ||
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Runaground
Moldova36 Posts
Couple of days ago I saw a thread with the few maps for improving your Terran micro. One of the maps was with hellions vs zerglings. And after ~15-25 minutes of playing it I found the way I am comfortable with hellions. I use right click to move them and then I press H(hold position) when I want them to attack (the tip I read somewhere here too). This style is good when you fight vs zerglings. Of course, when I want to attack workers I use rightclick. The main problem is to feel the timing when Hellions are ready to attack again, to feel the cooldown. This will come with practice. Hellions should always move when they do not attack. | ||
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Rothgar
United States17 Posts
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Hellions do 3.2 dps against non-light units, thats hardly impressive. But when you take into account, that they can actually hit 6 units at the same time, probably more, then its closer to 19 dps. Looks better when compared to for example a hydra's 15 dps And with preigniter against light units, up to 57 dps, lol, it starts to be a LOT  Imo, the most important is to make sure you actually use most of the splash, they are a bit weak otherwise. Ofc, theres also the whole kiting thing, but Im talking more about an actual army. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
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SkullOne
United States52 Posts
On May 25 2010 21:34 Runaground wrote: I felt the same, I didn't know how to use hellions at all. How to micro them effectively. Couple of days ago I saw a thread with the few maps for improving your Terran micro. One of the maps was with hellions vs zerglings. And after ~15-25 minutes of playing it I found the way I am comfortable with hellions. I use right click to move them and then I press H(hold position) when I want them to attack (the tip I read somewhere here too). This style is good when you fight vs zerglings. Of course, when I want to attack workers I use rightclick. The main problem is to feel the timing when Hellions are ready to attack again, to feel the cooldown. This will come with practice. Hellions should always move when they do not attack. Do you still have that thread handy? Would like to do that myself as my Hellion micro could use some work. | ||
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Thuw
United States18 Posts
I believe that video didn't even get the upgrade, that's even more damage with the upgrade! | ||
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PacketOverflow
United States80 Posts
-Get into melee range. Don't A-click with them, instead move your Hellions right up against their units and watch the splash really take effect. If you A-click, they will only hit a single target at the end of their range. -Learn their firing speed. When kiting units, you need to know the timing between Hellion attacks. Once you learn it, you can move away and stop/hold position to maximize damage to the enemies while minimizing damage to your Hellions. -Make sure the enemies are lined up. This is where you really have to pay attention to detail. For instance, while moving towards the worker line, look for the most amount of workers in a line formation. Move your Hellions to them, right click a worker in the line. Usually you'll have to do this while also employing the above tactics. Using Hellions to their maximum requires a large amount of APM and attention, but when done properly can be a devastating force to be reckoned with. One last tip, don't make the same mistake i used to make vs Zerg. Just because they are harassment units, doesn't mean you can send them in one at a time as they build because you should theoretically never lose Hellions if you play right. Speedlings outrun Hellions OFF CREEP so you need to be moving out with 4-5 Hellions minimum imo. Lastly, units that Hellions are quite effective against: -Drones -Zerglings -Hydras -Probes -Zealots -Sentries -High Templar -Dark Templar -SCVs -Marines -Hellions(?) Notice that this includes one of the most important Zerg units and 4/5 gateway units for Protoss. Hellions with the upgrade can be completely devastating for templar/gateway heavy Protoss as well as Hydra massing. And this is a unit that costs just 100 minerals! | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
when someone maynards, you never want to take a shot at the probes perpendicular to the maynard line if you can help it. Lots of times you will only get 1-2 shots off before the opponent brings units in (just like SC1) so you need clutch reactions and patience in getting close to the probes for those short instances, and then attack. If you just a move, or let hellions do their own thing, well, you're not getting the full benefit of them. | ||
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SchOOl_VicTIm
Greece2394 Posts
Then I stopped playing "normally" and started playing all my games on iccup (the bw ladder) with vultures as my main unit. No matter what my opponent did, I started doing some lame ass (for what is considered "standard play") 2 or 3 fact openings (with dropships as well sometimes) all focused on producing many many vultures and applying pressure with them early on and trying to basically win the game with them, or to gain a very big advantage which will make me end the game easily in mid game. Even if my first attack failed, I kept making vultures (just like helions they come pretty fast) and after having a new bunch of them I'd go in again and try to cause some more havoc. It was really hard at first and I kept losing a lot, especially at the beginning. I totally let go of that fact though. My only goal was to get better at vulture control. I even dropped a rank and kept losing, but it didn't matter. I did that for a full whole week. Imagine an approximate of 60-70 games I guess, maybe a bit less. When I started playing "normal" again, the difference was really noticeable. I remember rewatching my replays of some of my games of that period at some point and I couldn't keep up with myself harassing all over the map at 2 places at the same time again and again and again. It was one of the most rewarding awesome feelings I've had through my years of playing bw  I also remember JF (the winner of the first TSL) when asked in an interview how is he so good with his reaver control, all he said was: "I just use it a lot". That's all you have to do really  | ||
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McPricE
58 Posts
On May 26 2010 01:46 SkullOne wrote: Do you still have that thread handy? Would like to do that myself as my Hellion micro could use some work. An enthusiastic +1 for this micro practice thread. kILLER VID, unreal they still owning the stalkers | ||
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Tresh
Argentina68 Posts
On May 25 2010 21:34 Runaground wrote: Couple of days ago I saw a thread with the few maps for improving your Terran micro. Linking to that thread would be greatly appreciated. EDIT: He may be talking about This one Looks nice, although only for terran. Havent tested it yet. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
Hellions are also useful as scouts. It may seem counterintuitive to waste 100 minerals on a scout, but if you have to choose between wasting a hellion and wasting a scan, toss a hellion into your enemy's base. They have the potential to see a lot more than a scan AND they're cheaper than the opportunity loss of ~240 minerals mines by a mule. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Hellion effectiveness as killers drastically increases when you get a large amount of them. They're great killers when you upgrade their flame, but honestly even if you get out 5 upgraded hellions speedlings will rip them apart. Its really the same as siege tanks imo. Once you get a critical mass, and good positioning, you can kill pretty much infinity zerglings. If you are in equal numbers, then you do need a little micro, true. For example, if you have 10 upgraded hellions, as you mention, for the same cost, your opponent would have 40 speedlings. If you just attack move, then the first volley will kill only 2-3 lings, at max range, then the lings close the gap, and start dpsing down the hellion, while they take agest ot recharge. If you manage to delay that first shot, until the lings are almost in melee range, then you get pretty much the same effect with that first shot, all lings within 6 range die instantly, except this time you killed 10-15 lings with your first round, instead of just 2-3, and that makes the rest much easier. | ||
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OrgaDale
United States11 Posts
Just gotta be somewhat fast... not that hard. Practice with the build order trainer. Build Alot of marines and 4-8 hellions and practice it... blahblahlbha | ||
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pyr0ma5ta
United States458 Posts
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afirlortwo
United States161 Posts
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Asunder
United States15 Posts
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jabbalegs
United Kingdom6 Posts
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morimacil
France921 Posts
The hellions were also 1200 gas cheaper than the stalkers, so yeah, its not super even, and not awesome micro on both parts, just meant to show that hellions in melee range of packs of units do about 6 times more damage than hellions at max range, thats all. | ||
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Asunder
United States15 Posts
By the way, nice first post, lol. | ||
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nujgnoy
United States204 Posts
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stickman.hqt
United States47 Posts
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SpaceChick
173 Posts
On June 02 2010 02:58 nujgnoy wrote: The vod is ridiculous -. - The stalkers actually CLUMPED during the battle, making it even more unrealistic than if there was no AI at all to reposition the stalkers. The bit with stalker is really bad and no one should take it seriously. On June 02 2010 00:06 jabbalegs wrote: The purpose of that video was clearly to show how effective a hellion mass can be when used in melee range, not to show they are a good counter to stalkers. | ||
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nujgnoy
United States204 Posts
The stalkers actually CLUMPED during the battle It doesn't matter what unit clumps. The hydras actually CLUMPED during the battle The zealots actually CLUMPED during the battle The zerglings actually CLUMPED during the battle The fact that the units clump will exaggerate the hellion's capacity. The video clearly shows how effective a hellion mass can be when used in melee range AND THE OPPONENT'S UNIT CONSTANTLY CLUMPS. | ||
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