Hi, I'm platinum rank ~15 player currently playing protoss. I've played about 800 games so far using toss, and been going the same 9pylon, 13gate, 15gas, 16pylon, cyber whenever build the entire time. I noticed recently a lot of toss opponents have been going 2 gate zealots all ins. I've been scouting on 9 because of it, but even after i see it coming, they are difficult to fend off. Do I have to fend off with photon cannons or is there another option?

keNNabis

Canada159 Posts

May 12 2010 01:02 GMT

make first zealot when ur gateway is done, when core is done, pound out sentries asap, the more the merrier to block ur choke and you can just laugh at a bunch of zealots run around like headless chickens outside your choke

otherwise, buy another pylon to wall up if you feel you're running out of time

or get another gate up, take probes off gas, get another gate, then carry on after rushing is over

but usually when i get the 2 gate all in vs me, i just sentry up asap and micro, usually works

shmoo

United States139 Posts

May 12 2010 01:12 GMT

I have only been successful with two different strats against 2 gate all ins. Drop a forge and get a canon and quickly tech to Void Ray or Colossi while not falling too far behind. Really depends on how they react to the canon. They may pull back and go for a 4 warp gate all in go just try to break you with tons of zealots.

The other option is to 2 gate as well, use a few probes for defense, and beat him at his own game.
This can result in an escalating match of zealot on zealot action so it is really important to scout what he is doing. If he gets gas and a core, then you have time where you have more zealots and you go in and win when you scout that. Or you try to gain an advantage by teching while holding off his zealot pressure.

iCCup.Nove

United States260 Posts

May 12 2010 01:15 GMT

I'm sorry I didn't watch the replays but just throwing in some general ideas.

It is not an "all-in".
I'm able to get my gate at 12 while still pumping probes from a 9 pylon then it's 14 gas. Try to iron out the BO. Also don't feel committed to 1 gateing after seeing him put down 2 gates. If you happen to spot the gates in time put your second one down asap. Just like in BW. Obviously his units have to travel so even if you did something such as gate-gas-gate you should still be fine. I also recommend narrowing your choke by placing your pylon and gate at the entrance of the ramp or choke so only 1 zealot can enter. This buys you lots of time and makes dealing with the zealots much easier even if you have fewer than your opponent. If possible chronoboost your probes to get ahead economically while he boosts his zealots. Dealing with a 2 gate rush in my opinion requires a semi decent amount of multi tasking skill. (Continuing to produce probes, dealing with the pressure at your choke, building zealots/tech, and not getting supply capped.) Like most things, practice is best.

kzn

United States1218 Posts

May 12 2010 01:19 GMT

in my limited experience the only way to hold it off without going gateways yourself is to have an extremely good choke and get ranged units up asap. At that point, you can abuse FFs/chokes in general to give yourself time to tech up and push out.

iSTime

1579 Posts

May 12 2010 01:30 GMT

I've actually been having a lot of success going 3 gate zealots to open in PvP, with the main intent not being to win outright but to severely damage their economy. Basically if the opponent goes 1 gate they can't hold off the zealots without losing tons of probes or being forced to cannon up and cut probes. Once they get a critical mass of sentries/stalkers and I can't do more damage I throw down 2 gas and core and macro hard.

If they go 4 gate to counter I just get 3 gates and tech to DTs. If they cannon up I pretty much just expand and get blink, since it crushes any Stargate build, and if they get immortals you can blink in and snipe them quickly so they don't rape your stalkers.

Probably the best way to deal with any kind of multiple gate zealots is to throw down a 2nd gateway immediately after cyber core and not to get the 2nd gas too quickly. If you try to defend with 1 gateway you will get run over or lose a ton of probes (once their in your base all the stalker/sentry micro in the world won't stop them from just using 2 zealots to mess with your mineral line while the rest a-move your army).

ccJroy

United States483 Posts

May 12 2010 02:19 GMT

Edited because im told im terrible.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

May 12 2010 02:50 GMT

On May 12 2010 11:19 justinsroy wrote:
Personally for me i hated doing the 2/3 gate zealot rush in PvP, i saw it time and time again so i got a build to counter this.

9 pylon
10 gateway
11 or 12 forge

After this its your decision what # you would like to cannon up, usually i do 13-14 dropping 2 cannons and have 1-2 zealots just to back it up.

90% of the people who see this will just "ok cannoned up, lets expand". At that point i quickly tech into DT's while droning up and push with DT's and pray they havent gotten any detection yet due to early expanding. (DT's usually come out ~6-6.5 minute mark, still timing myself in matches to see how quick i can get them out).

Tons of times they just have mass zealots due to 2-3 gate and doing temp archives or try to stargate push me, unless they built a robo quickly after that initial push, then i can usually end it or put a huge hurt on their economy before they have a way to stop it.

I'm sorry, but your build is bad. Getting a forge that early really not only hurts your eco, but also puts you behind in tech. Additionally, it's pretty easy for your opponent to not only expand, but get an observer, or at least just a robotics out onto the field before you even build your first DT.

The much, much, much better option would be to get a gateway at the regular 12 or 13 timing, then core at 17 or 18. If you see them chrono-ing zealots, then chrono your own first zealot as well. If it's a short distance rush map, add another gateway asap. If it's a 4-player or long distance rush, then you should have plenty of time to get a sentry. Use force fields to separate their forces into smaller, easily manageable chunks so you can pick their forces apart easily.

Another alternative to zealot+sentry is stalker+sentry. In this case just constantly block your ramp and have your stalkers get free and safe shots at the zealots. At the same time, continue teching and once you have your tech on the field, you should be in a good position for the rest of the game.

iSTime

1579 Posts

May 12 2010 02:55 GMT

On May 12 2010 11:50 Ryuu314 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm sorry, but your build is bad. Getting a forge that early really not only hurts your eco, but also puts you behind in tech.

The much, much, much better option would be to get a gateway at the regular 12 or 13 timing, then core at 17 or 18. If you see them chrono-ing zealots, then chrono your own first zealot as well. If it's a short distance rush map, add another gateway asap. If it's a 4-player or long distance rush, then you should have plenty of time to get a sentry. Use force fields to separate their forces into smaller, easily manageable chunks so you can pick their forces apart easily.

Another alternative to zealot+sentry is stalker+sentry. In this case just constantly block your ramp and have your stalkers get free and safe shots at the zealots. At the same time, continue teching and once you have your tech on the field, you should be in a good position for the rest of the game.

This, except I think you need to add the 2nd gate on any map other than like metalopolis diagonal positions (and obviously desert oasis, but who would 2-3 gate rush on that map?). On LT you can't hold off 4 zealots with reinforcement with the 2 zealots+1 sentry+1 gate producing. And definitely don't do the build he quoted as being bad. Relying on your opponent being too dumb to get a cannon or two to hold the expansion against DTs is weak. An intelligent opponent who has such a huge lead is going to sacrifice some to prevent cheesy wins.