EPTBaneling Detonation Logic - Page 3
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
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poor newb
United States1879 Posts
and dead marines do no damage, why the hell would you not just kill them the instant you can | ||
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BladeRunner
United States407 Posts
On May 10 2010 06:02 poor newb wrote: if you dont detonate they can just micro to stim, back away and pick them off and dead marines do no damage, why the hell would you not just kill them the instant you can You must have missed his point about banelings absorbing damage for your other units, not to mention the apm spent to target fire them. | ||
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Piousflea
United States259 Posts
Two banelings (60 HP) detonating in the middle of a marine cluster can easily kill 10 marines. If you delay the detonation by 0.86 seconds, that gives all 10 marines a chance to fire 1 additional shot (60 damage). If the delay is more than 0.86 seconds, you're taking MORE damage by "allowing banelings to tank" than by allowing them to detonate immediately. The main reason to use move instead of attack-move is when the opponent has microed his Marauders in front of his Marines. In this case, attack-move will cause your banelings to detonate harmlessly on marauders. However, this rationale has absolutely nothing to do with absorbing 30 damage per Baneling by "letting them tank". | ||
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codewarrior
United States52 Posts
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love1another
United States1844 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On May 09 2010 22:29 mrlie3 wrote: Once Banelings get speed upgrade, all of these logics are negligible. =) Man aren't they fast! I want to see more Zerg to play burrowed Banelings btw. Stop Lurkers did terrible, terrible damage to SC1 Terran, why not here? What? How would speed make it negligible to intentionally not detonate on a few marauders instead of loads of marines? | ||
intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
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kxr1der
United States213 Posts
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
 (sometimes when you have enough banelings it doesn't matter though lol). | ||
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Marksman
Malaysia523 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On May 10 2010 07:50 codewarrior wrote: Burrowed banelings can have "unburrow" on autocast, turning them into Spider Mines. Wait, really? That is so win. | ||
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brinbran
United States52 Posts
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Hold-Lurker
United States403 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
On May 10 2010 08:59 brinbran wrote: the thing about detonate is you shouldn't even use it when they're burrowed. if you simply unborrow under their army they will blow up anyway and if your banelings are out of range, they will chase down the near units. the only time to detonate is to kill ghosts are dark templar that you can't actually see so that the splash kils them Ah that's an interesting point. Not sure if I'm too fond of this as a T player though... I mean this is the opposite of how infested terrans in sc1 worked. And it makes stopping banelings pretty powerful since once they are near you shooting them doesn't even matter. | ||
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Dox
Australia1199 Posts
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morimacil
France921 Posts
But about only ever moving them: It really depends. If you are next to the marauders, and going after the marines, then obv moving instead of attack moving is a good idea. But if you have an optimal placement next to the marines, blow up the marines. If your opponent is microing, you run the risk of him target firing your other units, ignoring the baneling, thus making them useless. Other stuff can happen. stim and run away with half the army, saving it because your banelings are slower, and only moving, not exploding. If you got the shot, take the shot. If you dont, then move instead of attack moving. | ||
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chiss
Australia27 Posts
On May 10 2010 04:14 BetaWeak wrote: Chiss, very good thoughts. I play a lot of bling so I found this thread incredibly interesting and useful. A couple things: -As a few other people, notably Generico, have said, you're right about the blings being great damage tanks; however, if you have an opportunity for a kill shot, like if you've been moving alongside the rines for a while and you've actually got your blings interspersed through them, and the other guy is still manually targeting your other units (which only makes sense, cause if he kills the blings he's toast), then you're better off a-moving the blings (and obviously not manually detonating because, as you said, this is usually wasteful) instead of just letting him continue to snipe your army. Indeed, there are situations when Attack Move would be advantageous, such as when they focus fire on your other units, and ignore the Banelings. However, in this situation, i prefer to pull my army back, just leaving their Marines surrounded by Banelings. If they STILL don't shoot them, then I will Attack Move. On May 10 2010 04:14 BetaWeak wrote: -Question: The first thing I thought of when I started reading your first post was blast radius. If you've got blings running alongside rines, they might not be close enough to do significant damage when they die--am I right? I'm not saying to run your whole Baneling Ball parallel beside the Marines. You should be trying to become 'a part' of the MMM ball. So your Banelings will be shoulder to shoulder, left, right, up, down. On May 10 2010 05:16 Yizuo wrote: Thanks for the info .While we're at it, what do you think about banelings vs toss? Great Question. I am not a big advocate against Banelings vs Protoss. Banelings are almost as wasteful against Zealots as they are Marauders. However, it can make the difference and i have found them useful against heavy Zealot builds. Quite simply though, Roaches are much better against Zealots, and only cost 25 minerals more than a Baneling. On May 10 2010 04:26 Floophead_III wrote: No, banelings actually are overpowered vs bio terran. There is no amount of micro you can do. Marauders, which are the supposed counter to banelings, don't even work. If you go pure marauder I can go pure baneling and still come out in good shape. Speedlings/mutas can clean up what banelings don't kill. This isn't something that's open for discussion, it's a fact. I've played so much TvZ trying to make bio work vs banelings and you can't. Your best bet is to get thor/bio and hope to god z is stupid enough to: a) suicide his mutas into your thors b) suicide his banelings into your thors c) not get infestors Granted the infestor nerf makes early thor/bio pushes a lot stronger but I still think mass baneling/speedling should do fine because as long as most of the bio is gone thors become worthless vs lings. Once it reaches midgame infestors are out and it's gg. I wasn't going to reply to this, as i didn't really feel it was that related. However, yes, Banelings are a counter to MMM. You cannot expect to win with MMM against an equal valued Baneling army with Ling/Muta backup. Though, Terran have a number of Mech builds, Hellion/Thor/Tanks, which absolutely squash any use for a Baneling. The Hellions also allow early harass which can deny expansions and are great if they try to Baneling Bust. I genuinely think we are going to see a shift in TvZ towards Mech, all the time. On May 10 2010 05:35 aliciakeys wrote: so do you press m then left click or right click them? They do exactly the same thing. I right click, as you'll need to be clicking quite a lot, rapidly, in order to get them to get a nice surround on the Marines. On May 10 2010 07:46 Piousflea wrote: I still disagree with the "use banelings to tank" strategy. Two banelings (60 HP) detonating in the middle of a marine cluster can easily kill 10 marines. If you delay the detonation by 0.86 seconds, that gives all 10 marines a chance to fire 1 additional shot (60 damage). If the delay is more than 0.86 seconds, you're taking MORE damage by "allowing banelings to tank" than by allowing them to detonate immediately. The main reason to use move instead of attack-move is when the opponent has microed his Marauders in front of his Marines. In this case, attack-move will cause your banelings to detonate harmlessly on marauders. However, this rationale has absolutely nothing to do with absorbing 30 damage per Baneling by "letting them tank". Ah, yes, but i strongly disagree. You see. That extra 0.86 seconds is the Marines shooting the Banelings. They are going to die anyway, so the LONGER they get shot at, the better. Because that is 0.86 seconds the rest of your army is attacking while your opponent shoots things that are going to die anyway. Realise, that's also another 0.86 seconds to get the Banelings into a better position to Detonate on. As i said though, if they are focus firing your Mutalisks/Lings, then you should certainly Attack Move once youre in good proximity of the Marines. Alternatively, pull your Mutalisks/Lings away and the Marines will shoot the Banelings to their demise. You also made the assumption that 'two Banelings in the middle of a cluster of 10 Marines could kill them all instantly'. Yeah, sure, but you will likely never be in the middle of a Marine cluster. And even if you are, those Banelings are the 'closest' and will be attacked first as a result. If you need further clarification, ask. On May 10 2010 08:14 kxr1der wrote: there is a video of day9 playing against tasteless? http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6708513 Game 1 is where i disagree with his use of Banelings. | ||
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Shindrah
United States74 Posts
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Shindrah
United States74 Posts
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