[D] Zerg greed vs zerg macro - Page 3

Deleted User 55994

949 Posts

May 06 2010 08:24 GMT

#41

Zerg FE is able to hold against absolutely any 1 base attack meant to break it if you scout it and aren't too greedy to build the units and crawlers to defend it. This is why it's the standard build, and why it was the standard build in BW as well. This isn't anything recent, it's the entire nature of zerg and always has been

The reason you fe as zerg is simple and it's been explained here time and time again, if you don't make another hatchery you fall behind on units very fast. Might as well make it at an expo.

foxmeep

Australia2333 Posts

May 06 2010 08:39 GMT

#42

You cannot produce enough units and drones at the same time off one hatchery, even with a queen. It's as simple as that. Protoss and Terran have a dedicated production facility for miners, while Zerg has to choose to either make miners or combat units.

15/16 hatch is the best time to get a second production facility (ie, a hatchery) because once you have this many drones you're already using up every single larvae with minerals to spare. This leaves you two options. Expand, or tech and mass units. The latter is most certainly an "all-in" tactic.

I play random and seeing a Zerg 1 base when I'm T or P is almost an insta-win. I know I'm getting ahead economically, and I also know they can't produce enough units off 1 hatchery to overrun me.

You don't necessarily have to build mass drones if you FE (and thereby lose to a timing push), but you most certainly need a second hatchery early on in the game unless you're doing some shitty all-in build. And Zerg 1 base all-ins are incredibly easy to stop.

Rabiator

Germany3948 Posts

May 06 2010 10:14 GMT

#43

Personally I think that Zerg still have to outexpand the other races (as they had to in SC1) to succeed. Succumbing to "cheese" is usually a sign of being unwilling to invest in defensive structures like Spine and Spore crawlers and extra queens. None of those will be unused, but they have high hit points and are rather cheap:

Since you are spending your drones for buildings you might be able to delay the next Overlord and maybe get another mobile unit out as well,
the static defenses can be used to block access into your main base and mineral lines and deny access to your workers, thus making you less likely to lose them and
the static defenses have very high hit points and can be healed via Transfusion, so they dont die easily to cheese.
Extra Queens can spawn many creep tumors if their energy gets close to maxed and cover a bigger part of the map with creep for your eventual assault. You can also transfer them to your 3rd / 4th base if you seem pretty secure at your first two bases.

IMO the problem is rather the attitude of many Zerg players who want to start with aggression ASAP. This is wrong, because the race is designed to waste waves of units on an enemy army to take it out and then replace the army much faster than the opponent. You do that by having LOADS of larvae in many bases and an economic advantage. As Day[9] always says: "Why win now with an 80% chance, when you can win later with a 100% chance?"

To achieve that a Zerg needs an economic advantage and more bases than the opponent. Its also the reasoning behind the masses of Spine crawlers we see in Korean battles IMO ... economy first, fighting second. If that style is not to your taste then its too bad, but you always have to be prepared for a late game battle which requires loads of units.

Apart from the Roach many Zerg ground units can be killed relatively easy en masse in mid-late game by such things as Colossi, Hellions, Psi Storm or even Siege tanks. Because of this you need the capability and the economy to replace the units fast. For both you need extra bases ... easy and simple logic.

EDIT: The "super economy tactic" is how IdrA plays and no one can deny his success.

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[D] Zerg greed vs zerg macro - Page 3

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