EPT[D] TvT howto - Page 2
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whaTITdoz
United States92 Posts
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Warnipple
Canada57 Posts
Most TvT's end up with tanks/marines and vikings. I usually open with a starport reactor to make vikings and then start producing tanks with marines as my mineral dump. The marines are your shields so your tanks don't die as fast. Its questionable to get marauders for TvT because their +armor dmg but it takes 6 hits from a marauder to kill a upgraded marine wheras it takes 7 to kill a marauder (you could have two marines as shields). Anyway you just dig in and wait til air confrontation. Only fight if the battle is in your favor (ie you have better upgrades and same amount of units or fighting near your starport where you can pump out extra vikings in the fight. Always remember to focus fire as well too). Usually if you control the skies you win. If your opponent goes MM you can deny him medivacs with vikings and force him to make vikings of his own. Tanks destroy MM anyway. - If he neglects to make any air; you start making banshees to kill his tanks. This means you must always control the skies. You cannot ever let your opponent have a bigger viking army because it will be harder for you to expand safely. After all that its pretty much a slow campaign to his base with tanks moving up slowly. Occasionally I start with a Thor drop because its able to 1 shot SCV's. | ||
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TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
On May 04 2010 00:41 whaTITdoz wrote: For me I have found early reaper harass -> 2x rax -> tanks early push with transition to vikings if banshees and more maurders if thors. Seems to cover most of what people do now and punishes people for fast teching. One problem is 3-4x rax pushes, but that mostly just comes down to scouting and usually the early reaper harass will set them back far enough to get your tanks out and pressure them. ive been doingsomething similar to this, pushing out with a blob of MM and two tanks, if they went for banshees i got marine heavy, generally its 2rax depending on scouting. ive done especially well with this vs banshee builds, ill push out with two scans, or wait for raven depending on their harass, and if i killed the banshees/saw cloak tech | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
Thor > banshee, tank, medivac Tank > marine, RBG RBG > Thor, RBG Marine > Thor, RBG Generally, you want to scale down on marine production once they commit to tanks. A small task force of banshees can be effective at popping tanks right before an assault. | ||
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CheAse
Canada919 Posts
12 rax 12 scout for tech lab --->if tech lab, place marines at likely ledges, watch for reapers --->if 2 rax, bunker at your ramp sweet spot --->if he is going marauders you will not be able to move out fast and FE with tanks 13 gas 15 OC always constant marine production factory when you have the gas make another gas when you have enough mins 1 or 2 tanks,use 2nd or 3rd scan to see if they have a port with tech lab --->if port has a tech lab drop a reactor on your rax, and swap it with your port when its done --->if they have port, make your port after 1 tank is qued, --->if no port, make your port after 2nd or 3rd tank. Start to contain and push your opponents natural with tanks and vikings with a marine buffer for marauders Expand after contain | ||
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
I actually like mirror matches and do very well in them and i typically open thor most games because my net has been very bad lately and the delay makes banshees a lot more difficult to use. | ||
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SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
As far as defending reaper harass goes, making a marauder or two early (or just putting a bunker by your workers) works very well. | ||
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
If they go 4 rax, then you land your vikings. and put your tanks BACK...FAR BACK. I have a pretty good record for tvt | ||
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RawrAnOcean
United States359 Posts
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HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:41 starcraft911 wrote: if your micro is good you should be going banshee/vikings. Thors are beatable by banshees if you spread them up and pull the one being targeted. Just don't let them get critical mass. Force them to turret and out expo them and tech switch to bc. No. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
On May 04 2010 03:00 HalfAmazing wrote: TvT is very random and unfun at the moment. ;( I loved it in BW, but it's a dice roll in SCII. How is it a dice roll? | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
Compared to BW, sc2 TvT has a MUCH harder counter system. Also, T in sc2 has much worse scouting due to how expensive each scan is. Sc1 TvT was mostly about positioning. Sc2 TvT is all about unit composition. Combine harder counters with worse scouting and the result is: The matchup is MUCH more luck reliant. | ||
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Trollface
United States15 Posts
If I'm pushing against a choke I'll hotkey two groups of siege tanks and leapfrog them, and keep a big group of Hellions on another hotkey to exploit any opportunity to drive through and hit the enemy mineral line, or move up fast if their splash will help (shuts down speedlings as a counter to siege tanks, works well if a Protoss tries to counter your siege tanks with massed immortals - ten Hellions will just about knock down an Immortal's shield in one attack, and if you do it right you'll hit a few of them with the splash and the tanks will clean them up). Ravens are also important to build if your opponent might be Banshee-harassing...I also like to randomly throw down missile turrets near my mineral line if I've got some SCVs with nothing better to build. I'd rather not waste MULE energy on scanning my own base. I find that if I've been building Hellions I'll have plenty of gas for Ravens in decent numbers, and I really want to try using seeker missiles against viking/banshee after I saw a replay where someone used them to great effect against massed Brood Lords (no one's been kind enough to try that against me in numbers I couldn't handle with marines alone lately). | ||
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SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
On May 04 2010 03:51 link0 wrote: Compared to BW, sc2 TvT has a MUCH harder counter system. Also, T in sc2 has much worse scouting due to how expensive each scan is. Sc1 TvT was mostly about positioning. Sc2 TvT is all about unit composition. Combine harder counters with worse scouting and the result is: The matchup is MUCH more luck reliant. I strongly disagree here. If you use a balanced unit composition where the units actually compliment each other well and aren't easily hard countered (as mentioned above, I have a lot of success with marines, tanks, and vikings), it becomes much less luck based. It's a given in any matchup that using a build that has a hard counter to it will be more likely to fail if your opponent happens to pick the build which is that hard counter. From my experience (high level in gold league), tanks are still very crucial to TvT and having good positioning of your units will give you a huge advantage. You still want SCVs building missile turrets along your tank lines. The difference is that armies are much more mobile now (vikings in particular completely change the scope of TvT). As far as scouting goes, sensor towers are an excellent method of at least keeping track of where your opponent is. And while scans are expensive, try to figure out a good timing for using it. I find that using my third 50 energy on a scan will usually give me a good idea of what my opponent is doing, which is certainly well worth it. | ||
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KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
Anyway, the way I see it, mirror matches are all about building economic separation between you and your opponent. Obviously you can do this by either pressuring early, or fast expanding. What i've been doing a lot lately is is building 1 or 2 reapers early, to reduce their SCV count. Then, I tech straight to Banshees, Ebay/ turrets if i see banshees/vikings, then I back tech to M&M&M, supported by thors or tanks and Ravens, obviously upgrades, and then just try to deny their 3rd while taking mine. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
One example of the huge dice game: You scan a starport with tech lab. It can either be banshees with cloak, banshees without cloak, or a Raven. Now what do you do? If you don't have turrets or a Raven, you are screwed if he goes banshees with cloak. If you do make turrets, you are way behind if he only made a raven or doesn't get cloak on his banshees. In high level TvT, being just a few hundred minerals behind at such an early stage in the game is huge. | ||
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Sanitys
Canada126 Posts
Generally I like to start by going for tanks with a few marines and marauders to support. I try to push in early and bunker up and prevent them from expoing. After my bunker I toss down a barracks and float it to give me sight to high ground start tank pushing. I push out some vikings to deal with any banshees and toss down some turrets for detection and added AA. After I switch into banshees to pick off any tanks they try to set up on high ground. Then just keep expanding and pushing in slowly. This build is highly susceptible to a 4 rax MMM push if they come in before you have tanks out. If they are slow and you have 1-2 tanks out you should be able to push it back and get set up for your tank push. Also while you are pushing you have to try to keep enough pressure to make sure he is not comfortable sneaking out a drop or air units to harass you with. | ||
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HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
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