EPTaoe feedback would be sweet lol >
PvT - Nearly unbeatable unit combo? - Page 8
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
aoe feedback would be sweet lol > | ||
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
Sounds like a noobie question..but I don't think I've ever been in a long late game TvP. (I'm currently like 28th in Gold). Just wondering what an ideal late game Terran army would be like. (In BW, it would be Vultures, Tanks, Vessels, a few Goliaths). | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On May 04 2010 08:51 BrTarolg wrote: Lol all this talk about HT's I think the main thing is that a protoss opening including HT's is extremely tech heavy and doesn't apply enough pressure to be considered a strong opening Ht's are a much better midgame transition than an opener I am more interested in a general counter to the marine/tank/raven push when it first comes out Heavy chargelot/sentry will do just fine before the marine force gets too big. However, keep in mind that the more marines that the terran has, the longer he'll delay his push, and the more likely it is that you'll have storm. | ||
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TenSafeFrogs
United States54 Posts
Super long game (about an hour) and they go through all the resources on the map. Here's the first ghost you see, but there's a few more spots with HT vs. Ghost + MMM and lots of storms going off. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 09:26 TenSafeFrogs wrote: + Show Spoiler + There's a pretty good long replay here that has a decent amount of HT/DT vs. Ghost encounters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYAIkrwTJY Super long game (about an hour) and they go through all the resources on the map. Here's the first ghost you see, but there's a few more spots with HT vs. Ghost + MMM and lots of storms going off Seems to support my theory. HT try to make the diffirence, but don't quite cut it. Showcases just how useless the mothership and archon are too. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On May 04 2010 09:38 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: Seems to support my theory. HT try to make the diffirence, but don't quite cut it. Showcases just how useless the mothership and archon are too. lol it showcases how the Mothership would have won him the game if he waited for it. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 10:02 Half wrote: lol it showcases how the Mothership would have won him the game if he waited for it. Really? Cause it pretty clearly got emp'd and gibbed in about 4 seconds. How would that have won the game, exactly? | ||
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TenSafeFrogs
United States54 Posts
On May 04 2010 10:05 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: How would that have won the game, exactly? Cuz he attacked with his last army but didn't wait for the mothership - it was flying over towards the battle, but was too far away. Hard to say if it really would have made a difference, but it definitely seems like attacking without it was a big mistake on his part. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 10:12 TenSafeFrogs wrote: Cuz he attacked with his last army but didn't wait for the mothership - it was flying over towards the battle, but was too far away. Hard to say if it really would have made a difference, but it definitely seems like attacking without it was a big mistake on his part. Again, seeing how fast it died, what makes anyone certain it would have helped at all? I grant you he attacked without a unit, an exepensive one, and at that point, it was dumb. But, it was evaporated in mere seconds by a fraction of the terran's force. I see no reason to believe it wouldn't have instantly died if he had waited on it. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
Splash damage from archons was suposedly removed however I played against a bot last night just to check and I was damaging multiple things at once with one archon shot (the aoe of the attack is probally just not as big as it was in sc1) So build a bunch of zeolots or stalkers combine it with the archons and leave one or 2 temps around for storm and rines and tanks should be no problem Probally wont work due to the cost of the unit but like said just an idea. | ||
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Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On May 04 2010 10:05 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: Really? Cause it pretty clearly got emp'd and gibbed in about 4 seconds. How would that have won the game, exactly? The mothership doesn't need to do damage it just needs to blachole and die, which would have won him the game. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 13:09 Half wrote: The mothership doesn't need to do damage it just needs to blachole and die, which would have won him the game. As tight as that terran ball was, i highly doubt he would have lost to vortex. | ||
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wonksaggin
United States73 Posts
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 14:56 wonksaggin wrote: Perhaps stealing his gas early on would delay his tech and give you ample time to counter this push. That's just my guess. It's not a push.. it's just a flexible open for T with a lot of options based on scouting. Can we please get over the idea that this is some kind of 8min marines + tank push? | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
This is what you've done so far trying to prove a point: - If two attack moving armies move towards eachother EMP will kick the shit out of everything the toss has. Toss sucks! - EMP will hit a clump of unit! It's AoE! What if a HT tries to feedback it, it's AoE and will always hit more than 1 unit! Toss sucks! - EMP can be spammed like all other spells, it's as useful as forcefield spam or whatever spell spam in battle! (Even when the toss has no shields or energy left!) - Observers will always be way infront of the Toss army and since Terran has Raven, observer dies. Cloak IS AWESOME! - You cant feedback PDD. Toss sucks! And it goes on. If you really intend to view the balance in the MU (Not between the two units because that's completely useless.) you'd look at what happens during the fights, not just "think" what's happening and expect every player out there to be fucking crap when doing it. And yes ofc this build that this OP is all about is a PUSH, if he doesnt push you will have complete reign over the map and you will kill him with whatever tech choice. And enough about this crap about Toss not having lategame strength, please just stop trolling.. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
Tested this build a few times vP and it works very well against any sort of early aggression due to the reactor constantly pumping marines (and even then you have excess resources). There is a very small timing window where any sort of cheese will wreck this build, but if you scout on 10 with your supply depot SCV you don't have to build the reactor on your barracks. Another nice thing is that, as pointed out early, at this point you have the three unit producing facilities for terran, two tech labs and one reactor. Any build is possible, be it teching hellions on the fac and swapping with the rax for a marau/hellion build, or going for banshee/viking/hellion/rine. (build another starport and put it on the reactor ofr increased viking output). I really, really like how much map control this build gives you. It also reduces the threat of DT harass, because who's going to go DT once they see ravens on the field. Suddenly balls of units look like a bad idea (possible HSM or siege) and anti-air will get mowed down by ridiculous amounts of marines. The only way I see countering this build is going heavy zeal/sentry as early as possible off 3 gates and containing the terran while you expand. Abuse force field to keep the T trapped in his base and back off when he's forced to go air heavy, tech to siege, etc. I absolutely love Nony's phoenix build and abuse the shit out of it whenever I play protoss, but in the event that phoenix go in your mineral line and take out your drones, just push as terran into their base with your superior ground force (if they force field the ramp just expand as terran, tech siege, and laugh as the raven gives vision up his ramp and your siege blow his shit to smitherines). Above all though, protect that Raven! Your air units are key to pushing up the ramp and giving vision in this build (I generally push when I get one raven, one banshee). | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 17:40 Kyuki wrote: Wow - I can't belive the way you are arguing your "HT's are worthless and ghosts are OP" case here WorkersOfTheWorld.. This is what you've done so far trying to prove a point: - If two attack moving armies move towards eachother EMP will kick the shit out of everything the toss has. Toss sucks! - EMP will hit a clump of unit! It's AoE! What if a HT tries to feedback it, it's AoE and will always hit more than 1 unit! Toss sucks! - EMP can be spammed like all other spells, it's as useful as forcefield spam or whatever spell spam in battle! (Even when the toss has no shields or energy left!) - Observers will always be way infront of the Toss army and since Terran has Raven, observer dies. Cloak IS AWESOME! - You cant feedback PDD. Toss sucks! And it goes on. If you really intend to view the balance in the MU (Not between the two units because that's completely useless.) you'd look at what happens during the fights, not just "think" what's happening and expect every player out there to be fucking crap when doing it. And yes ofc this build that this OP is all about is a PUSH, if he doesnt push you will have complete reign over the map and you will kill him with whatever tech choice. And enough about this crap about Toss not having lategame strength, please just stop trolling.. I never said it was a current issue. I think it's an up-coming issue. How many PvT matches have you seen in the last moth or more that lasted more than 15 mins? Most last aroud 8-10. We really have no idea what the MU is like late-game except for the few outliers i've been able to view and all of those have been toss losses if he hadn't already run away with the game from a timing push. I realize everyone here is going to say "Oh, but look at the toss owning T all day long in the tournaments." That's great, but long-term gameplay isn't going to be 7min timing push with gateway units, OP void rays, and the occasional immortal timing push. The trend is going to be toward longer games, macro games. That's something I don't think toss are comfortable with and I believe this open is a good example of why. Contrary to popular myths, we don't have the best t3 units. We don't have the best spells. We don't have the strongest end-game, at all. | ||
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
When you do this build at it hits midgame, your pushing out banshees and siegetanks with marines i just find that i start to float alot of minerals and lack gas, do you expand then? or pump more marines out form barrackes? Anyone got some more good replays with this build? | ||
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