EPTMy question is whether you guys think that the baneling bust is exclusively an all-in build or whether it can transition into something else reasonably smoothly. My experience is that the times it fails, it really fails =)
Zerg Standard Build Order Overview - Page 6
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Bosh
United States2 Posts
My question is whether you guys think that the baneling bust is exclusively an all-in build or whether it can transition into something else reasonably smoothly. My experience is that the times it fails, it really fails =) | ||
|
shiroinohito
United States38 Posts
 | ||
|
hox
United States59 Posts
| ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On May 04 2010 11:43 Ema wrote: Great stuff - thanks for keeping the OP up to date! Nice sig. Do you also walk without rhythm so you don't attract the worm? | ||
|
whs
United States10 Posts
| ||
|
townsend`
Canada54 Posts
| ||
|
Baerinho
Germany257 Posts
On May 04 2010 10:03 Bosh wrote: I find the baneling bust build to work just as well with a 13 pool, and the extra few seconds I think are often all the difference between getting stoned by helions, more marauders or whatever. For what it's worth, I'm currently #10 plat, and ZvT is by far my best matchup statistically. My question is whether you guys think that the baneling bust is exclusively an all-in build or whether it can transition into something else reasonably smoothly. My experience is that the times it fails, it really fails =) Have pretty much the same expierience, if i go baneling bust and he has a "simple" supply/rax wall-off its near auto win, if he defends somehow or has a factory/rax/rax or similar wall-off you didnt scout i am so far behind in economy its basicly an auto-loss | ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On May 04 2010 15:51 townsend` wrote: There is too much dune in the thread. 'Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife — chopping off what's incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here." ' | ||
|
HelloSon
United States456 Posts
On May 04 2010 10:03 Bosh wrote: I find the baneling bust build to work just as well with a 13 pool, and the extra few seconds I think are often all the difference between getting stoned by helions, more marauders or whatever. For what it's worth, I'm currently #10 plat, and ZvT is by far my best matchup statistically. My question is whether you guys think that the baneling bust is exclusively an all-in build or whether it can transition into something else reasonably smoothly. My experience is that the times it fails, it really fails =) can u upload any reps of this working against a decent player? i'm still having trouble getting this off and ZvT is my hardest matchup. | ||
|
Asil
Canada18 Posts
| ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On May 05 2010 04:13 Asil wrote: Are all of these strats still viable ever after all the patches? All the ones in the OP are post-patch, I believe, with the exception of a few from earlier tournaments that are still viable. | ||
|
Asil
Canada18 Posts
| ||
|
AtlasJQ
Canada138 Posts
It seems almost everyone is FEing now for zerg, especially vs a two gate toss. It holds the zealot pressure fine but then it dies to them tech switching into a fast void ray. 90% of my losses are coming against banshees or void rays and I really feel helpless to stop it. Static defenses are a total waste since they can just move around them and rapid teching to hydras or mutas leaves me open to the early immortal or bioball push. I just had a terran roll from a reaper harass into hellions into banshees. Each one is putting me on the defensive as I need to alter my build to compensate (speed for reapers), spine/roaches for hellions, and by the time the banshees come Im just off balance and screwed. Should I just stick to one base builds and try to rapid tech ala the dehilde build? All the FE builds seem to really leave me exposed to someone pulling a tech like that and just making two queens seems like a really poor excuse for actual tier 1/1.5 anti air. Let alone the slowing it does to me in having to make the 2nd queen, preventing my lair upgrade and costing me supply and minerals to do so. | ||
|
Snozzwangler
United States3 Posts
On May 05 2010 06:40 AtlasJQ wrote: I'm really getting discouraged with my zerg play lately. Admittedly Im no pro, around 1200 platinum, but it seems no matter who Im against I am being taken out by early air. Even when I know its coming the Void Ray is so powerful unless I've gone straight for anti air Im done in by it. It seems almost everyone is FEing now for zerg, especially vs a two gate toss. It holds the zealot pressure fine but then it dies to them tech switching into a fast void ray. 90% of my losses are coming against banshees or void rays and I really feel helpless to stop it. Static defenses are a total waste since they can just move around them and rapid teching to hydras or mutas leaves me open to the early immortal or bioball push. I just had a terran roll from a reaper harass into hellions into banshees. Each one is putting me on the defensive as I need to alter my build to compensate (speed for reapers), spine/roaches for hellions, and by the time the banshees come Im just off balance and screwed. Should I just stick to one base builds and try to rapid tech ala the dehilde build? All the FE builds seem to really leave me exposed to someone pulling a tech like that and just making two queens seems like a really poor excuse for actual tier 1/1.5 anti air. Let alone the slowing it does to me in having to make the 2nd queen, preventing my lair upgrade and costing me supply and minerals to do so. I posted a build earlier that I've tested a bit in gold league, and I find it works fairly well against quick tech to void rays/banshees. It allows you to get an expo up, and get lair tech quickly. 10/10 ol 10/10 extractor trick 14/18 hatch 14/18 extractor 14/18 pool 18/18 ol (hatchery & pool pops) 18/20 queen + lair 20/20 extractor trick (either zerglings to scout, or a drone) Defend against early tier 1 pressure with zerglings, spine crawlers, and your queen. If the protoss goes for heavy warp gate pressure, you can delay the lair, and instead get speedlings/spine crawlers and drop down a roach warren. | ||
|
qazqwezxc
Canada91 Posts
| ||
|
Chex
United States87 Posts
| ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On May 05 2010 10:56 qazqwezxc wrote: Hey guys I'm just starting to play Zerg as of recently (Used to be a big Terran lover but lack of constant pressure bugs me about humans.) Do you guys know when the timings of usually building drones or units? I usually never really know what to build vs zerg and it just ends up as either massing tier 1 units or insane amounts of unnecessary drones. When do you say to yourself, OK I got exactly 24 drones on the 8 mineral fields I should be OK. Or is it more of a ... I feel like i need more money... so ill just make more drones vs units? Well, Zerg droning is very different from the other races. There are a few factors you need to consider. With Spawn Larvae, you are capable of saturating a new expansion VERY quickly, so you often don't need to build up drones beyond saturation at your existing bases before you expand. You also have to consider that each time you build a drone, that's one less larvae you can use to build a combat unit. A huge part of Zerg play is just making the proper decision about when to drone and when to mass units. Beyond that I can't help too much, since it's such a situational decision. On May 05 2010 06:40 AtlasJQ wrote: I'm really getting discouraged with my zerg play lately. Admittedly Im no pro, around 1200 platinum, but it seems no matter who Im against I am being taken out by early air. Even when I know its coming the Void Ray is so powerful unless I've gone straight for anti air Im done in by it. It seems almost everyone is FEing now for zerg, especially vs a two gate toss. It holds the zealot pressure fine but then it dies to them tech switching into a fast void ray. 90% of my losses are coming against banshees or void rays and I really feel helpless to stop it. Static defenses are a total waste since they can just move around them and rapid teching to hydras or mutas leaves me open to the early immortal or bioball push. I just had a terran roll from a reaper harass into hellions into banshees. Each one is putting me on the defensive as I need to alter my build to compensate (speed for reapers), spine/roaches for hellions, and by the time the banshees come Im just off balance and screwed. Should I just stick to one base builds and try to rapid tech ala the dehilde build? All the FE builds seem to really leave me exposed to someone pulling a tech like that and just making two queens seems like a really poor excuse for actual tier 1/1.5 anti air. Let alone the slowing it does to me in having to make the 2nd queen, preventing my lair upgrade and costing me supply and minerals to do so. It sounds like scouting would help you a ton here, since you have to do out of your way to defend early air aggression sometimes. Against the Immortal push you probably should be getting Hydra's anyway. Most games I find that an FE into quick Lair after speedlings is just so useful and necessary. And don't discount some Spores or an extra Queen. It's not a permanent solution, but it can buy you the time to pump out some Hydra/Muta. | ||
|
Bloodwolf
Costa Rica32 Posts
| ||
|
FlipFantastic
United States21 Posts
drones up until 10 10 pool build another drone 10 overlord when the pool pops you should have exactly 300 for a set of 6 lings and a queen build 2 more dornes to harvest and start an extractor With my initial 6 i do my scouting and can harass a protoss or zerg. Even with a 10 pool terren will be walled off already, but i usually take a look to see if any supply depots are involved, if so, i'll start pumping out more lings while upgrading speed, collecting gas, and drop a baneling nest. The early queen is nice to either spam lings for a bling push (usually ends up being all-in) and she also is in plenty of time if there is any reaper harass. This build is fast enough to stop an 8 pool rush, too. The downside is if my initial harass is completely fail then im behind in economy slightlya dn have a hard time choosing to expand or tech. I suppose it depends on the situation as always. I'm a lowly gold league, for what its worth. | ||
|
MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On May 06 2010 05:12 FlipFantastic wrote: I stumbled into this one and think it works pretty well across the board drones up until 10 10 pool build another drone 10 overlord when the pool pops you should have exactly 300 for a set of 6 lings and a queen build 2 more dornes to harvest and start an extractor With my initial 6 i do my scouting and can harass a protoss or zerg. Even with a 10 pool terren will be walled off already, but i usually take a look to see if any supply depots are involved, if so, i'll start pumping out more lings while upgrading speed, collecting gas, and drop a baneling nest. The early queen is nice to either spam lings for a bling push (usually ends up being all-in) and she also is in plenty of time if there is any reaper harass. This build is fast enough to stop an 8 pool rush, too. The downside is if my initial harass is completely fail then im behind in economy slightlya dn have a hard time choosing to expand or tech. I suppose it depends on the situation as always. I'm a lowly gold league, for what its worth. You might want to give swapping the pool and the overlord a try. A 10 Overpool can work quite well, and doesn't leave you behind economically by much. You got: Drones to 10. 10 Overlord. Save minerals, 10 Spawning Pool. Drone up while the Pool is building. It'll allow you to get to 13-15 supply of drones, then you can pop the queen or 6 Lings or whatever you want pretty early when the Pool is done. Allows for some nice early pressure, and is very very good against really cheesy rushes. Of course, you can handle a lot of rushes with a more economical build with practice. | ||
| ||
