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On April 13 2010 11:11 BigOleDonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 10:45 datachild wrote:
LOL this is the funniest stuff I heard.
Learn to adapt and play the game. It is getting more balanced and Protoss has plenty of other issues they have to worry about.
The real funny stuff is how so many protoss keep posting this but yet mysteriously cannot seem to produce any replays of the terran winning versus this immortal timing build, without the protoss making huge mistakes to cost himself the game. It really doesn't seem like that tall of an order.
this. probably because the high level toss that rarely make mistakes rape face in PvT.
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On April 13 2010 09:25 PhiliBiRD wrote:
mezmerize if u wanna add me we can try some things out im rank 5 plat terran div 18.1700+ pts
philibird.hed
that goes for any1 if u want to practice TvP strats/or anything rele
also note brat.ok did a new TvP strat in zotac #7, marauder/marine with fast raven/medivac. ghost around 50 food. ravens nullifies observers and point defense drone is a good counter to stalkers not sure if it works against immortal. worked vs a player named chobo but im not familiar with him. its really hard to know if different strats actually work or if the players who they work against are messing up.
so.. 2 rax tech to raven? can you link :o
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On April 13 2010 11:09 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 11:07 Feefee wrote:
If a protoss stomps your marauder/medivac/marine bio mass with EMP by using FORCEFIELD abuse then you're doing something horribly wrong^^;. Last I checked EMP removed all energy from units and had a range of 10 (at least according to the sc2 data files and other people). Do you have 30 EMP's that all instantaneously and perfectly get off on every single unit on your screen immediately? No.
You're right, I don't. Any reasonable protoss army will be completely EMP'ed after 6 or so however. If you don't have that many then maybe you can target-EMP the immortals and/or sentries? Just a thought. I do however, always, get my EMP off perfectly. Has to do with the whole 10 range no travel time thing. I can safely say I have never failed to EMP a unit that I wanted to EMP.
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On April 13 2010 11:30 Feefee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 11:09 avilo wrote:On April 13 2010 11:07 Feefee wrote:
If a protoss stomps your marauder/medivac/marine bio mass with EMP by using FORCEFIELD abuse then you're doing something horribly wrong^^;. Last I checked EMP removed all energy from units and had a range of 10 (at least according to the sc2 data files and other people). Do you have 30 EMP's that all instantaneously and perfectly get off on every single unit on your screen immediately? No. You're right, I don't. Any reasonable protoss army will be completely EMP'ed after 6 or so however. If you don't have that many then maybe you can target-EMP the immortals and/or sentries? Just a thought. I do however, always, get my EMP off perfectly. Has to do with the whole 10 range no travel time thing. I can safely say I have never failed to EMP a unit that I wanted to EMP.
And do they care if they're 7+ immortals are EMP'd? not really. They're going to still roll you with those immortals+remaining units.
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''The Immortal problem'' .... The problem that won't die !
On a side note, Raven can be usefull. But has seen in Huk replays, it's really hard to counter ''early'' game. I tried siege tank but it's really hard to always have the upper hand in positioning etc..
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So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days.
Edit: also swapping to tanks isn't a good idea against protoss. With the blink ability it's like instantly having goons in melee range whenever you push out. Tied in with zealots and immortals mech play is just dumb in this match up and has been completely outdated.
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On April 13 2010 12:19 Mente wrote:
So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days.
I'd like to see some replays, but I'm going to guess that immortal drops will demolish your build. Protoss is too strong right now in terms of their options. Terran has to commit and protoss can just change it up however they want on the fly. =/
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Thank god for this thread. Seriously, since the last patch im like 1-10 against toss, and the only win was a bunker cheese on DO
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On April 13 2010 12:22 Floophead_III wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 12:19 Mente wrote:
So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days. I'd like to see some replays, but I'm going to guess that immortal drops will demolish your build. Protoss is too strong right now in terms of their options. Terran has to commit and protoss can just change it up however they want on the fly. =/
I tried these builds on maps where I had back doors. That's practically the same thing. I don't feel I'm too static or a warp prism is too threatening to begin with.
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On April 13 2010 12:54 Mente wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 12:22 Floophead_III wrote:On April 13 2010 12:19 Mente wrote:
So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days. I'd like to see some replays, but I'm going to guess that immortal drops will demolish your build. Protoss is too strong right now in terms of their options. Terran has to commit and protoss can just change it up however they want on the fly. =/ I tried these builds on maps where I had back doors. That's practically the same thing. I don't feel I'm too static or a warp prism is too threatening to begin with.
Replays needed because your idea looks no different than 2rax w/ ghosts or 2rax > tanks > ghosts
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On April 13 2010 11:30 Feefee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 11:09 avilo wrote:On April 13 2010 11:07 Feefee wrote:
If a protoss stomps your marauder/medivac/marine bio mass with EMP by using FORCEFIELD abuse then you're doing something horribly wrong^^;. Last I checked EMP removed all energy from units and had a range of 10 (at least according to the sc2 data files and other people). Do you have 30 EMP's that all instantaneously and perfectly get off on every single unit on your screen immediately? No. You're right, I don't. Any reasonable protoss army will be completely EMP'ed after 6 or so however. If you don't have that many then maybe you can target-EMP the immortals and/or sentries? Just a thought. I do however, always, get my EMP off perfectly. Has to do with the whole 10 range no travel time thing. I can safely say I have never failed to EMP a unit that I wanted to EMP.
The problem is-
1) You have to see it coming well in advance, and get your ghost ready.
2) You have to EMP him right before the battle. If you wait until the battle starts, the immortals will have already killed all your armored units
3) If you EMP too soon, the protoss can just pull back and wait 20 seconds for the shields to come back, while continuing to warp in reinforcements. Then attack again and now you can't emp.
EMP is powerful, but it's so hard to rely on. You basically need to do it perfectly or else you die. And this is all assuming that he doesn't just feedback your ghosts lol.
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The problem is you're spending 300/200 just to remove his shields once. It's such a massive investment and if he plays smart emp won't matter at all. It might keep you alive, but it won't let you get map control.
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On April 13 2010 13:11 Floophead_III wrote:
The problem is you're spending 300/200 just to remove his shields once. It's such a massive investment and if he plays smart emp won't matter at all. It might keep you alive, but it won't let you get map control.
yeah, that too. it's almost impossible to use EMP in the open map, when you're not sure where the battle is going to happen.
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On April 13 2010 13:00 imBLIND wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 12:54 Mente wrote:On April 13 2010 12:22 Floophead_III wrote:On April 13 2010 12:19 Mente wrote:
So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days. I'd like to see some replays, but I'm going to guess that immortal drops will demolish your build. Protoss is too strong right now in terms of their options. Terran has to commit and protoss can just change it up however they want on the fly. =/ I tried these builds on maps where I had back doors. That's practically the same thing. I don't feel I'm too static or a warp prism is too threatening to begin with. Replays needed because your idea looks no different than 2rax w/ ghosts or 2rax > tanks > ghosts
Siege expand into deep 6 has nothing to do with ghosts or 2 rax???
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On April 13 2010 13:23 Mente wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 13:00 imBLIND wrote:On April 13 2010 12:54 Mente wrote:On April 13 2010 12:22 Floophead_III wrote:On April 13 2010 12:19 Mente wrote:
So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days. I'd like to see some replays, but I'm going to guess that immortal drops will demolish your build. Protoss is too strong right now in terms of their options. Terran has to commit and protoss can just change it up however they want on the fly. =/ I tried these builds on maps where I had back doors. That's practically the same thing. I don't feel I'm too static or a warp prism is too threatening to begin with. Replays needed because your idea looks no different than 2rax w/ ghosts or 2rax > tanks > ghosts Siege expand into deep 6 has nothing to do with ghosts or 2 rax???
Replays are still needed because i honestly have no idea how you get away with a siege expand vs immortals.
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On April 13 2010 13:11 Floophead_III wrote:
The problem is you're spending 300/200 just to remove his shields once. It's such a massive investment and if he plays smart emp won't matter at all. It might keep you alive, but it won't let you get map control.
300/200 is less than the cost of two immortals.
And why is this hard to scout again?
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On April 13 2010 13:31 imBLIND wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 13:23 Mente wrote:On April 13 2010 13:00 imBLIND wrote:On April 13 2010 12:54 Mente wrote:On April 13 2010 12:22 Floophead_III wrote:On April 13 2010 12:19 Mente wrote:
So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days. I'd like to see some replays, but I'm going to guess that immortal drops will demolish your build. Protoss is too strong right now in terms of their options. Terran has to commit and protoss can just change it up however they want on the fly. =/ I tried these builds on maps where I had back doors. That's practically the same thing. I don't feel I'm too static or a warp prism is too threatening to begin with. Replays needed because your idea looks no different than 2rax w/ ghosts or 2rax > tanks > ghosts Siege expand into deep 6 has nothing to do with ghosts or 2 rax??? Replays are still needed because i honestly have no idea how you get away with a siege expand vs immortals.
I'll get you replays as soon as I can.
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On April 13 2010 15:08 Mente wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 13:31 imBLIND wrote:On April 13 2010 13:23 Mente wrote:On April 13 2010 13:00 imBLIND wrote:On April 13 2010 12:54 Mente wrote:On April 13 2010 12:22 Floophead_III wrote:On April 13 2010 12:19 Mente wrote:
So I've developed a deep6 like build and it seems to work fairly well to most immortal pushes. Early tank scares off harass until multiple immortals are out and by that time i have enough stuff to walk from my base to his base and just keep massing.
Also banshee play is still extremely reliable. Reapers suck against protoss. I haven't seen a legitimate way other than rax before depot of getting reapers out in time to do serious enough damage to keep them in their base.
Haven't had the opportunity to play around with a lot of builds though as most assholes are picking random these days. I'd like to see some replays, but I'm going to guess that immortal drops will demolish your build. Protoss is too strong right now in terms of their options. Terran has to commit and protoss can just change it up however they want on the fly. =/ I tried these builds on maps where I had back doors. That's practically the same thing. I don't feel I'm too static or a warp prism is too threatening to begin with. Replays needed because your idea looks no different than 2rax w/ ghosts or 2rax > tanks > ghosts Siege expand into deep 6 has nothing to do with ghosts or 2 rax??? Replays are still needed because i honestly have no idea how you get away with a siege expand vs immortals. I'll get you replays as soon as I can.
Yes, plz show me how the heck you siege expand successfully. The only maps I've been able to it on are Kulas (using the backdoor expo) and LT (because you actually can cover your nat choke from a cliff.)
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On April 13 2010 13:55 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 13:11 Floophead_III wrote:
The problem is you're spending 300/200 just to remove his shields once. It's such a massive investment and if he plays smart emp won't matter at all. It might keep you alive, but it won't let you get map control. 300/200 is less than the cost of two immortals. And why is this hard to scout again?
you missed the entire point of this whole thread. scouting is far from even being remotely close to the reason why we are having trouble.
watch a standard replay of toss immortal push vs terran. at the 8 minute mark. look at "money spending" in the top left drop down tab. terran has spent a crapload more money into upgrades than toss has. and this is just to have a decent chance, and as they said, if u mess up your EMP or he knows how to micro(spreads out immortals/sentry) you really have no chance. cuz now you need even more ghosts. not to mention he has a stronger army because of the money spent upgrading.
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EPT
