On April 03 2010 01:51 depthsofchaos wrote: I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
Are you serious? Get out... You know that the Ultralisk CANNOT be slowed by the marauders because it's massive. You do not have the right to have a beta key, and that's if you actually have one if you are not going to help balance the game. I hope I was being trolled...
That replay about that PvT Marauder Rush being stopped is pretty impressive. And albeit the racks was delayed by around 10 seconds on faster, the protoss stopped making units from time to time because of not being used to the build. This is powerful, but not so powerful that it cannot be stopped by a good player.
Bad trolling mr, at least back up your bullshit. Ultras can't catch up to marauders with stim before they die even tho they can't be slowed which I know (without a beta key). Think I'm lying just for fun?
OMFG! This video clearly shows how maradeurs are overpowered. I thought that they had slight advantage. But this is too much... and they cost only 25 gas.
Waaaat da hel iz zat???? Where are you lookin' blizs?
How does Marauders killing Ultralisks prove they are OP? Pretty sure Marauder is suppose to counter Ultras. And the only reason that mass of Hydras died is because his opponent made a key mistake at a bad time. He had all his Hydras on move left instead of attack-move and the vast majority of them died without even attacking or retreating. Just walking past the marauders in attack range.
Maybe marauder is OP. But this 5mins of this game does not prove it at all imo.
Hey idiot, how on earth 1.5 tier pure ground unit supposed to counter high tech pure ground units which are way way more expensive 25 vs 200 gas? are you saying terrans must win all ground armies with only one cheap unit. You definitely don't know what is balance. Please refer to my previous post where I proved why maradeurs are overpowered. I am not gonna explain it again.
5 mins of this game a very good example. We see it everywhere. Why do you think terrans spam maradeurs in every matchup?
Zealots and Zerglings countered Ultras in SC1.
LOL. YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED YOU KNOW THAT? Fully upgraded ultras have 7 armor, 26 damage, 400 HP Fully upgraded lings have 35 hp, 3 armor, 8 damage Ultra 2-hits a ling and attacks very fast in a fight a ling does ONE DAMAGE to an ultra. 400+ hits needed to kill just one ultra, unless you have a complete surround with like lings vs only 1 ultra an ultra will destroy lings. if you had like 4-5 ultras, you would need at about 100 lings to counter, and that might not even be enough. same thing with zlots, you have obviously never played BW PvZ or sucked at it so much you dont understand the MU at all. zlots dont do shit to ultras, its archons, storm, reavers and goons that do the damage, the zlots just tank for those more expensive units. in case you still dont get it, 1 fully upgraded zlot does 8 damage to a fully upgraded ultra. 50+ hits to kill if you account for regeneration. ultra kills a zlot with only 56 damage taken.
On April 04 2010 13:07 SoFFacet wrote: Serious question: sans Marauder spam, what can Terran do vs Protoss? All my rines always get raped by collosi or storm. All metal raped by Immortals. All Air raped by stalkers or storm. It always feels like Toss can A-move me at any time, whereas I always have to have all my units positioned correctly, make sure they fire at the correct things, use their abilities at the correct times and places, etc, and even then probably still get raped by an equal food Toss army + at most 10 mouse clicks.
ya when you move into late game it can get hard lots micro from both sides needed to win. The right storm is GG but the right emps on HT can be GG . Like really late game toss Terran is all about who micros the ghost or HT better lol oh and the terran needs to make sure to take out the colos with viks or he will still lose even if he micros better.
As far as EMP vs Storm late game goes, Terran is at a large disadvantage. In order to know where you're going to need to EMP to even hit the templar, you need to scan (while the protoss will have an observer with them and likely another trying to follow your army). In addition, assuming equal skill, the protoss can simply feedback a ghost before it gets an EMP off. Hell, I've had toss players bringing templar solo to my natural to try to pick off as many ghosts as they can before I move out. =P
Yes. A lot of people overestimate ghosts versus templar because a protoss will almost always have an observer following terran's army around... so it is generally a lot easier to feedback a ghost before a ghost can EMP templar
I think we need marauders defense to go down so Lings/units actually do damage to them, and gas up to 50. Maybe damage down abit too. Basically make them a unit that is good, but not so good that terrans dont even build anything else, like they are right now.
Is it just me, when I first heard of Marauders in SC2 (before beta was out).. I assumed they were going to be just a simple slowing unit, while the MARINES were the "damage-dealer".. So basically, the marauders slow, and do small damage, but the marines do the large damage. That is what I assumed their role was going to be, not the reverse.. I think that is how it should be.
Almost like how Sentries are weaker than stalkers, but still do decent damage, and provide that extra "edge" (ie forcefield/shield vs marauders slow).. Not how Marauders really are which are stronger than 2 stalkers combined.
On April 04 2010 13:31 dNo_O wrote: if they lowered how long the slow lasted wouldn't that fix this? you couldn't just run 1 marauder around 3 zealots if he didn't attack faster than slow wears off... right?
On April 04 2010 14:31 Sadistx wrote: Tank vs Marauder balance really has to be adjusted. It's pretty retarded that a tier 1.5 (infantry!) has 83% of the hp of a tier 2 unit for 20% of the gas cost. I have raped tank heavy terran armies by splitting into 3-4 marauder groups and 1-shotting their tanks before they can get a 2nd volley off and simply a-moving the rest of the army.
Plus tanks ability needs to be researched.
My personal proposition:
Reduce marauder hp to 110 or 100, and reduce stim damage to 10 if 100, and to 15 if 110. Reduce tank gas cost to 100 or increase hp to 175 or 200.
On April 04 2010 13:57 MeProU_Kor wrote: a stalker wins a 1n1 fight usually or am i wrong? my stalkers always won with dunno... red HP bar left and shield points go so fast to max again that it isnt a real problem.
You shouldn't compare them one to one. It doesn't happen in the game. Please check my previous post where it's clear that maradeurs are 6 times more efficient than stalkers.
It's not clear, because you ignored things like stim cost and research time, unit hp pool and timings. When talking about balance you can't hold other things ceteris paribus.
Tanks rape Marauders. I allways laugh when a Terran goes MM or straight Marauders VS a mech build terran go straight tanks Wall up siege expand hit the crit. # of tanks with viks spotter and watch the marauders go splat before they even get close. Oh and keep them in 3 controll groups and siege them a bit apart from each other.
Remeber this is a support unit so you ethier need alot of them or with back up ground force if you are moving out in small #'s it is meant to die its a support unit not a front line takes hits fighter.
Also for those Nerfs yaaaaa no thats way to much and uncalled for. Again only thing you need to do is make the units that meant to counter it counter it. Just make zealots and Zerglings immune to slow. Any dmg nerf or stim nerf will hurt it wayyyy to much late game. Where as the immune to slow will fix it early game but still leave it same late game cause speedlings and charge zealots anyways.
On April 03 2010 01:51 depthsofchaos wrote: I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
Are you serious? Get out... You know that the Ultralisk CANNOT be slowed by the marauders because it's massive. You do not have the right to have a beta key, and that's if you actually have one if you are not going to help balance the game. I hope I was being trolled...
That replay about that PvT Marauder Rush being stopped is pretty impressive. And albeit the racks was delayed by around 10 seconds on faster, the protoss stopped making units from time to time because of not being used to the build. This is powerful, but not so powerful that it cannot be stopped by a good player.
Bad trolling mr, at least back up your bullshit. Ultras can't catch up to marauders with stim before they die even tho they can't be slowed which I know (without a beta key). Think I'm lying just for fun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gl7a1CDQHI
OMFG! This video clearly shows how maradeurs are overpowered. I thought that they had slight advantage. But this is too much... and they cost only 25 gas.
Waaaat da hel iz zat???? Where are you lookin' blizs?
How does Marauders killing Ultralisks prove they are OP? Pretty sure Marauder is suppose to counter Ultras. And the only reason that mass of Hydras died is because his opponent made a key mistake at a bad time. He had all his Hydras on move left instead of attack-move and the vast majority of them died without even attacking or retreating. Just walking past the marauders in attack range.
Maybe marauder is OP. But this 5mins of this game does not prove it at all imo.
Hey idiot, how on earth 1.5 tier pure ground unit supposed to counter high tech pure ground units which are way way more expensive 25 vs 200 gas? are you saying terrans must win all ground armies with only one cheap unit. You definitely don't know what is balance. Please refer to my previous post where I proved why maradeurs are overpowered. I am not gonna explain it again.
5 mins of this game a very good example. We see it everywhere. Why do you think terrans spam maradeurs in every matchup?
Zealots and Zerglings countered Ultras in SC1.
LOL. YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED YOU KNOW THAT? Fully upgraded ultras have 6 armor, 29 damage, 400 HP Fully upgraded lings have 35 hp, 3 armor, 8 damage Ultra 2-hits a ling and attacks very fast in a fight a ling does Two DAMAGE to an ultra. 200+ hits needed to kill just one ultra, unless you have a complete surround with like lings vs only 1 ultra an ultra will destroy lings. if you had like 4-5 ultras, you would need at about 35 lings to counter, and that will be enough. same thing with zlots, you have obviously never played BW PvZ or sucked at it so much you dont understand the MU at all. zlots do decent damage to ultras, its archons, storm, reavers and goons that do the good damage, the zlots just tank for those more expensive units. I mean 4 ultras get killed by twelve zealots with decent micro. in case you still dont get it, 1 fully upgraded zlot does 10 damage to a fully upgraded ultra. 40+ hits to kill if you account for regeneration. ultra kills a zlot with only 48 damage taken with full ups, but 88 damage taken with no ups.
OMG FUCKING NO WAI! I DIDN'T EVEN NOE THAT ULTRAS HAD +2 AMOR!
Seriously calm down and put your dick away. Obviously ultras tank lings hard with all their ups, but lings are cost effective against them in a neutral upgrade fight (Full ups, counting adrenal glands and chit plating), mostly because it takes a while for the ultralisk to lower the DPS of ten zerglings.
Zealots do a little worse. This is still just for vanilla fights, which do apply in real life situations, considering the +2 armor upgrade takes a while.
Edit: I fixed your numbers and here are some statistics. No upgrades Zerglings vs Ultra (Great Surround) 7 lings Zerglings vs Ultra (Decent Surround) 8 lings Zealots vs Ultra 3 zlots
Full upgrades Zerglings vs Ultra (Great Surround) 9 lings Zerglings vs Ultra (Decent Surround) 10 lings Zealots vs Ultra 4 zlots
So chit plating helps quite a bit, making the supply need for zerglings and zealots quite high, but still not putting it out of reach to beat the ultras entirely.
Just make it to where Marauders' slow only affect armored units. Also, reducing either of the following (pick 1 or 2)
-range down to 5 from 6 -HP down by 10 (they already come with 1 armor) -Base damage down by 2 to 8/10 from 10/10 -Increase stim health cost to 25 from 20
+Also Increase gas cost to 50 from 25
Another option could be to reword the effects of stim pack. Stim pack makes the unit twice as good for a measly health cost, turning your 200 food army into an army with the DPS of a ~300 food army.
As stated before dozens of times in this post, Marauder is really bread and butter for Terran right now because it's rediculously cost efficient and great all around combat unit which will destroy any other ground unit food for food, mineral for mineral, and gas for gas. They have good HP, great damage, and you can micro them pretty easy.
4 zerglings? Marauder wins. 1 hydra? marauder wins. 1 roach? marauder wins. 1 zealot, stalker? marauder wins. 1 immortal? 3marauders win. 1 colossus? 3 marauders win. 1 Ultra (without speed)? 3 marauders win. Just shoot stim and run. Storm, feedback? -> EMP surrounding melee units? fight in a choke, tank and get healed by medivacs.
Only ground combo I could think could stand toe to toe with them are well placed siege tanks, and ultralisks with hydra or ling support. It's too good, too cost efficient, and fairly easy to micromanage.
On April 04 2010 16:29 Landsoul wrote: Just make it to where Marauders' slow only affect armored units. Also, reducing either of the following (pick 1 or 2)
-range down to 5 from 6 -HP down by 10 (they already come with 1 armor) -Base damage down by 2 to 8/10 from 10/10 -Increase stim health cost to 25 from 20
+Also Increase gas cost to 50 from 25
Another option could be to reword the effects of stim pack. Stim pack makes the unit twice as good for a measly health cost, turning your 200 food army into an army with the DPS of a ~300 food army.
As stated before dozens of times in this post, Marauder is really bread and butter for Terran right now because it's rediculously cost efficient and great all around combat unit which will destroy any other ground unit food for food, mineral for mineral, and gas for gas. They have good HP, great damage, and you can micro them pretty easy.
4 zerglings? Marauder wins. 1 hydra? marauder wins. 1 roach? marauder wins. 1 zealot, stalker? marauder wins. 1 immortal? 3marauders win. 1 colossus? 3 marauders win. 1 Ultra (without speed)? 3 marauders win. Just shoot stim and run. Storm, feedback? -> EMP surrounding melee units? fight in a choke, tank and get healed by medivacs.
Only ground combo I could think could stand toe to toe with them are well placed siege tanks, and ultralisks with hydra or ling support. It's too good, too cost efficient, and fairly easy to micromanage.
Don't forget to buff smth else if nerfing maradeurs, because rest of terran ground army sux
Not to mention that colossus require 200 gas (8 Maradeurs!)
On April 04 2010 16:29 Landsoul wrote: Just make it to where Marauders' slow only affect armored units. Also, reducing either of the following (pick 1 or 2)
-range down to 5 from 6 -HP down by 10 (they already come with 1 armor) -Base damage down by 2 to 8/10 from 10/10 -Increase stim health cost to 25 from 20
+Also Increase gas cost to 50 from 25
Another option could be to reword the effects of stim pack. Stim pack makes the unit twice as good for a measly health cost, turning your 200 food army into an army with the DPS of a ~300 food army.
As stated before dozens of times in this post, Marauder is really bread and butter for Terran right now because it's rediculously cost efficient and great all around combat unit which will destroy any other ground unit food for food, mineral for mineral, and gas for gas. They have good HP, great damage, and you can micro them pretty easy.
4 zerglings? Marauder wins. 1 hydra? marauder wins. 1 roach? marauder wins. 1 zealot, stalker? marauder wins. 1 immortal? 3marauders win. 1 colossus? 3 marauders win. 1 Ultra (without speed)? 3 marauders win. Just shoot stim and run. Storm, feedback? -> EMP surrounding melee units? fight in a choke, tank and get healed by medivacs.
Only ground combo I could think could stand toe to toe with them are well placed siege tanks, and ultralisks with hydra or ling support. It's too good, too cost efficient, and fairly easy to micromanage.
Good with first line but any other Nerf would kill terran ground army Marauders do less dmg then Rines on none armored targets stimed or not. Only thing that makes Marauders OP is they slow the thing that should counter them the sec you change that it fixes them.
also 1 colo > 3 marauders 1 Zealot , Stalker > marauder 1 ultra > 3 Marauders 1 roach? marauder wins its the counter to the roachs ... 4 zerglings? Marauder wins just like Rines are counter immortals or Hydras but you need more of them to couter those units. Even tho they are made to i don't think rines counter hydras they get riped up : P
Not sure on others think hydra and immortal would win
Tanks rape Marauders. I allways laugh when a Terran goes MM or straight Marauders VS a mech build terran go straight tanks Wall up siege expand hit the crit. # of tanks with viks spotter
Fact + tank + tech lab + siege is how many marauders worth? Pretty sure there's a timing window when he can just walk up the ramp and straight up rape everything you have if you tech like that, unless you get bunkers or something.
Tanks rape Marauders. I allways laugh when a Terran goes MM or straight Marauders VS a mech build terran go straight tanks Wall up siege expand hit the crit. # of tanks with viks spotter
Fact + tank + tech lab + siege is how many marauders worth? Pretty sure there's a timing window when he can just walk up the ramp and straight up rape everything you have if you tech like that, unless you get bunkers or something.
1 bunker and wall in and lol at him as they all die expand when you have a couple of tanks lol when he trys to take it and his stuff goes boom ! Extra mins into Turrents and rines. rines for that extrz meat shield but not needed or hellions.
Fact Expo in TvT is always tricky because you have to prepare vs two completely opposite strategies, Marauder bust and 2port Banshee. To be safe vs both you need 3 turrets per mineral line, a bunker at the mutual choke, 3+ tanks behind that bunker, and a swarm of marines and a turret to guard those tanks. Scanning their base once at a critical time to see whats up so you can cut corners on what looks less likely to hit first is usually the only way to pull through.
On April 03 2010 01:51 depthsofchaos wrote: I think the best solution would be slowing them down, why would they have the same speed as marine. This would remove their crazy hit and run ability that destroys anything without a loss (just seen a replay where 6 marauder killed 7 full armored ultralisk without any of them dying, it just felt really stupid). This would allow zealots to catch up sometimes and make force field an option against them.
Are you serious? Get out... You know that the Ultralisk CANNOT be slowed by the marauders because it's massive. You do not have the right to have a beta key, and that's if you actually have one if you are not going to help balance the game. I hope I was being trolled...
That replay about that PvT Marauder Rush being stopped is pretty impressive. And albeit the racks was delayed by around 10 seconds on faster, the protoss stopped making units from time to time because of not being used to the build. This is powerful, but not so powerful that it cannot be stopped by a good player.
Bad trolling mr, at least back up your bullshit. Ultras can't catch up to marauders with stim before they die even tho they can't be slowed which I know (without a beta key). Think I'm lying just for fun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gl7a1CDQHI
OMFG! This video clearly shows how maradeurs are overpowered. I thought that they had slight advantage. But this is too much... and they cost only 25 gas.
Waaaat da hel iz zat???? Where are you lookin' blizs?
How does Marauders killing Ultralisks prove they are OP? Pretty sure Marauder is suppose to counter Ultras. And the only reason that mass of Hydras died is because his opponent made a key mistake at a bad time. He had all his Hydras on move left instead of attack-move and the vast majority of them died without even attacking or retreating. Just walking past the marauders in attack range.
Maybe marauder is OP. But this 5mins of this game does not prove it at all imo.
Hey idiot, how on earth 1.5 tier pure ground unit supposed to counter high tech pure ground units which are way way more expensive 25 vs 200 gas? are you saying terrans must win all ground armies with only one cheap unit. You definitely don't know what is balance. Please refer to my previous post where I proved why maradeurs are overpowered. I am not gonna explain it again.
5 mins of this game a very good example. We see it everywhere. Why do you think terrans spam maradeurs in every matchup?
Zealots and Zerglings countered Ultras in SC1.
LOL. YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED YOU KNOW THAT? Fully upgraded ultras have 6 armor, 29 damage, 400 HP Fully upgraded lings have 35 hp, 3 armor, 8 damage Ultra 2-hits a ling and attacks very fast in a fight a ling does Two DAMAGE to an ultra. 200+ hits needed to kill just one ultra, unless you have a complete surround with like lings vs only 1 ultra an ultra will destroy lings. if you had like 4-5 ultras, you would need at about 35 lings to counter, and that will be enough. same thing with zlots, you have obviously never played BW PvZ or sucked at it so much you dont understand the MU at all. zlots do decent damage to ultras, its archons, storm, reavers and goons that do the good damage, the zlots just tank for those more expensive units. I mean 4 ultras get killed by twelve zealots with decent micro. in case you still dont get it, 1 fully upgraded zlot does 10 damage to a fully upgraded ultra. 40+ hits to kill if you account for regeneration. ultra kills a zlot with only 48 damage taken with full ups, but 88 damage taken with no ups.
OMG FUCKING NO WAI! I DIDN'T EVEN NOE THAT ULTRAS HAD +2 AMOR!
Seriously calm down and put your dick away. Obviously ultras tank lings hard with all their ups, but lings are cost effective against them in a neutral upgrade fight (Full ups, counting adrenal glands and chit plating), mostly because it takes a while for the ultralisk to lower the DPS of ten zerglings.
Zealots do a little worse. This is still just for vanilla fights, which do apply in real life situations, considering the +2 armor upgrade takes a while.
Edit: I fixed your numbers and here are some statistics. No upgrades Zerglings vs Ultra (Great Surround) 7 lings Zerglings vs Ultra (Decent Surround) 8 lings Zealots vs Ultra 3 zlots
Full upgrades Zerglings vs Ultra (Great Surround) 9 lings Zerglings vs Ultra (Decent Surround) 10 lings Zealots vs Ultra 4 zlots
So chit plating helps quite a bit, making the supply need for zerglings and zealots quite high, but still not putting it out of reach to beat the ultras entirely.
On April 04 2010 16:29 Landsoul wrote: Just make it to where Marauders' slow only affect armored units. Also, reducing either of the following (pick 1 or 2)
-range down to 5 from 6 -HP down by 10 (they already come with 1 armor) -Base damage down by 2 to 8/10 from 10/10 -Increase stim health cost to 25 from 20
+Also Increase gas cost to 50 from 25
Another option could be to reword the effects of stim pack. Stim pack makes the unit twice as good for a measly health cost, turning your 200 food army into an army with the DPS of a ~300 food army.
As stated before dozens of times in this post, Marauder is really bread and butter for Terran right now because it's rediculously cost efficient and great all around combat unit which will destroy any other ground unit food for food, mineral for mineral, and gas for gas. They have good HP, great damage, and you can micro them pretty easy.
4 zerglings? Marauder wins. 1 hydra? marauder wins. 1 roach? marauder wins. 1 zealot, stalker? marauder wins. 1 immortal? 3marauders win. 1 colossus? 3 marauders win. 1 Ultra (without speed)? 3 marauders win. Just shoot stim and run. Storm, feedback? -> EMP surrounding melee units? fight in a choke, tank and get healed by medivacs.
Only ground combo I could think could stand toe to toe with them are well placed siege tanks, and ultralisks with hydra or ling support. It's too good, too cost efficient, and fairly easy to micromanage.
Don't forget to buff smth else if nerfing maradeurs, because rest of terran ground army sux
Not to mention that colossus require 200 gas (8 Maradeurs!)
And which Terran ground unit sucks against toss? Stop just saying they suck and give us explanations
On April 04 2010 16:29 Landsoul wrote: Just make it to where Marauders' slow only affect armored units. Also, reducing either of the following (pick 1 or 2)
-range down to 5 from 6 -HP down by 10 (they already come with 1 armor) -Base damage down by 2 to 8/10 from 10/10 -Increase stim health cost to 25 from 20
+Also Increase gas cost to 50 from 25
Another option could be to reword the effects of stim pack. Stim pack makes the unit twice as good for a measly health cost, turning your 200 food army into an army with the DPS of a ~300 food army.
As stated before dozens of times in this post, Marauder is really bread and butter for Terran right now because it's rediculously cost efficient and great all around combat unit which will destroy any other ground unit food for food, mineral for mineral, and gas for gas. They have good HP, great damage, and you can micro them pretty easy.
4 zerglings? Marauder wins. 1 hydra? marauder wins. 1 roach? marauder wins. 1 zealot, stalker? marauder wins. 1 immortal? 3marauders win. 1 colossus? 3 marauders win. 1 Ultra (without speed)? 3 marauders win. Just shoot stim and run. Storm, feedback? -> EMP surrounding melee units? fight in a choke, tank and get healed by medivacs.
Only ground combo I could think could stand toe to toe with them are well placed siege tanks, and ultralisks with hydra or ling support. It's too good, too cost efficient, and fairly easy to micromanage.
Don't forget to buff smth else if nerfing maradeurs, because rest of terran ground army sux
Not to mention that colossus require 200 gas (8 Maradeurs!)
And which Terran ground unit sucks against toss? Stop just saying they suck and give us explanations
Marines poor to mediocre against all units in TvP. Zealots tear them since kiting is nowhere near 100% viable; stalkers 4-shot them and are faster with greater range; sentries aren't really meant to be fighting units but they can still kill marines; dark templars 1 hit kill marines w/o upgrades; colossi devastate marines; immortals 2-shot marines. Void rays can outmicro marines if both are in small numbers. For marines to perform well, medivac, stim, and other upgrades are almost a necessity, and even then they have to severely outnumber the opponent (this is TvP)
Reapers are great for harass, but not fit at all for a main army composition
Ghosts are great for EMP, but we're talking about ground battles units and not casters, which a ghost essentially is.
Marauders are the staple of the T army; they're pretty much like the dragoon of sc bw. I'm not saying the units are similar; rather, I'm saying that, dragoons are the staple of the P army in SCBW, and if people call for nerfing the dragoon Ps will have strong opinions to share about it. Marauders are the staple of the Terran army, and nerfing marauders will have significant impact on all terran matchups.
It's like the roach. I have read more threads from every type of player who believe that roaches are imba (all races). But there came about like 3~5 threads that talk about why roaches are important and they shouldn't be nerfed. Marauders are as important to terrans as of now as roaches are to the zerg, and nerfing it would probably extremify the balances if no appropriate improvements are made in other areas.
Solution is easy: Making Force Field do your units inmune to slow would be a posibility.
If you complain about OP rush, get a hold on yourselves, a rush is a rush, no matter what. I mean, in BW, terran had to turtleshield as soon as possible because the most viable strategy was going mech. Terrans couldn't do anything viable against a fast attack from protoss if they didn't do this.
¿Ways to counter this marauder rush? SCOUTING ASAP. If you have to turtle this time (cannons works great early game against marauders 1cannon>>>2marauders, more if it's in cliff) then .don't complain and do it, terrans had to in BW and this is a completly different game.
If you get past that rush (you should easily), mix army, an Immortal won't save you, they will focus it. Besides, by the time he gets stimpack, you should have a propper army, sentrys too. I have seen matches were the protoss player does hallucinations and it works great, it can attract the EMP, saving your units, and they serve as meat shield for marauders, like zealots do. A terran can't micro easily against zealots and stalkers together if you know what you are doing.
Reaserching blink early is great too, micro with it, put your wounded units behind the others as fast as you can with this ability to maximize your army eficiency.
The game is still beta, is easier to say an unit is broken before trying to actually counter it.
If you don't understand something, sorry, english is not my mother language .
On April 04 2010 16:29 Landsoul wrote: Just make it to where Marauders' slow only affect armored units. Also, reducing either of the following (pick 1 or 2)
-range down to 5 from 6 -HP down by 10 (they already come with 1 armor) -Base damage down by 2 to 8/10 from 10/10 -Increase stim health cost to 25 from 20
+Also Increase gas cost to 50 from 25
Another option could be to reword the effects of stim pack. Stim pack makes the unit twice as good for a measly health cost, turning your 200 food army into an army with the DPS of a ~300 food army.
As stated before dozens of times in this post, Marauder is really bread and butter for Terran right now because it's rediculously cost efficient and great all around combat unit which will destroy any other ground unit food for food, mineral for mineral, and gas for gas. They have good HP, great damage, and you can micro them pretty easy.
4 zerglings? Marauder wins. 1 hydra? marauder wins. 1 roach? marauder wins. 1 zealot, stalker? marauder wins. 1 immortal? 3marauders win. 1 colossus? 3 marauders win. 1 Ultra (without speed)? 3 marauders win. Just shoot stim and run. Storm, feedback? -> EMP surrounding melee units? fight in a choke, tank and get healed by medivacs.
Only ground combo I could think could stand toe to toe with them are well placed siege tanks, and ultralisks with hydra or ling support. It's too good, too cost efficient, and fairly easy to micromanage.
Don't forget to buff smth else if nerfing maradeurs, because rest of terran ground army sux
Not to mention that colossus require 200 gas (8 Maradeurs!)
And which Terran ground unit sucks against toss? Stop just saying they suck and give us explanations
Marines poor to mediocre against all units in TvP. Zealots tear them since kiting is nowhere near 100% viable; stalkers 4-shot them and are faster with greater range; sentries aren't really meant to be fighting units but they can still kill marines; dark templars 1 hit kill marines w/o upgrades; colossi devastate marines; immortals 2-shot marines. Void rays can outmicro marines if both are in small numbers. For marines to perform well, medivac, stim, and other upgrades are almost a necessity, and even then they have to severely outnumber the opponent (this is TvP)
Reapers are great for harass, but not fit at all for a main army composition
Ghosts are great for EMP, but we're talking about ground battles units and not casters, which a ghost essentially is.
Marauders are the staple of the T army; they're pretty much like the dragoon of sc bw. I'm not saying the units are similar; rather, I'm saying that, dragoons are the staple of the P army in SCBW, and if people call for nerfing the dragoon Ps will have strong opinions to share about it. Marauders are the staple of the Terran army, and nerfing marauders will have significant impact on all terran matchups.
It's like the roach. I have read more threads from every type of player who believe that roaches are imba (all races). But there came about like 3~5 threads that talk about why roaches are important and they shouldn't be nerfed. Marauders are as important to terrans as of now as roaches are to the zerg, and nerfing it would probably extremify the balances if no appropriate improvements are made in other areas.
So much wrong info in this post. Stalkers take 5 hits to kill marines. Immortals take 3. "Void rays can outmicro marines." Why the hell would that situation even occur, and no, they really can't. A handful of marines handles a voidray fine.
Marauders are not the dragoons of SC2. Do goons have stim? Do goons slow their targets? Do goons cost 100/25? Marauders have too much going for them right now. Notice how protoss players in BW don't make 100% goons. Goons are very versatile early, but you can't just make goons. People actually are making JUST marauders, and it's working. They just need some nerfs.
EPT
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