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Since I do not have a beta key yet I have quite some time for theorycrafting.
I know it doesn't looks too good to make another thread in the strategy section, especially because I do not even have a key. Moderatores are of course free to move the thread or attach it or even close it when it is not suitable.
But I think(hope) my thoughts are worth sharing.
Anyway I have thought alot about the MULE and the way it should be used / how it is favored over getting scvs.
We all should have figured out by now that MULEs are badass and that the target should be to get them out as soon as possible. This means to have an optimal eco build (not including 13/14 CC - which very likely would be the strongest eco build, but very unlikely to survive yet*) would be a rush to OC without cutting SCVs. That means Depot - Rax - OC (make sure you have 150 minerals saved up as soon as your rax is finished) There might be builds where you do not have 150 minerals saved up, because you added a refinery or a second rax or whatever, then it's probably better to build another SCV. (take in mind I only talk about strong eco builds that will not cut scvs for a faster rush early on)
Even tho OC instantly after the rax is finished gets you the most minerals, it's not that big of a deal if you build another scv first. An SCV has a building time of 17, which means you will lose ((17 - time you would need to wait for 150minerals)seconds of MULE) - (50 seconds of SCV)** While when you wait for the 150 minerals the time lost would eventually add up (your first SCV is late means your 2nd is late too which means your 3rd is late and so on).
In a nutshell upgrade to OC asap, but do not cut SCVs for it. Your CC must be producing/upgrading non-stop for an optimal eco. When you do not have 150 minerals when your last SCV is finished, you should build another one. (at least for a long term)
Keep in mind that the longer you wait for the OC, the more expensive it gets tho. (opportunity costs)
This in mind brings me to the next question: How should a terran act when he's expanding. As you all know, expanding at the minerals is always better than lifting econ-wise. When you still build your CC inbase so you can lift it (because it's safety), you should upgrade to OC first. Even before you lift your CC to the natural. Why that? Because building the OC first is better than building SCVs first. And when I'm not totally wrong, the OC builds up energy while being lifted, therefore you kinda get minerals while flying already. When you starving for vespine, you might want to lift your CC before getting OC tho. Also if you have like a shitload of SCVs for maynard it might be better to lift the CC before getting OC, too.***
There is also another fact i want to share which applies to every race, and has nothing to do withe the MULE: Up to 16 SCVs it doesn't matter how many SCVs you have for the mineral/SCV-ratio, or in other words, up to 2 SCVs per patch they will work 100%. That means unless you have more than 16 SCVs (with 8 blocks) at minerals you do NOT want to maynard to your expo. Unless you either want gas instantly (you should transfer the SCVs needed for gas) or you can't rally them from your main to your expo safely.
In other words again, when you have 16 SCVs at your main, you want to set your main OC rally to your expo, too. (unless there are more than 16 SCVs at your expo, too or if they might get sniped on the way)
*when you would play 13/14CC it would be better than fast OC because you would add a rax after the CC and upgrade both CCs to OC instantly when rax/cc are finished. Which would lead to an enormous eco. (just to clarify since I've read that fast OC would have a better eco than 13/14CC - which is just not true - I have no idea if there is a way you could survive with that tactic tho)
**Maybe the formel is a bit unclear, but since I do not have any possibility to get actually data I can not provide any numbers of how many minerals you lose eventually. But it won't be too much if you don't wait too long for the OC after the rax is finished)
***I don't have an idea how many SCVs you would need for maynard to make the lift before OC worth it. Even tho i think when you have that many SCVs you probably can build your CC direct at the minerals anyway.
All the stuff in the text only works when a MULE mine at least as much as 3 SCVs (I'm not too sure about that tho because I do not know how long a OC needs to get 50 energy - so maybe it's even less), if not, forget all the crap i posted.
If you have questions or anything to add I'm happy to discuss =)
As I have said already in the beginning, I do not have the beta, therefore do not take anything here as a fact, but think about it as an idea.
Also everything should be based on (simple) math, therefore I really hope I didn't posted total bullshit.
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Uhh... that was a mouthfull. your command center can generate like 45 energy i think in the 90 seconds a Mule is down for(not at home to verify) which means you can have one up almost all game long a the sacrifice of Scans(not advised) If you place the MULE on the closest patch to your CC he will reliably pull in 270 minerals in his 90 second lifetime. If that patch is too far away he will time out during his final trip dropping the 30 minerals and making it 240. MULE's are economic powerhouses.
As to address what i think your suggestion is... Lifting comes in handy for island Expo's but I'd never want to try it for a natural or anything. Especially against Protoss Reapers micro'd well will get you early game control and that safety buffer to rapidly throw down your expo CC. After the reapers move into Marauders or swap out the rax for a Fac. lab for seige.
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Its plainly wrong that the perfect saturation is 16. The 'perfect' saturation is 24. If you have just 16 workers, you still have some time left where the first worker returns and the second one is not yet mining. When you have 24, one worker will return minerals, the other one will start mining immediatly while the third one is on its way back to the minerals which leaves you with the perfect saturation.
About the stuff you wrote considering the mule; you can also go for Barracks->Supply->OC and you'll get the Oc even faster without cutting scvs.
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I've never said that 16 workers is the perfect saturation. I just said that if you have less than 16 workers it makes no sense to maynard. In BW you used maynard because the worker/mineral-ratio dropped already when you had more than 1 worker for 1 block. When you only had 8 workers in BW a maynard wouldn't be useful, too.
So what I was saying is that when you have less than 16 workers maynard the workers to your expo makes no sense mineral wise. For other reasons maybe, but not mineral wise.
(When you can play barrack->supply->OC it's ofc better than supply->barrack->oc. I just have thought you get supply stucked for a short time when you play the first. But when not, even better)
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You will get supply stuck if you go rax->sup->OC, you really only get 1 extra scv out, but delay the OC by that extra time.
(assuming you're going straight for mineral econ and trying to squeeze out that 12th/13th scv before OC upgrade)
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On February 21 2010 13:50 TorcH wrote:
You will get supply stuck if you go rax->sup->OC, you really only get 1 extra scv out, but delay the OC by that extra time.
(assuming you're going straight for mineral econ and trying to squeeze out that 12th/13th scv before OC upgrade)
When you start the barracks early, you can start your OC right when your rax finishes and you will have 11 scvs by that time. Pretty sure. I'll have to check that timing again :-)
Edit: also check your PM TorcH 
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On February 21 2010 13:35 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Its plainly wrong that the perfect saturation is 16. The 'perfect' saturation is 24. If you have just 16 workers, you still have some time left where the first worker returns and the second one is not yet mining. When you have 24, one worker will return minerals, the other one will start mining immediatly while the third one is on its way back to the minerals which leaves you with the perfect saturation.
About the stuff you wrote considering the mule; you can also go for Barracks->Supply->OC and you'll get the Oc even faster without cutting scvs.
Are you 100% sure that 16 isn't perfect? Leaving 2/patch looks pretty damn perfect to me.
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On February 21 2010 14:03 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2010 13:35 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Its plainly wrong that the perfect saturation is 16. The 'perfect' saturation is 24. If you have just 16 workers, you still have some time left where the first worker returns and the second one is not yet mining. When you have 24, one worker will return minerals, the other one will start mining immediatly while the third one is on its way back to the minerals which leaves you with the perfect saturation.
About the stuff you wrote considering the mule; you can also go for Barracks->Supply->OC and you'll get the Oc even faster without cutting scvs. Are you 100% sure that 16 isn't perfect? Leaving 2/patch looks pretty damn perfect to me.
Well there are already calculations in another thread. As I said, when you get 2/patch the mining scv will leave the mineral patch while the other scv is still on its way to the mineral patch. If you have 3/patch the mining scv will leave the patch and there will be immediately another scv mining from the patch, while a 3rd scv is on its way to the patch and will start to mine when the second one is finished mining. That makes a perfect circle.
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I just saw psyonic reaver go a 14 cc or something into fast fortress and survived xD then proceeded into a 4 fac 2 armory turtle flash style until 2/2
sooooo epic xD
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EPT
