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Okay so of course being extremely cheesy I was curious how viable a DT tech was in PvP. The way I see it the tech structure needs to be the following:
Gateway --> Cybernetics Core --> Twilight Council --> Dark Shrine
I believe this build is the fastest way to get DT quickly, which also gives you a sturdy defense. Note I am in love with Stalkers so that's why I made them. Not sure how effective they really are in this build.
*note* This build only works with mains that have two vespene geysers!
9 Pylon
11 Gateway
12 Assimilator
14 Cybernetics Core
15 Zealot
17 Pylon (CB on Gateway)
18 Stalker
21 Assimilator 2 (CB on Gateway)
23 Stalker
25 Pylon (CB on Gateway) & Twilight Council
*I did the TC here because I was scouted by a zealot, so I couldn't just throw down my tech without suspicion, I would assume.
26 Gateway
28 Stalker (CB on Gateway)
30 Dark Shrine
32 Pylon
Once Shrine is done make two DT (I had exactly 250 gas at this point)
Also use CB on both gateways to get the DT out faster
And make a forge
This build actually left me a bit high on minerals, so I may want to go back and see how I can even that out. I was attacked and saved by the 2 DT that first came out, with 2 stalkers remaining.
Also should I worry about the Twilight Council being scouted? Since I made stalkers he could have assumed I was going for a blink rush (which I did a couple of times in PvT and it worked rather nicely).
Also is it possible to watch the replay and record it, upload it to youtube, and post it so you guys can see how I'm doing this? I can do the same for my other games, I'm just worried about streaming and getting significant lag.
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United States33584 Posts
Not having to spend the extra time and money on an observatory makes me think quick DT isn't that worth it right now. You can get observers really easy and fast =o
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United States17042 Posts
camtasia is probably your best friend for recording video. It'll use up a fair bit of processor though. Try it. The other popular one is fraps. Any other suggestions?
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On February 18 2010 14:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
camtasia is probably your best friend for recording video. It'll use up a fair bit of processor though. Try it. The other popular one is fraps. Any other suggestions?
I'll give this a go. I haven't had a chance to set up my stream and I still need to get verified  ... so lazy.
Also I think the viability of using DT is still a possibility. The early game to me (so far) has been mostly getting units, and I've noticed a lot of the early game toss units require the Twilight Council, so teching to the robotics doesn't always fit unless you're going for some early colossus (which is a good idea, they're pretty sweet too!  ).
Still fooling around with different builds and unit combinations. This was the first time I actually had the chance to use DT at all.
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unless its just my slow computer it seems you cant do stalker vs zealot micro nearly as effectively as goon vs zealot, id just go pure zeal until dts
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Sweden33719 Posts
Procaster seems fine for recording SC2, plus it means you can livestream at the same time.
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I tried using stalker micro against zealots. Didn't work, like IdrA said. I guess the optimal opening in PvP is 2 gate zealot transition into something. I have been going DT rushes, but I only won because the other player did not get detection at all.
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United States33584 Posts
On February 18 2010 14:56 IdrA wrote:
unless its just my slow computer it seems you cant do stalker vs zealot micro nearly as effectively as goon vs zealot, id just go pure zeal until dts
I think either or combination of.
A: Although the stalker says it has "6" range, zealots cover that ground faster.
B: Zealots don't have to pause a split second after reaching melee range to attack; they can attack as soon as they hit range.
C: Dragoon ball throw animation is faster than stalker laser pew.
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sorry. for SC2 noob question, but what does "CB" stand for?
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On February 18 2010 15:32 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2010 14:56 IdrA wrote:
unless its just my slow computer it seems you cant do stalker vs zealot micro nearly as effectively as goon vs zealot, id just go pure zeal until dts I think either or combination of. A: Although the stalker says it has "6" range, zealots cover that ground faster. B: Zealots don't have to pause a split second after reaching melee range to attack; they can attack as soon as they hit range. C: Dragoon ball throw animation is faster than stalker laser pew.
How about adding few Sentries to Stalkers and trying Force Fields against Zealots?
Sentry tech building is on the way to templars anyways...?
edit: and it's Cybernetics Core if my info is right  ?
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CB = Chrono Boost. 25 energy ability on the Nexus that increases train/research rate by 50% on a building of your choosing.
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Can it speed up warping in of buildings?
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On February 18 2010 21:24 beetlelisk wrote:
Can it speed up warping in of buildings?
Yes. From what I've been testing I think this also speeds up cooldown time for warp gates. Though I've fallen out of using them until the mid-game.
And sorry about the acronym I completely forgot what I wrote down as "CB" but I knew what it did.
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On February 18 2010 14:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
camtasia is probably your best friend for recording video. It'll use up a fair bit of processor though. Try it. The other popular one is fraps. Any other suggestions?
unless you're sporting a powerful computer like i7 8 threads camtasia is unlikely candidate for quality as the more action you have on the screen the more power you need to maintain quality(but you do have a wide range of codec options), fraps just takes the drawn screen and photocopies it.
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United States2822 Posts
Does using the Chrono Boost actually speed up buildings warping in? Every time I try to click on a building using the Chrono Boost it says that the target is invalid.
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No. Units and upgrades only
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DT tech is worst option in PvP obs come out way to fast
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I just think the new PvP reminds me of SC1 ZvZ. It's a massive zealot fight because of the no-stalker-micro-thing, and then you just wait to see who has the balls to tech first.
You HAVE to match gates with your opponent early on, or else you're boned.
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I haven't looked at your specific build order but i've been dt rushing people and it's pretty effective lolz
Also I'm really enjoying playing protoss from the versatility CB gives you.
Zerg has this same versatility with being able to choose whether to use your extra larva for drones or for attacking units, but it seems like terran doesn't have that kind of option. MULEs are only going to help your economy out, not your unit production. I gues they have the thing that lets them build 2 at a time tho... I haven't played enough terran yet to really get a feel for it
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I have to agree with Response and Cokephone. Getting obs simply takes less time and money than getting DT. Zealots are also stupid strong in PvP since Stalkers can't compete, especially on those dumb wide-ramp or no-ramp maps.
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
pylon on 8, make 9th probe, chrono boost, gateway on 12 is faster.
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Watching Louders' PvP makes me think Stalkers can still micro vs Zealots. The timing is probably different, so it's throwing some players off.
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Having played around with a Dt build, I'd go pure zeals until dt. Even then, getting scans/obs/overlord is quite easier in sc2 which makes dt rushes a tad easy to counter.
Seeing the Twilight council doesnt completely blow the plan out, as you still have a couple tech options there, albeit not many.
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Royal: I lurked at TL a lot before I joined(about 3 days ago)and I just wanted to say congrats to you for getting your own Royal stove build. Maybe you can make another one in SC2!
back on topic: Doesn't the fact that you getting templar archives which leads to a lot and with templar archives acting as the "citadel" per say for the DT's dark shrine make it so that its basically takes the same time as before to get DTs? If you add the fact that the colossus is the only other reason to get the robotics then you realize that you'll end up using star gate and templar archives most of the time. I haven't played the game(unless you count blizzcon) but I've studied all the info there is about it and this seems to be true.
edit: plus you can hide the dark shrine or and at the same time use the same pylon(if proxing another main) to warp units and make a hidden army.
You can also hide the templar archives when your doing it for another BO and trick your opponents. This also has the same proxy affect.
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Dark Shrine does not require the Templar Archives, and I barely use the stargate unless I'm trying to incorporate those units (rare).
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what does the Dark Shrine require then? The tech tree in SC2 is much more confusing for me with all the changes they've made to SC2 units. I can't clearly remember the tech tree.
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On February 18 2010 14:56 IdrA wrote:
unless its just my slow computer it seems you cant do stalker vs zealot micro nearly as effectively as goon vs zealot, id just go pure zeal until dts
this
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DT rush isn't viable at all. A good player will see your obvious deficiencies in units and fast tech and just 2 gate the hell out of you, using chrono boost the whole time.
Robo tech is the only viable thing pvp now, since HTs do so little damage per storm and Colossuses rape so hard.
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EPT
