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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wExdxWi.png)
--- Battle Frontier --- MAP IS PUBLISHED IN: NA, EU, KR Map Size (Playable) 164 x 164
OVERVIEW:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sHprsYk.jpg)
90:
ANALYZER:
BASES:
ABOUT THE MAP: + Show Spoiler +WALL:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m8rtTBO.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nh5jQWw.jpg) I've left the high ground patch above the 3rd walkable 2 serve as a reaper path for players. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6YEqKAR.jpg)
I've seen that there are a few maps with low ground mains (but they are very very few), I fell it's a concept worth experimenting upon, so I decided to give it a go.
So I made a 4 player "standard" map.
If you'd like, make sure to give it a go and see if you like the feel of low ground mains. (Let me know about this, so I can give you a finished version of map ASAP)
Map is still beta, no doodads have yet been added (except for vision doodads). High ground above nat is still tankable (this will NOT be on final version).
As always thank you for posting your thoughts/criticisms/likes... !
+ Show Spoiler +Little sketch I made of the map b4 starting. (that way you have a plan b4 you open the editor, and you just don't throw random expos, see what happens and hope inspiration strikes. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mxCCCKR.jpg) I made it on an app called: Sketches for the IOS, good app, I recommend it. That way when inspiration does hit you, you just get your phone out and start drawing. I think its free app.
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I don't like low ground mains generally because it forces players, or strongly promotes them, to defend from the natural, thus shutting down many one base strategies that involve easy base defense. Also, blink allin play may be an issue since the defender has to defend a lot of surface area against stalkers (once the rocks are down). Middle bases seem like they could end up being winner-bases, but maybe not.
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I actually really like this. I think mixing thigs up a bit is a good idea.
I also love the textures .
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
This might work in LotV.... but definitely won't work in HotS. Low ground mains have been studied pretty extensively and we're pretty confident that there are no scenarios where a low ground main is viable or, at worst, makes the game better.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On August 03 2015 03:02 SwedenTheKid wrote:
I don't like low ground mains generally because it forces players, or strongly promotes them, to defend from the natural, thus shutting down many one base strategies that involve easy base defense.
I believe it's a poor argument in the grand scheme of things. Some maps allow map-specific strategies and some maps should prohibit map-specific strategies. Balance is important, everything else - not so much. L2P and all that.
That being said, I guess blink play will be a problem.
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I like your terrain but perhaps better quality of pictures will do justice to your map and terrain.
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I think, main base change to 3rd floor, more good map.
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On August 03 2015 14:51 Ingvar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2015 03:02 SwedenTheKid wrote:
I don't like low ground mains generally because it forces players, or strongly promotes them, to defend from the natural, thus shutting down many one base strategies that involve easy base defense. I believe it's a poor argument in the grand scheme of things. Some maps allow map-specific strategies and some maps should prohibit map-specific strategies. Balance is important, everything else - not so much. L2P and all that. That being said, I guess blink play will be a problem.
It's not that I'm against maps the promote or devalue certain strategies, it's simply that low ground mains add nothing of value to the game while at the same time making certain strategies very difficult to use. If you have hard to secure 4th bases, for example, you are making certain macro styles harder to execute, but at the same time you are adding room for different plays incorporating the lack of an easy 4th. With low ground mains, players will just defend at the natural 100% of the time. That's the issue I see with it.
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another small issue, you can warp into the main (with vision) because of the same cliff level at the 3rd base.
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Apparently, low ground mains are just not viable in sc2 (because of warp ins) so I will have to make mains 3rd high ground.
I wish it were not the case, giving that there is no high ground advantage and its 4-player map, and main2main distance is almost like 70 secs (so cheese is less likely)
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You can make the area where pylons could be used for warpin unbuildable, or increase the gap between the pathable areas, or somehow redesign so the lowground 3rd is lower than the lowground main (tricky).
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@EatThePath
Humm interesting suggestion, I think I might try that, and also try the high ground main, and see what option you guys like better. (There are also a couple of issues the map cave pointed out, that I will fix)
On August 03 2015 07:04 Plexa wrote:
This might work in LotV.... but definitely won't work in HotS. Low ground mains have been studied pretty extensively and we're pretty confident that there are no scenarios where a low ground main is viable or, at worst, makes the game better.
What do you mean by studied extensively? What map was this tested on?
And low ground mains not “making the game better”
Well ok, from a player point of view yes it might be less smooth. But as a mapper and a player I really think the game needs some variation, take players a bit out of comfort zone, and experiment a little. They are just all to confortable will the classic lay out.
But maybe low ground mains might not be the answer.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
We've tried them across a variety of TLMC maps. Bunker rushes are particularly strong. If a Zerg ever cedes high ground control to Terran the game is lost, making 2 rax an incredibly powerful option. This is in conjunction with the standard protoss bullshit that you can pull on a map like this. The point is it may be 'different' from the norm, but it's not the right kind of different. It powers up dumb cheese without actually contributing any interesting strategies.
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On August 05 2015 05:18 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:@EatThePath Humm interesting suggestion, I think I might try that, and also try the high ground main, and see what option you guys like better. (There are also a couple of issues the map cave pointed out, that I will fix) Show nested quote +On August 03 2015 07:04 Plexa wrote:
This might work in LotV.... but definitely won't work in HotS. Low ground mains have been studied pretty extensively and we're pretty confident that there are no scenarios where a low ground main is viable or, at worst, makes the game better. What do you mean by studied extensively? What map was this tested on?
there might have been more, but one of them was keru by meerel, which was a tlmc 2 finalist. it started out with low ground mains as you can see here, but by the time the contest ended they had been converted to high ground.
edit: new tl layout sucks, apparently links are now almost indistinguishable from regular text
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Didn't notice it before but there's a few awkward things like http://i.imgur.com/6YEqKAR.jpg which is kind of gross (geyser in the way), and also http://i.imgur.com/1Y5iORO.jpg. @ the second pic, you could either slightly reposition those 4 ramps, or since they are large ramps in the middle the "no cardinal ramps" rule doesn't really apply so you could consider making them cardinal.
also: slightly swastika-like shapes spotted! :-P
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On August 05 2015 10:43 Fatam wrote:Didn't notice it before but there's a few awkward things like http://i.imgur.com/6YEqKAR.jpg which is kind of gross (geyser in the way), and also http://i.imgur.com/1Y5iORO.jpg. @ the second pic, you could either slightly reposition those 4 ramps, or since they are large ramps in the middle the "no cardinal ramps" rule doesn't really apply so you could consider making them cardinal. also: slightly swastika-like shapes spotted! :-P
second one is probably fine imo, the first can probably be solved just by moving the mineral line closer to the main.
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Ok I applied about 90% of the suggestions from the map cave and TL.
This is the new version of the map:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8XpygHJ.jpg)
What changed?:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Main is now high ground
- Made 3,6,9,12 o clock chockes considerably wider.
- Made mains larger
- Made map a bit more blink proof
- Re positioned the minerals/gas of the 3rd expo.
- Applied some changes on middle of the map 2 make it less choky
- Added several ovie spots (12 total)
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Seems interesting, though the 3 bases setup looks extremely easy to defend.
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Did the clockwise 3rd get closer? That seems better now for some reason.
Small issue, you (almost always) should make it impossible to forcefield the main ramp from anywhere but inside the natural, aka you need to have breached bunker defense etc or dropped inside to get access to that move. Right now you can pull blink hijinks with a forcefield from the lowground, which is really mean. And you already provide excellent blink surface area so that'd be far too abusable imo.
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