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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EdFnI1X.jpg)
by LComteVarauG
Available on SEA and NA
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LfBYLlz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aPumzuP.png)
Aesthetics (outdated):
+ Show Spoiler +
This map used textures from Castanar, Korhal, Char Fortress, Skygeirr and Phaeton.
Here is a set of pictures that help explain my thinking behind the balance of the map (mostly in regards to blink). Please keep in mind that a couple of the blink paths have been removed in an updated version. However, a lot of the thinking is the same:
+ Show Spoiler +Here is a little 'analyser' of mine: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PflDkw7.jpg) Here is my reasoning about how blink play should turn out (I want it to be viable, but not over powered): ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UDJZjQG.jpg) (This option above is no longer as "viable") ^ ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cm6RGvl.jpg) I think that if you are: -On 2 bases. you have a very short distance to travel to get back to your main. -On 3 bases, the army will be placed at the front ramp, and if you are Protoss or Terran, you will have a wall there too. Therefore, blink stalkers cannot get into the main, and the only part of your base you must worry about is the natural/3rd area. Because you could have 3 bases behind one ramp, there is a back door entrance to the natural for a bit later on in the game.
This map has indeed changed a lot. Here is the change log: 
+ Show Spoiler +
I also have a map file for almost all of these changes, so if a drastic change is undesirable, I can revert to any of these stages very easily. Thanks for all of the feedback guys!
... So much of this map has changed to blink. Maybe it would be easier if blink just didn't go up cliffs! 
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Interesting map, although it may be too open. But I like it.
Edit : oh yeah, blink. I forgot about it for a moment.
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United States2142 Posts
First noticeable thing is that blink's going to be too strong here. The entire main surface is vulnerable, plus the angle of the main ramp means the defender has to take a long route to get back into their base (think blistering sands backdoor syndrome). Also I agree that it might be too open, once you leave the nat/3rd area there's only 1 real choke across the entire map (the center by the watchtower).
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Yeah, I agree blink might be a problem here. I will see if I can make the map have more chokes and I will fix up the main. Thanks guys!
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I think I have fixed the blink issue, though perhaps the area in front of the new gold bases is still too wide open?
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I'm not sure if I like the Blink fix, it creates the Daedalus-esque issue of the ramp being too far from the natural base and delete the mid-ground between the nat and third which was a cool feature. The other changes are fine, and the area in front of the gold is fine because since it's a gold it's not a problem to have it in an exposed and open position like that.
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The middle of the map is rather uninspired. Ramps don't add much to the game especially when they are so large. You may aswell have a flat middle with some doodads, the result would be the same.
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On February 28 2015 20:37 algue wrote:
The middle of the map is rather uninspired. Ramps don't add much to the game especially when they are so large. You may aswell have a flat middle with some doodads, the result would be the same.
Thanks algue.
I have split the wide ramps in halve, in the hope that it will create and interesting dynamic in which the player holding the plateau gains map control, but if they get to aggressive, the low ground defender will get a better concave, creating a tug of war type battle over the center with run-by's on the sides.
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your Country52798 Posts
Even if you hold the center, it's really easy for your opponent to go around the huge open space of the sides of the map with the given three base layout, or to flank/surround you. So there's really not that much value in holding the center, especially with all the bases in the sides/corners.
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On March 01 2015 12:12 The_Templar wrote:
Even if you hold the center, it's really easy for your opponent to go around the huge open space of the sides of the map with the given three base layout, or to flank/surround you. So there's really not that much value in holding the center, especially with all the bases in the sides/corners.
Thanks The_Templar.
I have heavily modified the center, but I am not sure if it really works with the map. Perhaps I should remove the area around the watchtower and make that low ground, having a split central plateau?
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United States10534 Posts
if you put some kind of central base design, i think the middle would be a much larger priority. as it is, people can just go around the sides because of your base design and circle syndrome.
the map does look pretty good though.
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While I like this map, I've tried to listen to the comments. How about making a ramp down from main base with destructible rocks across the map to the opponents main?
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I think I may have missed previous versions because the comments don't make sense with the current picture, which looks like a choky map to me. The distance to defend 4 bases is actually quite short, and everything has to move through a relatively short stretch of the middle. (Measure from ramp edges.) Looks very strong for mech and SH. And protoss.
But, I rather like it. The use of the cliffs and ramps to separate the otherwise circle syndrome bases kind of works to make it more positional.
Probably should remove the tower though.
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It looks like 2 FF can block the natural, if that's the case, shouldn't it be a tad wider?
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The gold base needs to become standard.
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Reminds me too much of cloud kingdom. CK was a good map mind you.
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That blink opportunity from the 3th to the main...shivers down my spine.
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On March 06 2015 15:42 Zerg.Zilla wrote:
That blink opportunity from the 3th to the main...shivers down my spine.
Hopefully what I did hasn't made it worse, but I decided to reconnect the natural and 3rd As a Zerg player, I think I can still fairly easily deal with blink here. At least now the distance from your 3rd to your main is much shorter.
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On March 06 2015 19:59 LComteVarauG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 15:42 Zerg.Zilla wrote:
That blink opportunity from the 3th to the main...shivers down my spine. Hopefully what I did hasn't made it worse, but I decided to reconnect the natural and 3rd As a Zerg player, I think I can still fairly easily deal with blink here. At least now the distance from your 3rd to your main is much shorter.
Are u sure that blink issue on maps is primarily related to Zergs?
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On March 07 2015 06:02 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 19:59 LComteVarauG wrote:On March 06 2015 15:42 Zerg.Zilla wrote:
That blink opportunity from the 3th to the main...shivers down my spine. Hopefully what I did hasn't made it worse, but I decided to reconnect the natural and 3rd As a Zerg player, I think I can still fairly easily deal with blink here. At least now the distance from your 3rd to your main is much shorter. Are u sure that blink issue on maps is primarily related to Zergs?
No, what I meant is that I know that at least Zerg can easily deal with blink offence. For the other races, I explained what I thought would happen in that scenario in the first post. The distances from where blink can enter the base relative to where the armies should be are not too far, so blink is both viable and easy to deal with. I only mentioned Zerg because I am a Zerg player, and I know that as Zerg it is fairly easy to stop blink play without making those strategies useless. I don't want to make a lot of strategies unviable for each race and yet I want the map to be balanced.
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Let me show u this image
+ Show Spoiler +
That's what the current design allows. I wouldn't call blink viable, rather very good strategy.
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On March 07 2015 07:15 Phaenoman wrote:Let me show u this image + Show Spoiler +That's what the current design allows. I wouldn't call blink viable, rather very good strategy.
What do you recommend I do to fix it? I think the first two blink paths that go into the natural are pointless, however, because your army will already be there... The paths into the main whilst you are on 2 bases might be problematic though, yes. Is it not viable for the player on the receiving end of the blink attacks to move their army back to the main? The distance is very short, and the blink attack wouldn't even last more than 10 seconds.
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First of all I don't think u can say, that the natural paths are pointless. U have to take all into account, bcuz Toss will engage at the weakest point. If u dont build up a bunker at the back of the natural, what keeps me from blinking in there? The img shows all possible blink spots. U have to cover all of them as Terran. And that's the issue. If u don't wanna kill blink on this map completely, I would suggest a gap (green) at 1 and 4. I think u will have to readjust the 3rds position due to that.
Then I think its reasonable for terran to cover 2 and 3 with two bunkers. I hope this does not totally messes with with ur idea, but blink is such a pain when it comes to main-natural-3rd design. It kinda limits ur creativity, even tho its a great ability.
+ Show Spoiler +
Hope that helps a bit.
Btw 10 seconds of Blink is a pretty long time.
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On March 07 2015 08:54 Phaenoman wrote:First of all I don't think u can say, that the natural paths are pointless. U have to take all into account, bcuz Toss will engage at the weakest point. If u dont build up a bunker at the back of the natural, what keeps me from blinking in there? The img shows all possible blink spots. U have to cover all of them as Terran. And that's the issue. If u don't wanna kill blink on this map completely, I would suggest a gap (green) at 1 and 4. I think u will have to readjust the 3rds position due to that. Then I think its reasonable for terran to cover 2 and 3 with two bunkers. I hope this does not totally messes with with ur idea, but blink is such a pain when it comes to main-natural-3rd design. It kinda limits ur creativity, even tho its a great ability. + Show Spoiler +Hope that helps a bit. Btw 10 seconds of Blink is a pretty long time.
Alright, thanks! I will work on it and update the map.
Edit: I have updated the map, but I think I will leave the natural part of this scenario as it is, at least for now.
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