EPT[M] (4) KTV Foxtrot Labs SE - Page 3
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On July 09 2014 16:47 SatedSC2 wrote: They fixed the width of the ramp, or don't you remember? Overcharge range was still an issue after that happened. As for tailoring my builds (plural - this affects all modern GW expands), why would I bother doing that when I can just take terrible maps like this out of the map pool by vetoing them? You're providing an excellent example of why mapping has devolved to what it is now | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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moskonia
Israel1448 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 09 2014 21:15 SatedSC2 wrote: Did Tal'Darim Altar help to expand the PvP meta by not having a ramp into the main..? Nope. Everybody 4 Gated. Some things are necessary for a reason =/ EDIT: Moving the choke that far away from the Nexus forces Protoss players to either use ultra-safe 1GFE builds or to do a safe FFE. You restrict the meta-game by forcing a certain style of play. Essentially, having the choke that far away from the Nexus adds nothing to the game, it only takes things away. I thought we already had maps in the mappool that didn't allow to PO to protect your wall, e.g. Whirlwind, fixed Deadalus or Alterzim (well, I guess the tiny choke helps here as well)? Has this actually been a balance issue of a map ever? Is it even possible on KSS, Merry-Go-Round and Nimbus to protect your wall with the PO? I absolutly can't think of a timing where this would be a necessary feature, just like it is not necessary to have your 3rd in an open field for zerg, yet it's much more comfortable given forcefieldbased attacks. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 09 2014 22:10 SatedSC2 wrote: Whirlwind was too big, so I had it vetoed for that reason. Legitimately awful map. Daedulus was a terrible map for a whole load of reasons that I'm not even going to bother getting into; suffice to say that it was terrible for PvZ. It is possible on King Sejong. It's not on Merry Go Round, but the only reason I have that map unvetoed is because this map is worse (although MGR has a 60+% winrate for Zerg so I might have to rethink that). Nimbus has an in-base natural so I don't know why you're bringing that up... EDIT: In any case, there's no good reason not to put the natural choke within range, so why do it differently..? What are mapmakers trying to achieve..? There is a lot of good reasons: for example when you want to create a backdoor at a certain location.  Or just because you don't want Protoss to be capable to defend like that since it is not needed, just like any other non-vital feature for another race is not going to be on every map. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 09 2014 22:48 SatedSC2 wrote: It's not really a back door when it's plainly visible from the wall-in. That adds nothing to the map whatsoever :S Seeing =/= Protecting. You can still try to bust it (and people will try and some will succeed). If it isn't there, you can't even try. Call it a sidedoor, if it isn't back enough for you... And without it the way between third and natural/main becomes awkwardly long by ground, e.g. for a Protoss trying to defend a Terran attacking into the third and then picking up and dropping in the main. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On July 09 2014 22:48 SatedSC2 wrote: It's not really a back door when it's plainly visible from the wall-in. That adds nothing to the map whatsoever :S I'm not sure you know what you're talking about anymore. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
I'm just arguing that your critics on the map do lack the balance background that you invoked. That for reasons of taste you may not like it is nothing I care about. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 10 2014 04:10 SatedSC2 wrote: Aside from bringing up win-rates on Merry Go Round, I'm pretty sure I didn't bring up balance :S Hm, balance-background was probably not the right word here. The idea that a map is terrible just because it misses a feature you would want to have. I also want to have all maps not having walls in PO-range, so that Protoss have to put their tech into the wall if they don't want to be vulnurable with 1gate expo-->tech-->you-can't-scout-because-I-have-stalkers builds. Makes it much more comfortable for me when I go Zerg. Yet I wouldn't call a map without that feature terrible. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On July 10 2014 00:52 SatedSC2 wrote: You've replied to me twice in this thread, and both times you've made a needlessly defensive, snarky shit-post. If you don't have a point to make then don't bother replying to me :3 I dunno how you read that into my text, but try this on for size: you come into the thread saying the map is unreasonable for reason x. People then come in explaining why x is not as bad as you're making it out to be, and you proceed to explain why the map is - and this is your word here - terrible, and an auto-veto because of it. I'm not going to tell you which maps to veto and which not to, but your reasoning is ludicrous here. You're vetoing a map solely because you can't do the exact same build you do on every other map, there's an entitlement thing going on here. On July 10 2014 00:52 SatedSC2 wrote: If I were someone who FFE'd then this wouldn't be as much of an issue but, given that I didn't FFE in WoL, I'm sure as shit not going to do it now just so that I can play this map. This is my favorite part. What do you think is the purpose of having different maps? Don't ask us, ask yourself, what do you think mapmakers are trying to achieve? We put hours upon hours into creating each map we put out, and it sure as hell doesn't go into creating mere re-skins of maps. I find the outlook that you must have, to post something like that, simply appalling. Try putting thought into the game, that's the strategy part. If you only want to do one build ever, and chew out any map as terrible when you can't do that one build, then fine, I will gladly accept your veto, please don't play on my maps. I have no desire to put as much work as I do into my maps for them to be played on by people who think the way you clearly do. | ||
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BellmanFord
United States8 Posts
On July 07 2014 15:13 Uvantak wrote: Did you saw that game man? Tempests vs a lift to gold the last day of competition! awesum =3 I'm guessing this map is not as good as Habitation Station for floating to gold against Z ... unless they don't worker scout. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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