Some ol' map design I had laying around, which I finally decided to try finish up. Been pretty fun making these underground ruins! Inspiration taken from Blizzards Shattered Terrace map.
Map Decription:
Circular map for up to 5 players. Close spawns are disabled unless forced by the number of players. Force fields around the area limits the air movement zone. New Pompeii is an unusual map because it has two exits out of each main base. When played 1v1, the shortest path to the enemy takes roughly 54 seconds, while the longer path takes around 74 seconds. Due to how the routes are at initially it can be fairly hard to sneak in ground forces without air support, as a single unit can easily keep an eye on the only ramps leading out. This changes completely when players start taking down rocks leading into the center of the map, which causes completely new strategies and means of victory to open up.
Update log:
~0.18 Minor terrain & doodad changes. Removed 2x2 rocks ontop of main ramps. Added 4x4 rocks on main ramps, making it easier to defend said ramps. Still possible to fully block the ramp entrance with 2x supply depots & 1x barrack combo. ~0.17 Fixed some expansion spots. ~0.15 Fixed localiziation files. ~0.14 Added support for patch 2.1 GameHeart. Fixed 6 o'clock mineral line. Minor terrain changes. ~0.13 Fixed Vespene Geyser locations. Minor terrain changes. + Show Spoiler [Older patch notes] +
~0.12 Website link added. Changed map descreption. Secrets added? ~0.11 Minor performance issues fixed. Will it ever end? Find out, in the next version! 2x2 rock placement fixed at various main ramps. Critters has been added. ~0.10 Performance fixes at some areas. Made it easier to wall main ramps. Minor location change to rocks blocking off the middle area. ~0.9 Some terrain changes. Made (some) cliff sides less boring to look at. ~0.8 Added overview & screenshots to map information. ~0.7 Minor fixes ~0.6 Forcefields has been dropped down, to limit air space around mains & naturals. Slight changes to expansion areas Improved performance in various areas. ~0.5 Minor natural expansion adjustments Underwater wildlife added, aswell with some seaweed ~0.3 Minor detail changes ~0.1 Map Release.
On December 29 2013 02:41 Existor wrote: Why you (and many other mapmakers) can't go away a bit from standard tileset?
• Modify water • Modify day time and light set • Modify trees and doodads • Add something non-standard for this tileset. Experiment with it?
Anyway love these ruins and glad they are used again. Nice map, bot too standard
A few things I would like to say to you:
1. Many mapmakers already mix and match tile sets anyway to achieve a certain visual effect 2. Many mapmakers already play around with lighting, be it colours, fog effects, day/night, etc. 3. Many mapmakers already mix different style doodads to achieve a certain visual effect 4. Blizzard's default tile sets are well constructed and there's nothing wrong with utilizing them as-is
There's nothing more annoying to me than when someone releases a creative work and people complain that it doesn't look like something else. The mapmaker worked hard and wanted to use this visual style for the map.
On December 29 2013 02:41 Existor wrote: Why you (and many other mapmakers) can't go away a bit from standard tileset?
• Modify water • Modify day time and light set • Modify trees and doodads • Add something non-standard for this tileset. Experiment with it?
Anyway love these ruins and glad they are used again. Nice map, bot too standard
That's flat out ridiculous. Too standard? This is the total opposite of standard. And your comments about the aesthetics are kind of ridiculous as well. Lots of mapmakers do those things, and you can't bash a mapmaker for not going way far above and beyond other mapmakers.
@OP: I think this is a cool map. I'm a bit concerned about whether or not it can hold early pools and other cheese that needs to be walled, though.
This is actually really cool. I'm wondering if adding rock towers on each of the main ramps would help the map or not. Being able to expand one way then block off the path could be pretty nice. Although then you could knock down rock towers and basically turtle up since now they would have to break down rocks to get to your base. Although since early game you can really only attack through the circle it's probably okay. Would be sweet to have 30 lings attack from one side and 30 from the other though, could definitely reward splitting of the army.
Also, Blink might be scary on this map. Anyway to add some extra space between the mains & forward bases so it's tougher to blink? There is just so much surface area in the main and naturals that the mobility of Blink might make them waaay too good on this map. Also, blinking over the d-rocks if needed. Could add LoSB in the middle of the double d-rocks at your natural to block vision. Although most likely MSC will be there so it doesn't really matter.
On December 29 2013 02:41 Existor wrote: Why you (and many other mapmakers) can't go away a bit from standard tileset?
• Modify water • Modify day time and light set • Modify trees and doodads • Add something non-standard for this tileset. Experiment with it?
Anyway love these ruins and glad they are used again. Nice map, bot too standard
A few things I would like to say to you:
1. Many mapmakers already mix and match tile sets anyway to achieve a certain visual effect 2. Many mapmakers already play around with lighting, be it colours, fog effects, day/night, etc. 3. Many mapmakers already mix different style doodads to achieve a certain visual effect 4. Blizzard's default tile sets are well constructed and there's nothing wrong with utilizing them as-is
There's nothing more annoying to me than when someone releases a creative work and people complain that it doesn't look like something else. The mapmaker worked hard and wanted to use this visual style for the map.
1. So do you try similar things or just copy-past original tileset with different landscape layout? 2. Give me example of lighting set / colors / fog effects, which aren't standard for any tileset? I can give only some - Cloud Kingdom, which was very blurred and turned into standard light set by tournaments. Check Red City map - this is great example of it. Red water, slighty red lighting - THATs really something new and feels like a completely new and unique map. 3. Same as for 2. 4. Yes, they are. I don't say that there is something wrong with them. I say, that you should experiment more. Check Polar Night - this winter map si different from other winter maps, like Yeonsu or Frost. Frost also is very nice example of non-standardness.
Your work is nice, ruins, landscape layout is also unique for 5 player map. But the problem is that your map isn't memorable, like Neo Planet S or Habitation Station or Frost or Red City. Those maps are nice AND unique.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=421999 - crazy and epic example of how imagination can be used. The map name fits well everything - crazy orange fog of war, zergy doodads in the unpathable zones, greeny light set. That REALLY looks like a nightmare or hell, or probably both.
You wanted constructive criticism? Here it is. I listed tons of examples of what you can try. I don't say that your map is bad, just try to make it EVEN MORE BETTER. Add something, modify something, add many waterfalls, add rain, add slightu darker light set like sunset, or something like that. Make it looking different from Shattered Terrace.
Don't be agressive. Those comments from me about standardness of your map are adressed not only to you. I just want you to add more uniqueness to your work, so each of your work will be memorable and look interesting from eachother.
Good luck and have fun with creating other maps.
That's flat out ridiculous. Too standard? This is the total opposite of standard. And your comments about the aesthetics are kind of ridiculous as well. Lots of mapmakers do those things, and you can't bash a mapmaker for not going way far above and beyond other mapmakers.
I already listed some examples of really unique maps and tries to make map unique looking from others.
Yeah so I'm not sure what you consider standard but I'm pretty sure this is not it
For me, standard maps are just same tileset / light / doodads / etc as original map. Non-standard maps are maps which have something that makes them unique. For example lava rift on the Frost map, or Polar Night lighting with snow everywhere, or Red City light set, red water and buildings in the water or red-textured middle part of the map.
So what you're saying is that layout for maps doesn't matter at all and only aesthetics matters?
His map is incredibly non-standard in terms of layout. He didn't want to try crazy stuff in both aesthetics and layout, so he picked one to be crazy and made the other one standard. There's nothing wrong with that; in fact, I think it's a good thing, since too much craziness would be an overload.
I think the aesthetics are great. Hardly do you see any Bel'shir Jungle nowadays. It's also a very hard texture set to do correctly. I'm honestly quite impressed, especially with the tiles in the middle. Looks really nice.
The map itself is crazy cool. Really stirs up some theory crafting. I'm thinking the ramps should still be 1x, at least for early game means. So, make them a 3x ramp with 2x rocks on it. That would help the early game a big, and even the late game since those ramps will be wider without rocks. I'm gonna try and play some games on it though. Balance aside, looks fun.
So what you're saying is that layout for maps doesn't matter at all and only aesthetics matters?
I don't say that something does not matters, and something matters over all. I say, that if you want to do really masterpiece artwork, then you should try do it in all areas - not only in unique landscape layout.
He didn't want to try crazy stuff in both aesthetics and layout
You see something crazy on Frost? I don't, but it's still unique and cool loking map. Or something crazy at Habitation Station? Just nice synergy of nature and protoss hi-tech platform/station.
There's nothing wrong with that; in fact, I think it's a good thing, since too much craziness would be an overload.
Fully agree on that, so you should try to experiment and do something, like new standard, something nice but without crazy ideas, like that Nightmare map or another one with everything in dark-red. Check Frost, check Alterzim giant map which is one of the nicest map from Blizzard.
I gave tons of examples, many of them are featured by Blizzard and tournaments. If you don't want to accept feedback, then it's not a my problem from now.
I know and believe, you can do better. The problem is that many great looking and original maps were forgotten by the community (you can find them on 3+ page in this TL.net map section). And some of them were done with a lot more effort and time, than your map in this thread. So, problem is not only in your side.
Some of the things Existor says I disagree with, but then he constantly praises Habitation Station, so I'm going to have to agree with him because obviously Hab Station is amazing.
I don't think the aesthetics are bad at all though, sure they might be a little "standard" but I don't think they look bad at all. Then again, maybe making the underground ruins an ice temple or a lava temple or something like that might spice it up a bit. It's funny though, because as I said earlier I love the layout and I think it's very unique, so it does make sense that if the aesthetics were unique as well maybe the map would stand out a lot more.
I'll be honest here, a huge chunk of the PMs I get about Habitation Station are about how awesome the aesthetics are. I swear most of the players that check out the map don't even care about the layout/balance of it all, but mainly just how it looks lol.
Exacly Sidian , everyone is like " OMG your map is amazing , i fucking love the aesthetics. Plz marry me " and after 2 days in ladder this is going to be " OMG shitty map ! I cant even take the natural , this gold is shit , zerg imba protoss retard. Fire sidian pls".
I'll be honest here, a huge chunk of the PMs I get about Habitation Station are about how awesome the aesthetics are. I swear most of the players that check out the map don't even care about the layout/balance of it all, but mainly just how it looks lol.
This. Also newest example of how interesting and unique may be map with different layout and tileset, is Fallen Dreams
Thanks for all the comments & feedback regarding my map!
Now, regarding the theme of the map. I choose the basic theme of Bel'shir, cause hey, last time I used that was during the WoL beta phase, and mixed it with some Zerus plant life & Underground ruin complex. I thought about changing the lighting of the map, but I found the original lighting good enough for clearity of the map layout. New thing I added to the lastest update is underwater wildlife, making the sea look less boring. (Some of which is seen the new video I just added! Go watch it.)
@Timetwister22 I have thought about adding some rocks to the main ramps, making it easier to defend, but I'm not entirely sure if its the right call, as there's already plenty of rocks on the map, haha. I'm open for more ideas, on what to do on this unusual map layout. (:
Now, regarding the theme of the map. I choose the basic theme of Bel'shir, cause hey, last time I used that was during the WoL beta phase, and mixed it with some Zerus plant life & Underground ruin complex. I thought about changing the lighting of the map, but I found the original lighting good enough for clearity of the map layout. New thing I added to the lastest update is underwater wildlife, making the sea look less boring. (Some of which is seen the new video I just added! Go watch it.)
Now it looks better. Some things are really nice - water around main island (reminds good old Red Alert 2-3 times).
On December 29 2013 23:43 Ferisii wrote: @Timetwister22 I have thought about adding some rocks to the main ramps, making it easier to defend, but I'm not entirely sure if its the right call, as there's already plenty of rocks on the map, haha. I'm open for more ideas, on what to do on this unusual map layout. (:
Well, you could always make the mid rocks collapse rocks. That would actually be kinda neat now that I think about it. I'll still have to get games on it though.
There's nothing wrong with doing "standard" aesthetics, whatever that even means. Consciously staying away from old tilesets because they're old implies that they've been figured out, which is by no means true. A tileset as-is is comparable to the distortion I put on my electric guitar. It changes the tone, yeah, but the way I play with it makes the biggest difference. I think, for Bel'Shir, it looks fantastic, which is great, considering nobody touches it.
Remember, the goal with your aesthetics is to make things pleasing to look at, as well as clear in terms of gameplay. Throwing conventions out the window because hey, we need to experiment more, is the wrong way to go. If you have a cool new idea for the aesthetics and know how you're gonna pull it off, then it works brilliantly, but doing it just because you want to have a unique tileset is ridiculous.
Well people seem to focus on the way it looks (i won't be using this fancy word they do, i'm to simple for that), for me it looks great. I'm not so sure about the layout of it. Don't you think that the map is simply a line? As a protoss i dont see a reason to ever go to the middle of the map. I can just defend the choke points with 2-3 FF. Would be very difficult for T or Z to attack, despite expanding towards opponent. TvZ would be similar problem for zergs. You just mine field the chokes and never go to the middle. Gold expos are coming back recently maybe making those middle bases gold would make it more reasonable to take them, or at least make them full on mineral patches. I may be absolutely wrong, dont have any experience with maps. Those were just my first thoughts when i saw it on reddit.
On December 29 2013 02:41 Existor wrote: Why you (and many other mapmakers) can't go away a bit from standard tileset?
• Modify water • Modify day time and light set • Modify trees and doodads • Add something non-standard for this tileset. Experiment with it?
Anyway love these ruins and glad they are used again. Nice map, bot too standard
A few things I would like to say to you:
1. Many mapmakers already mix and match tile sets anyway to achieve a certain visual effect 2. Many mapmakers already play around with lighting, be it colours, fog effects, day/night, etc. 3. Many mapmakers already mix different style doodads to achieve a certain visual effect 4. Blizzard's default tile sets are well constructed and there's nothing wrong with utilizing them as-is
There's nothing more annoying to me than when someone releases a creative work and people complain that it doesn't look like something else. The mapmaker worked hard and wanted to use this visual style for the map.
1. So do you try similar things or just copy-past original tileset with different landscape layout? 2. Give me example of lighting set / colors / fog effects, which aren't standard for any tileset? I can give only some - Cloud Kingdom, which was very blurred and turned into standard light set by tournaments. Check Red City map - this is great example of it. Red water, slighty red lighting - THATs really something new and feels like a completely new and unique map. 3. Same as for 2. 4. Yes, they are. I don't say that there is something wrong with them. I say, that you should experiment more. Check Polar Night - this winter map si different from other winter maps, like Yeonsu or Frost. Frost also is very nice example of non-standardness.
Your work is nice, ruins, landscape layout is also unique for 5 player map. But the problem is that your map isn't memorable, like Neo Planet S or Habitation Station or Frost or Red City. Those maps are nice AND unique.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=421999 - crazy and epic example of how imagination can be used. The map name fits well everything - crazy orange fog of war, zergy doodads in the unpathable zones, greeny light set. That REALLY looks like a nightmare or hell, or probably both.
You wanted constructive criticism? Here it is. I listed tons of examples of what you can try. I don't say that your map is bad, just try to make it EVEN MORE BETTER. Add something, modify something, add many waterfalls, add rain, add slightu darker light set like sunset, or something like that. Make it looking different from Shattered Terrace.
Don't be agressive. Those comments from me about standardness of your map are adressed not only to you. I just want you to add more uniqueness to your work, so each of your work will be memorable and look interesting from eachother.
Good luck and have fun with creating other maps.
That's flat out ridiculous. Too standard? This is the total opposite of standard. And your comments about the aesthetics are kind of ridiculous as well. Lots of mapmakers do those things, and you can't bash a mapmaker for not going way far above and beyond other mapmakers.
I already listed some examples of really unique maps and tries to make map unique looking from others.
Yeah so I'm not sure what you consider standard but I'm pretty sure this is not it
For me, standard maps are just same tileset / light / doodads / etc as original map. Non-standard maps are maps which have something that makes them unique. For example lava rift on the Frost map, or Polar Night lighting with snow everywhere, or Red City light set, red water and buildings in the water or red-textured middle part of the map.
I've said my bit in my initial post, but I do want to clarify for you that I'm not the one you were addressing with your original critique. I'm a different person from the OP and wasn't being aggressive for critique laid upon myself. I only happened upon this thread and got annoyed by your nonsense.
Also to note, the fact that you could give numerous examples of maps that use non-standard tile sets/lighting is case in point to what I was saying: mapmakers already do that sort of stuff.
Semi-big update comes along,and suddenly, there's forcefields, lots of them. Decided to do something about the biased air space some mains had compared to others. Thus, Every main & natural got around the same amount of airspace around them now. Another thing I did, was tweking with the water settings, which gave a broad performance boost across the board. I will eventually update the video preview with these new changes. edit: Aaand it's up.
Hehe. Originally I wanted to create an wall of trees & shubbery, but I found it too time consuming, and thus decided to just wall it off with some protoss floating forcefield tech.
I might eventually finish that, or just transfer the theme to a new map.
Lastest change I have made with the lastest update, is being able to block main ramps with only 2x Supply depots & 1x barrack. I'll update the main post asap with this new change. but for now...
I have a question for you All!
Poll: What race, do You think, will find it the most insecure on this map?
Terran (0)
0%
Protoss (0)
0%
Zerg (3)
50%
About the same between all 3 races. (3)
50%
6 total votes
Your vote: What race, do You think, will find it the most insecure on this map?
(Vote): Terran (Vote): Protoss (Vote): Zerg (Vote): About the same between all 3 races.
Edit: OP updated, not the video tho... just imagine there being a 2x2 rock ontop of the ramps! :b Edit2: Video updated
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