Unique Features: High Harassment opportunities with drop pods/zones Army heal points at the "Infirmary"s--NO Xel'Naga Watch Towers -- Scouting REQUIRED Custom music to help set the stage (more incoming as this map reaches finalization)--original music is still present
Base Count: 10 Normal, 2 Half -- (5.5 bases per person) Bounds: 148 x 120 Aesthetics: 937 Doodads Textures: Daelaam Ark Plates Kaldir Ice Cracked Kaldir Snow Icy Kaldir Rock Kaldir Ice Crumbled Korhal Platform Panels Medium Kaldir Ice Light Korhal Platform Small Detail Korhal Platform Manmade Cliffs Kaldir Organic Cliffs
Songs: O Fortune from Carmina Burana Fortune Plango from Carmina Burana Dream of the Shore Near Another World from Chrono Cross Time's Scar from Chrono Trigger Water Ruins by Rare Studios LLC from Jet Force Gemini Overview
Base and Aesthetic Shots (Caution: High Number of Images) + Show Spoiler +
Glad to see this done. Dat file size is probably huge cuz of the music, but maybe it;s worth it :-P I am a lover of certain video game music, esp. if it's games I've played a long time ago, the nostalgia factor is OP.
On December 03 2012 07:37 Fatam wrote: Glad to see this done. Dat file size is probably huge cuz of the music, but maybe it;s worth it :-P I am a lover of certain video game music, esp. if it's games I've played a long time ago, the nostalgia factor is OP.
I really like the look of this map. Looks difficult to get a third, but with alot of options. Hopefully lots of back and forth and harassment potential. Good job.
We need maps with interesting features like the healing thing, dunno about that specifically. I always imagined a map with a narrow tunnel that leads into the main or something but there are constant psi storms generated by the map all over it
Do the xel'naga healing pads in HOTS heal all units, or just bio? What about air units?
I think they're pretty cool, but not 100% sure about where they should be placed. I mean, maybe they should be slightly out of the way instead of in the middle so that you have to make a choice whether or not to use them - they aren't just on the way.
Custom music is nice, but i do hope you got your right to use it. If not Blizzard will remove the map and bash your account faster than you can say "Copyright". Well once they find out.
I really dig the layout, particularly the very thin paths to the third and fourth from the natural. With armies that clump as tight as they do in SC2, oftentimes rendering map features like traditional 'chokes' ignorable, why not finally work in a few small paths that force single file (or shoulder-to-shoulder) unit movement? Such map features should promote more army movement decision-making, the breaking of small task forces off the main army, and interesting scouting and harassment.
If, at the time of an attack against your third, you had neglected setting up defense at the green rectangle and instead had your whole army located at say, the green circle, you would have two defensive options. You could immediately rush your army along the lines of the thick green arrows, or you could move through the extremely small choke along the thin green line. In the first case, you'd be sacrificing the position of actually being between your expansion and the hostile army. In the second case you'd risk your defending army showing up single file instead of together in strength. Incidentally, both options encourage allocating some defense to the green rectangle in the first place, which rewards the spread out army. With clever layouts like this, you begin to feel map features actually matter.
I know you can drop on the green check marks, but can you walk units on the arms reaching out from the main, highlighted in orange? What about the spot in purple? I can't quite tell if those blocks are texture or doodads.
I am not sure about the healing place... I feel that it gives terran an advantage if they decide to camp there with siege tanks.
There are other ways of getting around a slow moving mech army on this map. Due to LOS mechanics and the use of at least some medivacs in siege tank play (assuming standard WoL play) -- I am not particularly concerned about this. Figuring out how to respond to your opponent is part of the game. As for HotS play -- unknown as of yet because HotS is what this map is played on.
Do the xel'naga healing pads in HOTS heal all units, or just bio? What about air units?
Xel'Naga Healing pads heal ALL units.
Custom music is nice, but i do hope you got your right to use it. If not Blizzard will remove the map and bash your account faster than you can say "Copyright". Well once they find out.
I tried to pick music that was old enough that the copyright should no longer be an issue. We'll see.
A few questions about the pathing:
The orange areas CANNOT be accessed by anything. The purple is accessible to small units such as reapers, zealots, probes, etc. . .
You should make it more clear on which zones are pathable and which are not, will help for understanding the map while first playing it, maybe put a few doodads there?
About the healing pads, are they a new normal melee map feature in HOTS or are they a thing you made? Cause they would really favor Protoss since Protoss is the only race that can heal their health. While other races will of course enjoy the faster / free heal, Protoss will enjoy it much much more. Not saying that would make it imbalanced, but it is to consider.
About the map itself, it looks really cool but from your pics it seems FFE will take 2 canons to cover the back door and the front door, which while not being game breaking it does make it much harder to defend versus 6 lings from 9-14 pools (you wall the entrance versus these unlike 6-8 where you build a cannon in your mineral line).
I dunno how the drop locations will work out but I am pretty sure they will make for interesting games, overall I think the map would be fun to play on and to view games on, I hope HOTS tournies will consider using it!
On December 04 2012 00:25 moskonia wrote: You should make it more clear on which zones are pathable and which are not, will help for understanding the map while first playing it, maybe put a few doodads there?
About the healing pads, are they a new normal melee map feature in HOTS or are they a thing you made? Cause they would really favor Protoss since Protoss is the only race that can heal their health. While other races will of course enjoy the faster / free heal, Protoss will enjoy it much much more. Not saying that would make it imbalanced, but it is to consider.
About the map itself, it looks really cool but from your pics it seems FFE will take 2 canons to cover the back door and the front door, which while not being game breaking it does make it much harder to defend versus 6 lings from 9-14 pools (you wall the entrance versus these unlike 6-8 where you build a cannon in your mineral line).
I dunno how the drop locations will work out but I am pretty sure they will make for interesting games, overall I think the map would be fun to play on and to view games on, I hope HOTS tournies will consider using it!
I do need to make it more apparent in areas that you cannot traverse there. I will look into it -- I just got excited and wanted to release the map
The healing pads are a normal melee map feature in HotS. I double checked it. People keep questioning my use of it so allow me to explain. Many times in the current WoL games (and from what I have seen in many HotS games as well) you get one (maybe 2) large engagements that determines the winner. Often the losing player will try to retreat and re-cuperate, but this is difficult to do because of reinforcement mechanics along with the now damaged retreating army forces taking up supply, thus in effect even though you might get up to the same supply as your enemy you retreat from, you are still a weaker force. The healing pads present an opportunity to recuperate along the path of your retreat towards your reinforcement lines, giving the defender an opportunity to not flat out lose. Placement could be played with but right now I like it being in the middle because it encourages you to retreat in specific pathways, allowing the opponent to possibly split his army into multi-pronged aggression at that point of to continue pursuit of your forces. The idea is to encourage back and forth.
Also -- Protoss is not the only race that can heal their health. Terran has medivac's/SCV's and zerg has burrow heal + transfusions.....
My FFE pics arn't the best. There is probably a better one out there that I just didn't think of when making the photos. As for the early ling attacks -- I really don't think people should be flat out given an expansion. That is a personal opinion though -- but I think they can be overcome with good play -- good players reward, bad players punished, and the in-betweens will figure it out. For the record I am a bad player
You misunderstood me, Protoss is the only race that can't heal, only their shield regenerate while their actual health cannot heal itself, but the heal pads change that and make it for Protoss to be able to actually able to heal their units (unless the pads only heal shields in which case Protoss earns the least from them since the shields regenerate pretty fast out of combat anyways.
About the open natural, I think it would be OK, but it would make early pressure and all ins much stronger in certain situations, but I don't think it will be broken in high level play since with good map control and scouting you will be able to stop things just like on regular maps.
On December 04 2012 02:13 moskonia wrote: You misunderstood me, Protoss is the only race that can't heal, only their shield regenerate while their actual health cannot heal itself, but the heal pads change that and make it for Protoss to be able to actually able to heal their units (unless the pads only heal shields in which case Protoss earns the least from them since the shields regenerate pretty fast out of combat anyways.
About the open natural, I think it would be OK, but it would make early pressure and all ins much stronger in certain situations, but I don't think it will be broken in high level play since with good map control and scouting you will be able to stop things just like on regular maps.
Gotcha. The heal pads are for ALL races and are inclusive of both HP AND SHIELDS.
As for the nat. I have played mutliple games on the map (of course) and seen multiple games at higher levels of play. I don't think it will be a problem as you can easily gain view of that back route and/or prepare a defense there. Zerg can put overlords above it to see, spine crawler/queen defens -- and protoss can cannon fairly easily (albeit tightly/compactly) -- and terran has their mobile marine force + bunkers. Should be perfectly fine. I expect FFE's on the map to be a little more difficult which is fine in my opinion because I don't think greed builds should also be the safest builds. It will certainly be fun to watch -- especially if we were to see very high level games (ala semi-pro/pro level). But who knows......
On December 03 2012 23:17 SigmaFiE wrote: I tried to pick music that was old enough that the copyright should no longer be an issue. We'll see.
Even if the piece itself is public domain, whatever performed it still holds artistic rights to the specific performance.
That is correct. I am currently seeking some legal advice on the matter but if there is a cease & desist letter and/or Blizzard removes my map from the pool I will remove the infringing materials and re-publish. I am hopeful that it is a "too small to care" type deal.
As for the map itself, I have updated it to version 0.8 to include aesthetic changes that make the non-pathable areas around the thirds more apparent as being non-pathable. I had a test game played last night and the players claimed they were experiencing lag. Whether this is a direct result of the map or of server instability I am not sure, as this map does not push boundaries in terms of doodad count (the majority of which scale with a player's user settings).
Replay pack of the map thus far. Games are not the best but it will give you little bit of a feel maybe?..... Still waiting on more test games before making changes. + Show Spoiler +
On December 09 2012 03:07 OxyGenesis wrote: I love this map! The heal pads are a really interesting and unique idea. Cool expansion pattern too. One of my fave maps from the past few months.
So after discussing it with legal counsel I will be removing the custom music from this map until further notice later today. This is to avoid copyright action against myself personally. However, I will be attempting to find the current copyright holders in an attempt to get express written permission to use these pieces of music within the map. Hopefully that happens.
Hey I just casted a couple of games on this map and I have to say its one hell of a nice one, even though I have some minor complaint about the natural, that is that FFE location is not quite obvious as it should be. Its OK if the map does not favor FFE, but it should be obvious on how you expand at least.
After some tries I found a perfect spot for a cannon so it barely covers both the forge and a pylon just behind the bushes near the minerals, I think you should highlight that place, so its easier to FFE as a Protoss that does not do research.
Other than that the map is simply awesome, and even though the players did not use the cliffs so much, the heal shrines are really cool and I wish this map or another map that uses them will be used in a major tournament.
The healing shrines are in the editor so any map can use them easily. I'm guessing we'll see a lot of them in the future, esp. once HOTS releases and the graphic for them is completed/fixed. Anyway, cool map.
I see it the same as high yield gas which was barely used, and was not used at all by Blizzard, but the heal shrine have really a huge amount of possible use.
I watched both games. Thoroughly enjoyed them. The natural's backdoor worked just as well as I had hoped it would. And the air paths to allow for drop play worked really well too I thought. Thanks so much for using and getting these games. I can't wait to watch them with the commentary (just so I can hear yelling if there is any).
On February 06 2013 15:16 Unsane wrote: This map has its own playlist? Talk about thinking outside the box...
EDIT: At first, one might want to claim 'daybreak clone syndrome' but the backdoor route outside of your natural certainly isnt there on daybreak.
Please stop with the whole "Daybreak clone syndrome", its not a real thing since even without a backdoor this map would still be extremely different than Daybreak... Even small differences can make the map to play very differently.
On February 06 2013 15:16 Unsane wrote: This map has its own playlist? Talk about thinking outside the box...
EDIT: At first, one might want to claim 'daybreak clone syndrome' but the backdoor route outside of your natural certainly isnt there on daybreak.
It HAD its own playlist. I removed it due to copyright issues that I have yet to sort out unfortunately. Although I am contemplating putting some music form the original starcraft into it as a filler for the time being.
As for the Daybreak clone stuff. Even if it was (and I know you're not saying it is -- I did not design it to be a clone either) -- it plays VERY aggressively. Which is why I like it as a map.
Hey I want to report a bug, the colossus can't step on the healing shrine (although they are still healed if they are in the edge of it), I don't know if Blizzard needs to fix it or you can do it yourself, but it should be addressed.
On February 18 2013 11:05 moskonia wrote: Hey I want to report a bug, the colossus can't step on the healing shrine (although they are still healed if they are in the edge of it), I don't know if Blizzard needs to fix it or you can do it yourself, but it should be addressed.
Thank you for finding and pointing out this bug moskonia. I tested every unit in the melee (and some that are not) on it and the colossus is the only one that cannot step on it. I checked the data of both units and netiher seems to be incorrect or something that would cause that. I will post into the beta forums.
Did Blizzard fix the heal shrines? Because I did not see it used anywhere, even not in the single player so I assume it was an abandoned feature like high yield gas. Hope it will be fixed either by Blizzard or by someone else, because having a tournament map with this feature would be seriously awesome.
Anyways the map is still great and its nice seeing it used at least in small tournaments.
On March 29 2013 20:54 DARKING wrote: I really liked this map. I'm gonna use it for my small local team league.
Thanks! I really appreciate that. I should caution you though that it may induce lag on some computers due to the weather effects and other high amounts of doodads in areas. I really should go back and optimize it. When is your tournament (perhaps I can do that before than)?
On March 29 2013 21:54 moskonia wrote: Did Blizzard fix the heal shrines? Because I did not see it used anywhere, even not in the single player so I assume it was an abandoned feature like high yield gas. Hope it will be fixed either by Blizzard or by someone else, because having a tournament map with this feature would be seriously awesome.
Anyways the map is still great and its nice seeing it used at least in small tournaments.
As far as I am aware there has not been a fix to the heal shrines Moskonia. So it is up to someone to fix it. I will say that I do not see it as a terrible bug though simply because the Collosi still get healed by it and the range is long enough that it should not inhibit their damage output too much.
I am still working on the music section and trying to get all the appropriate copyrights. Hopefully one day I can do that :D This weekend though I am going to put special effort in at least getting some fun brood war music (or other Blizzard music :D) in there.
On March 29 2013 20:54 DARKING wrote: I really liked this map. I'm gonna use it for my small local team league.
Thanks! I really appreciate that. I should caution you though that it may induce lag on some computers due to the weather effects and other high amounts of doodads in areas. I really should go back and optimize it. When is your tournament (perhaps I can do that before than)?
No set date yet, but maybe mid to late April it will start. I ran it on my laptop (which is not an awesome one to begin with) and I didn't have fps problems, seemed to run fine. Then again, it is no Metropolis, which is like the standard for performance in maps.
So this map has now been optimized as much as possible for the moment. I am sad to report only 1 piece of custom music made it into the map due to file size implications (sorry Corwin -- the JFG song was cut! I was rooting for it to but had other considerations to make). I was able to whittle some unnecessary screenshots out of it though. It is up and running on all servers so go have fun!
Overall I find this a well done map. I do like most of the layout and the healing shrine could really add some unique gameplay into the map.
I absolutely love the Main - Nat - 3rd (full base 3rd) expansion layout. I like how the 3rd is laid out with the tiny little choke covered in LoSB which allows you to easily get to the 3rd, but makes it much more difficult for the enemy to attack with it. Also, could allow runbys as well from the attacker which would be neat. Especially speedlings.
I know the whole cliff doodad ice spikes are getting overused a lot, but I really think the map, aesthetically, would benefit from having the cliff doodads around the northwest and southeast edges of the map. It wouldn't be overusing them, but it'd add more to the rugged ice environment.
I think the 5th & 6th (the bases in the northwest and southwest corners) are a little dull. I think they both shouldn't be on the same cliff level, either make one on the 3rd or 1st level, just to make the overall pathing between those bases a little more interesting.
Lastly, maybe some LoSB in the center of the map to kind of "break" it up. Would also make moving through the center a little more risky.
Overall though, solid map, looks great, should play great and very interested in seeing how those healing shrines play out. Got any replays of that in action?
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