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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin |
On September 08 2012 18:25 Meltage wrote:I made this ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/K7wHq.jpg) Then Sam made me do this (heavily influenced me by painting on the overview, although it came up a bit different from what he imagined. It didnt look like CK on his paintings  ) + Show Spoiler +because he didnt think the middle in my map would work. I need more analysis (on the first concept) and see if theres something there to keep or not. The core concept, apart from the kidna generic but solid main-nat-third, is about the forward 4th being possible to take and hold in some matchups, partly beacuse of the distance to the opponent bases being ok, and partly beacuse the shrotest attack path being risky through the middle. Being a wide map, the towers help defensive scouting. I picture early game being about attacking through the middle while mostly only scouting the flanks, then switches to atticking through the wider attack paths, defending at the high ground ramps / chokes or the open ground respectively. What makes the map special, is that you in the mid-late game could attack through the narrow middle in the right moments, but always with some risk involved. The map is 152x156 and nat-to-nat is somwhere around 150ish between the mineral lines, but obviously shorter between the nat ramps. Im aware that the distance between your own bases needs some tweaking (third should be a bit more open to harrass, CW 4th should be closer and cw 5th closer still). A ccw half-base 4th along with the forward 4th being a hals base is an idea Im fond of and will look into keeping. In a big map like this, 7 bases per player is better than 6, while the resources stays the pretty much the same.
Your concept is much more interesting to me than the samro painting one (sry samro). But as you say it has some spacing issues with base distances. I think you could shrink the horizontal dimension and reduce the extreme distance between lategame bases without negatively affecting the early and midgame distances too much. The concept of moving out to high ground paths later in the game is cool but I don't see it mattering much because there's just too much space to cover as a defender. Position to intercept attacks mostly amounts to camping your newest base, and you can only extend out further onto the map if you have very current scouting info on their army movement. So if the map was a little smaller it would help people position effectively.
I'd also like to see a little more variation in tactical terrain rather than just ramps and a lot of gradually varied openness. Like some bridges, double bridges, dotted unpathable, some negative space for air units, etc.
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here's my current
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lR6Rv.jpg)
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On September 08 2012 18:25 Meltage wrote:I made this
too generic for you :p
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oKjFx.jpg)
My city grows ever ruineder, but I'm thinking about starting over in favour of a more directed approach.
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On September 09 2012 08:43 Syphon8 wrote:My city grows ever ruineder, but I'm thinking about starting over in favour of a more directed approach.
Hmmm, I don't know, I personally think it looks great! 
I was thinking of making another map, will definitely post it here if i decide to make one! :D
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Keep going! This looks so sick Syphon
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On September 09 2012 08:43 Syphon8 wrote:
-image-
My city grows ever ruineder, but I'm thinking about starting over in favour of a more directed approach.
I like how the overlord and nexus are both on the same team. Looks like someone Neuraled a probe.
But seriously, great work. Looks amazing.
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Hi all, long time lurker here.
I started with this map thinking that there has to be a way to make a backdoor to the main work.
I created a ledge that lead up to the backdoor, making it easier to defend from the high ground. Then, in order for the ledge to have a role beyond the early game as a rush attack path, I decided to put the third at the end of the ledge.
Then I rotated the concept to make a 4 player map.
Please comment on balance.
I was thinking I'll dig into textures and doodads when the layout is fairly balanced.
It's a quite big map, playable map size is170x168 (full: 176x176).
One watchtower in the middle of the map.
16 full bases.
Grateful for comments and suggestions
Thanks
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1ZafM.jpg)
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On September 09 2012 23:59 Fenin wrote:Hi all, long time lurker here. I started with this map thinking that there has to be a way to make a backdoor to the main work. I created a ledge that lead up to the backdoor, making it easier to defend from the high ground. Then, in order for the ledge to have a role beyond the early game as a rush attack path, I decided to put the third at the end of the ledge. Then I rotated the concept to make a 4 player map. Please comment on balance. I was thinking I'll dig into textures and doodads when the layout is fairly balanced. It's a quite big map, playable map size is170x168 (full: 176x176). One watchtower in the middle of the map. 16 full bases. Grateful for comments and suggestions Thanks
hi and welcome.
so with backdoors, the main concern isnt necessarily defense, but more of timing. ill use your map as an example. the general distance to either the front or back is about the same, so the attacker can choose which side they want. this means to delay the enemy, you will need do double wall, and for protoss and zerg, this can be very difficult.
a more rear facing backdoor or base means it will take longer for the enemy to traverse the distance. vital time which may allow a gateway block to go up, or a spine crawler to finish. yours is kind of to the rear, but the way the terrain is laid, its not that much further. but then what about a smaller map, or even an attacking protoss where they just warp in at your base? you can delay the entry through the rocks through alternative methods - you can stack rocks, meaning instead of one, they might have to break through 3 or 4 rocks. my recent wip, seen above, used that method. the only way to get through stacked rocks quickly is using splash damage, so siege tanks or colossus. some others have used cloaked eggs, a bw concept, where you need detection to kill the eggs (which are also heavily armored or high hp, just to mimic rocks).
for the map itself ... yes, its a bit too large, and far too chokey.
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I agree with a176, though your base layout does seem well tailored to a 4p rotational map. I think with some widening of paths everywhere and bringing all the bases closer together, as well as those changes to the backdoor placement, this could make a pretty interesting map. All of the open water spaces don't have to be nearly that big, though I'm guessing you're a little worried about siege tanks pressuring the third.
There's also an issue in that when you hold three bases, it's much longer for the defender to get between the two entrances than it is for an attacker. This can be interesting but also frustrating when it's at such an extreme. Finding ways to make the backdoor even farther away while reducing the travel distance from the third to the natural is quite a challenge, so stacking rocks may be the way to go. About eggs, remember that workers can mineral walk through units. Personally, this is why I use eggs, to enable scouting after a wall-in, but it's something to be aware of.
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This is not what I had drawn meltage - it at least not what I had intended. I had pointed out numerous problems I had seen in your design and my drawing not only changed the centre significantly, but also the distribution of bases. Anyway.. just for the record 
Lefix, it is a pity that many bases share the same area of control. And them again it is difficult for the defender to move around effectively. It appears likened that at least, possibly interesting when one us able to manage split forces.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PGnpP.jpg)
primary textures
belshir dark grass
aiur small tiles
tarsonis concrete
will be adding tarsonis grass later
detail:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5y2iL.jpg)
(lighting is different/out of date)
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Hmm that lighting is pretty interesting, even if it's out of date or w/e.
Looks like I'm looking at a watercolor painting or something, with that blurred pink look to it. Pretty cool, actually.
edit: then again the blurring may only be because of the bad quality of the jpg LOL
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no, lol. theres a bloom option in lighting, gives you that effect. trade off is that it seems to kill small detailing like bump mapping
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Listening to feedback, while keeping the core concept in mind, this is the latest:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/29Rqz.jpg)
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Would be interested to see the watchtower ranges shown there. Looks like a fairly interesting map. The main negative-ish comment I would have is that I have never seen the first 5 bases that close together.
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@a176 and RFDaemoniac
Thank you for your feedback, I'll start hammering away on these changes and see what I come up with
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I like what you did on the wings a176. Looks good.
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A few changes. I enlarged the main, cleaned up the natural, widened the side ramps, and added some rocks. Protoss can now choke off the natural between the rocks and ramp with two 3x3 buildings and a pylon. I'm still concerned about the size of the main and the center expansions, but I don't know how I'd make them any bigger without changing the entire map.
+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/widpT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tkLh5.jpg)
