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Work In Progress Melee Maps - Page 2
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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin | ||
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
On September 03 2012 10:52 GDR wrote: @NegativeZero I would do a large doodad structure in the middle with a watchtower that prevents pathing straight through, but can be taken from both sides. To give a bit more map presence for Terran and Protoss vs. Zerg mid-early game. I would then put two medium sized doodad structures. One to the north, and one to the south (about where those highgrounds you have now are). I would not put anything outside the natural ramp it feels too tight there already. I would also move the corner foruth base off the highground, and put it on the same level as the natural. Feels cramped up there, and I don't like the single ramp. My two cents, but do whatever obviously. Edit: Maybe some LOS too if you can squeeze them in somewhere. I'll definitely consider this. I normally wouldn't want to have unpathable terrain in the center since it can lead to base race situations, but the watchtower combined with the small size of the map could make it work. If I remove the structures outside the natural ramp I could replace those with the LoS blocker arrangements of the original map, which I had actually forgotten about lol. Not sure how it will affect balance, but I'd like to try to keep the high ground 4th with the single ramp since that was (sort of) a feature of the original map. I'll try to get others' opinions, though, and if it proves to be a real problem I'll definitely adjust it. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8pNLj.jpg) Additional images: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GzwLv.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pbDm3.jpg) I wanted to try leaving a very narrow choke through the center to access the watchtower in order to keep the short rush distance (it is Steppes of War after all  ) but I'm still willing to use GDR's original suggestion if this doesn't work.I'm pretty sure the small structures to the left and right are necessary, otherwise it's just too open in those areas. Edit: forgot the LoS blockers again lol, I'll put them where they were on the original Steppes of War | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
I like the way it is now though. ^^ You should try to differentiate the low ground and mid ground textures by lightening/darkening them compared to each other. | ||
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Johanaz
Denmark363 Posts
Instead of posting an overview pic, I thought I'd try and post a replay instead. I think my style makes some people misread map and choke sizes, and more often than not I get feedback based upon wrong assumptions. Which bothers me. Which is why I'm trying this approach. Replay: Frostfangs - Masters ZvP In-game screens: + Show Spoiler [image heavy!] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4LLPn.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Flvk1.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zil8E.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SHMaJ.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EMy9g.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dM9hN.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RgUpx.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j5kCV.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cMd8X.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Sbion.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/593w2.jpg) Key feedback from the players: 1. maybe remove some outer paths. 2. highlight primary paths so it's easily readable on the minimap. 3. enlarge main to help terran 4. make 3rds a bit easier to hold 5. shrink the overall map size a bit (I take this with a grain of salt because they spawned long cross) I agree with some of it, but somethings made the game more fun for me as observer. I'd like to hear your opinons, thanks! | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
Should I put LOS at the top of the giant ramp? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fR82j.jpg) | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
@Aunvilgod: Nice remake overall. I think the 12/6 bases are too open, especially since they're so far from the mains. Keep in mind that on the original map those bases had a choke which could be walled with a single pylon, though I wouldn't go quite so far here. Also that would help reduce the somewhat high openness of the surrounding area. In general I think securing a 5th will be extremely difficult, especially since it is rather ambiguous which set of 4ths/5ths each player should take. For instance, it seems like the corner bases would be the logical 4ths, but then the low ground 5th after that can be sieged from the opponent's main. On the other hand, if you take the low ground base next to your main as the 4th, then your 5th will be right next to the high ground controlled by your opponent. I'm not sure what the best way to fix this would be - probably you'll need to move the low ground bases away from the adjacent mains and possibly widen the map slightly to accommodate this. | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On September 05 2012 04:07 -NegativeZero- wrote: @Aunvilgod: Nice remake overall. I think the 12/6 bases are too open, especially since they're so far from the mains. Keep in mind that on the original map those bases had a choke which could be walled with a single pylon, though I wouldn't go quite so far here. Also that would help reduce the somewhat high openness of the surrounding area. In general I think securing a 5th will be extremely difficult, especially since it is rather ambiguous which set of 4ths/5ths each player should take. For instance, it seems like the corner bases would be the logical 4ths, but then the low ground 5th after that can be sieged from the opponent's main. On the other hand, if you take the low ground base next to your main as the 4th, then your 5th will be right next to the high ground controlled by your opponent. I'm not sure what the best way to fix this would be - probably you'll need to move the low ground bases away from the adjacent mains and possibly widen the map slightly to accommodate this. You obviously are not able to hold 5 bases at one time with ease, you will have to focus on one. This is a map for scrappy games which are, in my opinion, very enjoyable to watch. I may take the 12/6 o´clock base out of siege range and make it unreachable for colossi. This is actually quite likely. By the way, in the current picture the tower covers a bit of the highground so it easier to attack up that ramp. I could place tower in an other way so it covers even more of that highground and the big ramp as well: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k9g3P.jpg) | ||
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Vetro
Italy13 Posts
This is my second full fledged map, if you want to try it, it's uploaded on the EU servers. Any comments on balance? I don't have much experience making maps so this is my main concern. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bjqgE.jpg) Aesthetics: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/24v9y.jpg) | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On September 05 2012 06:44 Vetro wrote: Secret Dam This is my second full fledged map, if you want to try it, it's uploaded on the EU servers. Any comments on balance? I don't have much experience making maps so this is my main concern. Aesthetics: + Show Spoiler + Your map is probably Protoss favoured, due to the easy 3rd and the tight chokes. I would suggest to increase the size of ramps and the center pathway. However I don´t see any obvoius flaws that would instantly break the map. Good job for a first map! | ||
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
On September 05 2012 06:57 Aunvilgod wrote: I've honestly come to believe that this whole '3 easily defended bases + lots of chokes favours Protoss' idea is very outdated, especially the 3 bases. It stems from a time where Z players had a lot of troubles contesting a 3base Protoss army, nowadays most Protoss players seek to do 2base timings on the Zerg's third.Your map is probably Protoss favoured, due to the easy 3rd and the tight chokes. I would suggest to increase the size of ramps and the center pathway. However I don´t see any obvoius flaws that would instantly break the map. Good job for a first map! | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On September 05 2012 11:13 SiskosGoatee wrote: I've honestly come to believe that this whole '3 easily defended bases + lots of chokes favours Protoss' idea is very outdated, especially the 3 bases. It stems from a time where Z players had a lot of troubles contesting a 3base Protoss army, nowadays most Protoss players seek to do 2base timings on the Zerg's third. Usually the momentum swings into favour of the defender. While easy 3rds are less important, they still are relevant. a few sentries can shut that ramp completely down. A Protoss COULD easily go for 3 bases. | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On September 05 2012 20:15 Aunvilgod wrote: Usually the momentum swings into favour of the defender. While easy 3rds are less important, they still are relevant. a few sentries can shut that ramp completely down. A Protoss COULD easily go for 3 bases. possibly protoss won't. the push distance is not very long and quite narrow. anything after the third is really complicated to take and hold, so i do not expect too much except maxing from three bases or timing pushes. what i would do to make this map better is quite simple. rotate third a bit clockwise, pull the nat with it in order to bring the main closer to the corner. this would give you space to have the fourth closer to the main/nat setup (main hugging). Then you decide if the fifth and sixth should belong to the left or the right side and shuffle them arround accordingly. voila, map is much more solid. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pVPTm.png) after that i would suggest you rearrange the forward base and think about having more space in some areas where you want to fight with mid game armies. today players easily max from three bases quite early if they want to. pm me if you need some ideas  | ||
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Vetro
Italy13 Posts
I was actually worried some passages might be too small for maxed army engagements. I will most likely increase the size of the center path, and have a look at some chokes as suggested by aunvilgod. what i would do to make this map better is quite simple. rotate third a bit clockwise, pull the nat with it in order to bring the main closer to the corner. this would give you space to have the fourth closer to the main/nat setup (main hugging). Then you decide if the fifth and sixth should belong to the left or the right side and shuffle them arround accordingly. voila, map is much more solid. The fourth indeed doesn't look very easy to hold (especially compared to the third). I will probably try to push the fourth closer to the main (and adjust the remaining 2 expos), but I don't want to discourage aggression too much. (about the protoss: I heard many times that 3 easy bases generally favor protoss, now ,however, it doesn't look as terrible as back in 2011, that's for sure) | ||
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Syphon8
Canada298 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DaBaA.jpg) Going for the feeling of a ruined city in the jungle. I know that the lighting isn't exactly great yet. EDIT -- Further progress + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HmVYv.jpg) EDIT 2 -- Last one, I promise. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3scQb.jpg) | ||
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RFDaemoniac
United States544 Posts
On September 06 2012 01:01 Syphon8 wrote: Starting texture/doodad work on The Collected Works. + Show Spoiler + Going for the feeling of a ruined city in the jungle. I know that the lighting isn't exactly great yet. EDIT -- Further progress + Show Spoiler + EDIT 2 -- Last one, I promise. + Show Spoiler + The lighting on the 2nd edit is gorgeous. I haven't played with lighting on any of my maps, definitely something to look at. @Siskos: There isn't a whole lot of open terrain in the map except for outside the third, which makes that third pretty hard to hold and the rest of the map feel cramped. However even though the map feels cramped, it feels huge. I like the idea of having tighter chokes in the middle and being more open around the edges, but this doesn't seem to succeed in that. I don't see a base that I would like to take as a third as protoss, since the one with tighter chokes has the high ground behind it and is VERY close to the open third. Why did you choose to make all expansions after the main/natural 6m2g? EDIT: you can also make a nice overview with data->export map image | ||
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Syphon8
Canada298 Posts
On September 06 2012 05:28 RFDaemoniac wrote: The lighting on the 2nd edit is gorgeous. I haven't played with lighting on any of my maps, definitely something to look at. See, that's what I thought but a bunch of people said they hated it. It'll probably end up a mixture between 2 and 3. | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On September 06 2012 05:35 Syphon8 wrote: See, that's what I thought but a bunch of people said they hated it. It'll probably end up a mixture between 2 and 3. I suggest to keep it simple. Less is more. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On September 04 2012 23:38 Johanaz wrote: I had a masters ZvP test game on my new map. Both players complained about hard to hold 3rds, map too big, watchtowers not covering all attack paths. But they both liked the map and enjoyed playing on it. I had a great time observing that crazy 31 minutes game with a good deal of action. Instead of posting an overview pic, I thought I'd try and post a replay instead. I think my style makes some people misread map and choke sizes, and more often than not I get feedback based upon wrong assumptions. Which bothers me. Which is why I'm trying this approach. Replay: Frostfangs - Masters ZvP In-game screens: + Show Spoiler [image heavy!] + Key feedback from the players: 1. maybe remove some outer paths. 2. highlight primary paths so it's easily readable on the minimap. 3. enlarge main to help terran 4. make 3rds a bit easier to hold 5. shrink the overall map size a bit (I take this with a grain of salt because they spawned long cross) I agree with some of it, but somethings made the game more fun for me as observer. I'd like to hear your opinons, thanks! with no overview i basically have no idea what the hell is going on in any of those screens and how they relate to the complaints | ||
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Syphon8
Canada298 Posts
On September 06 2012 05:42 Aunvilgod wrote: I suggest to keep it simple. Less is more. I'm trying. Currently on pace for around 2000 doodads. EDIT - Another huge go of progress. I hope I get this done for MotM. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZlCHU.jpg) | ||
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