Work In Progress Melee Maps - Page 2

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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin

SiskosGoatee

Albania1482 Posts

September 03 2012 04:06 GMT

#21

Sure:

-NegativeZero-

United States2141 Posts

September 03 2012 04:25 GMT

#22

On September 03 2012 10:52 GDR wrote:
@NegativeZero
I would do a large doodad structure in the middle with a watchtower that prevents pathing straight through, but can be taken from both sides. To give a bit more map presence for Terran and Protoss vs. Zerg mid-early game.

I would then put two medium sized doodad structures. One to the north, and one to the south (about where those highgrounds you have now are). I would not put anything outside the natural ramp it feels too tight there already.

I would also move the corner foruth base off the highground, and put it on the same level as the natural. Feels cramped up there, and I don't like the single ramp.

My two cents, but do whatever obviously.

Edit: Maybe some LOS too if you can squeeze them in somewhere.

I'll definitely consider this. I normally wouldn't want to have unpathable terrain in the center since it can lead to base race situations, but the watchtower combined with the small size of the map could make it work. If I remove the structures outside the natural ramp I could replace those with the LoS blocker arrangements of the original map, which I had actually forgotten about lol.

Not sure how it will affect balance, but I'd like to try to keep the high ground 4th with the single ramp since that was (sort of) a feature of the original map. I'll try to get others' opinions, though, and if it proves to be a real problem I'll definitely adjust it.

-NegativeZero-

United States2141 Posts

September 04 2012 00:08 GMT

#23

Additional images:
+ Show Spoiler +

I wanted to try leaving a very narrow choke through the center to access the watchtower in order to keep the short rush distance (it is Steppes of War after all

) but I'm still willing to use GDR's original suggestion if this doesn't work.

I'm pretty sure the small structures to the left and right are necessary, otherwise it's just too open in those areas.

Edit: forgot the LoS blockers again lol, I'll put them where they were on the original Steppes of War

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

September 04 2012 10:36 GMT

#24

@negativezero: I would not use GDR's watchtower idea unless the obscuring doodad structure is rather small, about 4-6 squares on either side. This is for two reasons. One, you already mentioned, a long split path would be bad for the map (generally bad, extra bad here I feel). Second, any tower that is blocked from either side is terran imba, and zerg is always at a disadvantage. It can work depending on the map design but I don't like it here (unless the distance to the other side is very short).

I like the way it is now though. ^^

You should try to differentiate the low ground and mid ground textures by lightening/darkening them compared to each other.

Johanaz

Denmark363 Posts

September 04 2012 14:38 GMT

#25

I had a masters ZvP test game on my new map. Both players complained about hard to hold 3rds, map too big, watchtowers not covering all attack paths. But they both liked the map and enjoyed playing on it. I had a great time observing that crazy 31 minutes game with a good deal of action.

Instead of posting an overview pic, I thought I'd try and post a replay instead. I think my style makes some people misread map and choke sizes, and more often than not I get feedback based upon wrong assumptions. Which bothers me. Which is why I'm trying this approach.

Replay: Frostfangs - Masters ZvP

In-game screens: + Show Spoiler [image heavy!] +

Key feedback from the players:

1. maybe remove some outer paths.
2. highlight primary paths so it's easily readable on the minimap.
3. enlarge main to help terran
4. make 3rds a bit easier to hold
5. shrink the overall map size a bit (I take this with a grain of salt because they spawned long cross)

I agree with some of it, but somethings made the game more fun for me as observer. I'd like to hear your opinons, thanks!

Aunvilgod

2653 Posts

September 04 2012 16:03 GMT

#26

Remake of Match Point

Should I put LOS at the top of the giant ramp?

-NegativeZero-

United States2141 Posts

September 04 2012 19:07 GMT

#27

@EatThePath: I guess I'll leave the watchtower how it is then. The textures are mostly unfinished still - when it's done the high ground will have more light dirt and the low ground will have more dark grass, similar to the original map.

@Aunvilgod: Nice remake overall. I think the 12/6 bases are too open, especially since they're so far from the mains. Keep in mind that on the original map those bases had a choke which could be walled with a single pylon, though I wouldn't go quite so far here. Also that would help reduce the somewhat high openness of the surrounding area.

In general I think securing a 5th will be extremely difficult, especially since it is rather ambiguous which set of 4ths/5ths each player should take. For instance, it seems like the corner bases would be the logical 4ths, but then the low ground 5th after that can be sieged from the opponent's main. On the other hand, if you take the low ground base next to your main as the 4th, then your 5th will be right next to the high ground controlled by your opponent. I'm not sure what the best way to fix this would be - probably you'll need to move the low ground bases away from the adjacent mains and possibly widen the map slightly to accommodate this.

Aunvilgod

2653 Posts

September 04 2012 19:40 GMT

#28

On September 05 2012 04:07 -NegativeZero- wrote:
@Aunvilgod: Nice remake overall. I think the 12/6 bases are too open, especially since they're so far from the mains. Keep in mind that on the original map those bases had a choke which could be walled with a single pylon, though I wouldn't go quite so far here. Also that would help reduce the somewhat high openness of the surrounding area.

In general I think securing a 5th will be extremely difficult, especially since it is rather ambiguous which set of 4ths/5ths each player should take. For instance, it seems like the corner bases would be the logical 4ths, but then the low ground 5th after that can be sieged from the opponent's main. On the other hand, if you take the low ground base next to your main as the 4th, then your 5th will be right next to the high ground controlled by your opponent. I'm not sure what the best way to fix this would be - probably you'll need to move the low ground bases away from the adjacent mains and possibly widen the map slightly to accommodate this.

You obviously are not able to hold 5 bases at one time with ease, you will have to focus on one. This is a map for scrappy games which are, in my opinion, very enjoyable to watch.

I may take the 12/6 o´clock base out of siege range and make it unreachable for colossi. This is actually quite likely.

By the way, in the current picture the tower covers a bit of the highground so it easier to attack up that ramp. I could place tower in an other way so it covers even more of that highground and the big ramp as well:

Vetro

Italy13 Posts

September 04 2012 21:44 GMT

#29

Secret Dam

This is my second full fledged map, if you want to try it, it's uploaded on the EU servers.
Any comments on balance? I don't have much experience making maps so this is my main concern.

Aesthetics:

+ Show Spoiler +

Aunvilgod

2653 Posts

September 04 2012 21:57 GMT

#30

On September 05 2012 06:44 Vetro wrote:
Secret Dam

This is my second full fledged map, if you want to try it, it's uploaded on the EU servers.
Any comments on balance? I don't have much experience making maps so this is my main concern.

Aesthetics:

+ Show Spoiler +

Your map is probably Protoss favoured, due to the easy 3rd and the tight chokes. I would suggest to increase the size of ramps and the center pathway.

However I don´t see any obvoius flaws that would instantly break the map. Good job for a first map!

SiskosGoatee

Albania1482 Posts

September 05 2012 02:13 GMT

#31

On September 05 2012 06:57 Aunvilgod wrote:

Show nested quote +

I've honestly come to believe that this whole '3 easily defended bases + lots of chokes favours Protoss' idea is very outdated, especially the 3 bases. It stems from a time where Z players had a lot of troubles contesting a 3base Protoss army, nowadays most Protoss players seek to do 2base timings on the Zerg's third.

Aunvilgod

2653 Posts

September 05 2012 11:15 GMT

#32

On September 05 2012 11:13 SiskosGoatee wrote:

Show nested quote +

Usually the momentum swings into favour of the defender. While easy 3rds are less important, they still are relevant. a few sentries can shut that ramp completely down. A Protoss COULD easily go for 3 bases.

Samro225am

Germany982 Posts

September 05 2012 11:48 GMT

#33

On September 05 2012 20:15 Aunvilgod wrote:

Show nested quote +

possibly protoss won't. the push distance is not very long and quite narrow. anything after the third is really complicated to take and hold, so i do not expect too much except maxing from three bases or timing pushes.

what i would do to make this map better is quite simple. rotate third a bit clockwise, pull the nat with it in order to bring the main closer to the corner. this would give you space to have the fourth closer to the main/nat setup (main hugging). Then you decide if the fifth and sixth should belong to the left or the right side and shuffle them arround accordingly. voila, map is much more solid.

+ Show Spoiler +

after that i would suggest you rearrange the forward base and think about having more space in some areas where you want to fight with mid game armies. today players easily max from three bases quite early if they want to.

pm me if you need some ideas

Vetro

Italy13 Posts

September 05 2012 14:01 GMT

#34

Hey, thanks for the suggestions.

I was actually worried some passages might be too small for maxed army engagements. I will most likely increase the size of the center path, and have a look at some chokes as suggested by aunvilgod.

what i would do to make this map better is quite simple. rotate third a bit clockwise, pull the nat with it in order to bring the main closer to the corner. this would give you space to have the fourth closer to the main/nat setup (main hugging). Then you decide if the fifth and sixth should belong to the left or the right side and shuffle them arround accordingly. voila, map is much more solid.

The fourth indeed doesn't look very easy to hold (especially compared to the third). I will probably try to push the fourth closer to the main (and adjust the remaining 2 expos), but I don't want to discourage aggression too much.

(about the protoss: I heard many times that 3 easy bases generally favor protoss, now ,however, it doesn't look as terrible as back in 2011, that's for sure)

Syphon8

Canada298 Posts

September 05 2012 16:01 GMT

#35

Starting texture/doodad work on The Collected Works.

+ Show Spoiler +

Going for the feeling of a ruined city in the jungle. I know that the lighting isn't exactly great yet.

EDIT -- Further progress

+ Show Spoiler +

EDIT 2 -- Last one, I promise.

+ Show Spoiler +

RFDaemoniac

United States544 Posts

September 05 2012 20:28 GMT

#36

On September 06 2012 01:01 Syphon8 wrote:
Starting texture/doodad work on The Collected Works.

+ Show Spoiler +

Going for the feeling of a ruined city in the jungle. I know that the lighting isn't exactly great yet.

EDIT -- Further progress

+ Show Spoiler +

EDIT 2 -- Last one, I promise.

+ Show Spoiler +

The lighting on the 2nd edit is gorgeous. I haven't played with lighting on any of my maps, definitely something to look at.

@Siskos: There isn't a whole lot of open terrain in the map except for outside the third, which makes that third pretty hard to hold and the rest of the map feel cramped. However even though the map feels cramped, it feels huge. I like the idea of having tighter chokes in the middle and being more open around the edges, but this doesn't seem to succeed in that.

I don't see a base that I would like to take as a third as protoss, since the one with tighter chokes has the high ground behind it and is VERY close to the open third.

Why did you choose to make all expansions after the main/natural 6m2g?

EDIT: you can also make a nice overview with data->export map image

Syphon8

Canada298 Posts

September 05 2012 20:35 GMT

#37

On September 06 2012 05:28 RFDaemoniac wrote:

Show nested quote +

The lighting on the 2nd edit is gorgeous. I haven't played with lighting on any of my maps, definitely something to look at.

See, that's what I thought but a bunch of people said they hated it. It'll probably end up a mixture between 2 and 3.

Aunvilgod

2653 Posts

September 05 2012 20:42 GMT

#38

On September 06 2012 05:35 Syphon8 wrote:

Show nested quote +

See, that's what I thought but a bunch of people said they hated it. It'll probably end up a mixture between 2 and 3.

I suggest to keep it simple. Less is more.

a176

Canada6688 Posts

September 05 2012 20:51 GMT

#39

On September 04 2012 23:38 Johanaz wrote:
I had a masters ZvP test game on my new map. Both players complained about hard to hold 3rds, map too big, watchtowers not covering all attack paths. But they both liked the map and enjoyed playing on it. I had a great time observing that crazy 31 minutes game with a good deal of action.

Instead of posting an overview pic, I thought I'd try and post a replay instead. I think my style makes some people misread map and choke sizes, and more often than not I get feedback based upon wrong assumptions. Which bothers me. Which is why I'm trying this approach.

Replay: Frostfangs - Masters ZvP

In-game screens: + Show Spoiler [image heavy!] +